|
|
Member
Posts: 10
| Hallo,
WARNING; long preamble and then my question!
I'm currently teaching vinyasa yoga and am planning to do the BYTT so I can teach (part time) at the local BY studio. My goal (dream) is to teach BY at the BY studio and vinyasa yoga at another local studio. The "other" studio is also interested in eventually branching out into hot yoga, not BY but hot vinyasa yoga etc and possibly other hot yoga sequences (eg Barkin or Moksha but NOT BY).
Now, I understand that Bikram frowns upon BY teachers teaching BY in non affiliated studios and that he won't let other styles of yoga be taught in affiliated BY studios....but I'm not planning to do either. So that's OK.
But I've also been told that Bikram won't let BY teachers teach other styles of yoga in non BY studios and I'm wondering if anyone "out there" has knowledge or experience with this? I can't believe that he has the legal grounds to do this but the person who told me was very adamant about it.
Any comments?
Cheers Rosemarie
|
|
| |
|
| I'd love to have a yoga studio one day where both hot yoga and other styles of yoga will be taught. As far as I know, this is -as you already mention- not possible when you want to be a Bikram yoga teacher. For this reason I am considering other teacher training progammes. I know the 'hot yoga doctor' has one and there is a hot yoga teacher training in Thailand that both appeal to me. Of course I cannot say I am teaching Bikram yoga then, but that doesn't matter. I still may do the Bikram training afterwards (I suppose this is allowed), just to know all the different programs and styles. I am also curious to know whether it is allowed (as a Bikram teacher) to teach in both a Bikram yoga studio and other studios. Just Bikram yoga would be too restrictive for me. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 10
| Lisach - 2011-01-11 2:46 PM
I'd love to have a yoga studio one day where both hot yoga and other styles of yoga will be taught.....For this reason I am considering other teacher training progammes.......there is a hot yoga teacher training in Thailand that both appeal to me......Just Bikram yoga would be too restrictive for me.
Thanks for your thoughts Lisach.
I think a mixed hot yoga studio such as the Absolute Yoga studios in Thailand and Singapore are great. Their own hot yoga sequence is fun to do and adds elements that are not in BY (ie more hip openers, upper body poses and ab work).
cheers Rosemarie |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 10
| Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Miss J (love your blog by the way).
I'm reeling from the strictness of the TT agreement, it's even way more restrictive than I ever imagined. What I'm wondering is; if a Bikram studio can't guarantee me a full time work load, then why should I be hindered in earning my living by teaching more/other yoga elsewhere? I'm astonished that this could even be legally upheld. What a bummer (to put it mildly).
I wonder how far Bikram HQ is willing to go at pressing this point? I have heard (hearsay) of a teacher in Europe that had Bikram "legal heavies"on her doorstep for this very reason. I've written to her about it but still have to hear from her.
Feeling dejected.....Rosemarie |
|
| |
|
| @thedancingj: thanks very much for your posting! I am also still thinking what to do. I mean, I am not satisfied (enough) with just doing Bikram in my own practice. I love the audio class of the hot yoga doctor and also the absolute yoga classes. I fear that I would just find it not 'enough' to only teach Bikram yoga.
Besides, I really like the yoga doctor approach: she offers lots of modifications which have been extremely useful for me and some people I know. They are much more suitable for less flexible people / people with backpain etc. (in my humble opinion though) I also see it as a huge advantage that you don't have to recite the dialogue all the time. Well, everybody should do what he/she likes of course and I don't want to say that one is better than another, just what seems better for me (like you choose what's best for you. I also know of hot yoga studios that prefer not to have Bikram style teachers, so it works both ways, I guess. The only thing that really does not appeal to me is that once working in a Bikram studio, you cannot work in other studios anymore or offer classes of another style of yoga in that same studio. I also do not completely understand why. I think it would even be an opportunity for Bikram, as even more people would be willing to offer his style of yoga. I will keep on reading the input of all people and postpone my decision about teacher training a bit. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
 
| Does it really matter what Bikram thinks? You have freedom, so use it. If you stick to the leglalities and rules you will never be free. You may develop your own unique style of yoga which could benefit so many people and yourself. Bikram may even learn from you. Whether Bikram has legal rights or not should not stop you believing in yourself and your ability to develop yoga your way. I would totally ignore the legalities as they are not important for a good yoga practice. Enjoy your freedom! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 10
| Thanks for your rousing words Vibes. I agree with you up to a point but I also don't want a Bikram legal team on my back.
In any event, Shelley from Bikram HQ has clarified the point for me: it only applies to teaching BY in a non affiliated studio.
Thanks for your thoughts and replies everyone.
cheers Rosemarie |
|
| |
|
| Oh, SHELLY! How funny.
The written legal agreement is basically the most restrictive thing that Bikram's lawyers can write, because they want to cover all their bases. But in practice, it's more of an "honor system" and there's some wiggle room in there. I mean, when it says that you cannot vary the dialogue at all, ever, that's not really true. You have to learn and understand it, of course, but you don't just regurgitate it like a robot. And... no one's EVER going to come and check. (This is both good and bad.)
@ Lisach - Oooooh, you're bringing up so many points! I don't want to be long-winded and respond to all of them. I just want to mention one thing: at the end of your post, you wondered: Couldn't Bikram get more teachers if he let them teach all different kinds of yoga? (I paraphrase.)
Here's the thing about that: we've got lots of Bikram yoga teachers. Quantity is not a problem. But ESPECIALLY with all those teachers running around, quality control is always an issue. Bikram's trying very hard to maintain the integrity of his system, which is VERY specific, and this can get harder when you have people teaching all different styles. NOT because the other styles are necessarily "wrong" - just because they can be so different. It's like, I dunno, being a professional ballet dancer and professional tap dancer at the same time. Both are great on their own, but it's REALLY hard to do them at the same time and do a good job at both, because they are so different.
Second point, about having non-Bikram classes at Bikram studios: Another MAJOR idea behind the Bikram series is that is it the yoga equivalent of your daily mulit-vitamin. It's penicillin; it fixes everything. (Unless you're allergic, which some are.) In other words, we (the Kool-aid drinkers) believe that this series is the ONLY yoga that you NEED to do for your health. You can do other things for fun, sure - I like swing dancing, hiking, and the advanced series - but we are really selling the idea that if you commit to the 26 and 2 and give them your all, you will get everything that you need. So if this is true... why would we need to teach any other styles? Kinda undermines the whole concept. Small tangent: In Asia, they teach Bikram yoga out of gyms. On one hand, that's great, because more people can do yoga... but on the OTHER hand, man, it's gonna make it hard to convince people that they don't need to spend so much time at the gym if we teach the yoga AT THE GYM.
Oops, that was long-winded anyway. And that was the short version. Sorry. Just food for thought!! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 10
| thedancingj - 2011-01-14 1:29 PM
The written legal agreement is basically the most restrictive thing that Bikram's lawyers can write, because they want to cover all their bases. But in practice, it's more of an "honor system" and there's some wiggle room in there.
Another MAJOR idea behind the Bikram series is that is it the yoga equivalent of your daily mulit-vitamin.....we are really selling the idea that if you commit to the 26 and 2 and give them your all, you will get everything that you need. So if this is true... why would we need to teach any other styles?
Thanks for your comments Miss J.
The "wriggle room" seems to be arbitrary. I've surfed most of the websites of affiliated Bikram studios and found a few that offer more than just Bikram Yoga.
Regarding your last comment "why would we need to teach any other styles?", I want to do that so I can earn my living by teaching yoga, not just BY since that isn't a full time option. But hey, if that does become the case....I'll be happy!
As an aside; I love looking around the BY class and seeing such a wide variety of ages and so many men! At my other yoga studio, the demographics are quite different: 95% women between 20 - 40 years of age. I love how BY appeals to such a wide spectrum of the population. And, despite the effects of the ongoing economic crisis, the classes are getting fuller and fuller.
cheers people
Rosemarie |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Go there SwingDancingj! Some very good points-thanks for sharing them. However the notion that the 26 and 2 give us all we need for health is not true (have you ever taught bikram to recent stroke victims, an elderly man suffering from parkinson's disease or taught to people with ms or children with severe learning difficulties). Ofcourse Bikram offers so much and we should be grateful for this style but everyone is different. It is like a doctor prescribing antibiotics for everyone with whatever there problem - everyone is different and people with the same problem wont necessarily benefit from the same technique,vits or medicine.
It is good to teach other styles. One thing that can be done is to Go to Bikram classes daily (or as much as poss) solidly for years with different teachers and discuss anything that you are unsure about and do not sign any legal agreements that will restrict you. Then you can train in a more flexible yoga style that suits you and teach 26 and 2 and so much more (theres inifinite possibilities). Then go daily or as much as possible to other yoga/martial arts/dancing/fitness etc styles with various teachers. Do not take notes during classes, but trust your self and build up confidence to sense,feel and remember what you are doing then maybe later at home make some notes if necessary. In this way you will grow and develop and be free from legal teams etc.
Go for it!!!! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 243
| vibes it's great that you are such a free spirit, or that you think you are. But if you want to be a legally certified Bikram yoga teacher and teach at affiliated studios, you need to take the Bikram yoga training. And if you take the training you sign a contract saying you won't teach Bikram yoga at non-affiliated studios. So a potential teacher can skip the training but he/she won't be hired at a affiliated bikram studio (which is what the OP wants). Or the potential teaacher can ignore the contract he/she has signed and then teach Bikram yoga anywhere- but then is breaking the contract they signed. So you might espouse not taking legality and rules seriously, but some people might take seriously their own chosen commitments. |
|
| |
|
| I find it very interesting to read all these comments. I love the Bikram yoga series, I am just not too sure whether I REALLY like the Bikram approach enough to do the training. I would also like to have my own yoga studio one day and teach yoga the way I like it: both the Bikram series as other types of yoga. I wouldn't want to be restricted to just the Bikram series and definitely not do things that are illegal. My next question in this discussion: suppose, I do (several) other hot yoga training programmes and get an official registration which allows me to teach (hot) yoga. Will I still be allowed to teach the Bikram yoga series as long as I don't mention Bikram's name? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 243
| If you do other hot yoga training programmes you should teach those and not the bikram series, in my opinion. If you know the series and feel you can teach it, I guess there are hot yoga studios who would hire you to teach it but if you want to work for an affiliated Bikram studio, you need to be certified by bikram. I would say Lisach that if you are not sure about the bikram training- don't do it. It's insanely expensive and it is really only geared to teach and certify you to teach the bikram yoga beginner's class. Do other trainings that appeal to you, and if and/or when the bikram training calls to you- you'll know. |
|
| |
|
| Thanks yoga-addict! You are right. I was just wondering whether I can teach a class every now and then in my own studio with the same series of poses (not using the Bikram dialogue and not using his name, just his order of exercises) Will keep on looking into training programs that really appeal to me. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 243
| If it's your own studio you can do what you want, but if it is a copyright infringement is something that is up to bikram and the courts I guess. it would be like any other brand name- easyjet or starbucks for example. You would have to determine how much would need to be changed to no longer be considered his series. I don't know how many studios he can really keep track of, but there is a small risk that you would come up against some legal trouble. I'm not saying I would endorse it though! Although I know there is a lot of controversy about Bikram copyrighting his sequence- when I look at all the people copying it and using it and his dialogue (even in your post you say you want to use the exact sequence of postures) I can't help but think he has a point. |
|
| |
|
| Hi yoga-addict,
Thanks again for your reply. Well, I would like to use the sequence of postures (sometimes) and at other times other sequences. But don't get me wrong. I would just like to know what exactly will be possible and what not. I mean, if it is not legal and people consider it as 'bad', I wouldn't want to do it. I just like his sequence, but not his approach. I would be happy to go to Bikram training (just for the training would be ok, I think), if I would have a bit more freedom afterwards to use his series and also teach other series (types of yoga) every now and then. But that just doesn't seem to be the case. I guess, that's how it is! I really want to make clear that I do not think his approach is bad. I just like to do my yoga in a different way and would also like to teach in a different way. Anyway, for practicing it doesn't matter and for the moment being I am enjoying my wonderful home studio with the cd's of Bikram, Moksha, Barkan, Hot yoga doctor, Absolute yoga and some internet downloads! |
|
| |
|
| vibes - 2011-01-15 3:26 AM
However the notion that the 26 and 2 give us all we need for health is not true (have you ever taught bikram to recent stroke victims, an elderly man suffering from parkinson's disease or taught to people with ms or children with severe learning difficulties). Ofcourse Bikram offers so much and we should be grateful for this style but everyone is different.
I agree with this, actually. I said in my last post that Bikram yoga is designed to be like a prescription, like penicillin, but I ALSO admitted that some people are allergic to penicillin! There are definitely some special cases that would need special treatment. Even Bikram always told us, "each student, you have to consider a little bit different, according to the diagnosis."
At the same time, it is AMAZING how many people can benefit from the regular old Bikram series, as long as the instructor knows how to apply the series properly. I've seen people do it in wheelchairs, people who could barely move. The "special cases" are what we live for!! True, the series is not for everybody. But it works really damn well for the vast majority!
Thanks for all the thoughtful discussion, guys... |
|
| |
|
| Lisach, I'm going to back up what yoga-addict is telling you. It is not considered legal to use Bikram's exact series without using his name. So if you're going to open your own studio and you want to do the right thing (which I think that you do, because you seem like a lovely person!), you can't use the straight-up 26 and 2 sequence. You have to change it up.
If you want to experiment with different sequences, check out the original 84-posture series that the 26-and-2 series is derived from. That basically takes you back to the generation before Bikram, and then you can work from there, same way that he did. I know that some folks, like Brian (who sometimes posts here on the boards), have put together nice sequences that way. That's what Tony Sanchez did... I think Jimmy Barkan, too... and Bikram and Jimmy seem to be friends again these days... |
|
| |
|
| Hi Dancingj, thanks again for your opinion. I just want to find out what is right for me and also what the possibilities are. I would love to use Bikram's name when I do his course, but I like some other types as yoga as well! Of course, I will take a look at the original 84-posture series. I am very passionate about hot yoga, but just not as monogamous as you are ;). I will keep on reading your blog, maybe that helps! |
|
| |
|
| Love it. :) |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 10
| It remains a mystery to me, considering the legalities, copyright and contracts, that Absolute Yoga in Asia can offer the original Bikram series along with other multi yoga styles in their studios. Apparently without legal backlash / hassles from Bikram.
Are there different rules for different groups? I just wish it was more transparent instead of more confusing! |
|
| |
|
| Yes, I was thinking about this as well. And I still don't "get" it completely. It also seems that the hot yoga doctor (in Australia?) can legally offer the Bikram series. Although her dialogue is very different from the Bikram dialogue, the series seem to be the same. Do the rules only apply to the United States and Europe maybe? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 243
| Rosemarie you just need to have the discussion with the bikram studio owner. If he is okay with you teaching the absolute yoga series at the other studio, there is really no way Bikram or Bikram, Inc. is going to hunt you down and take away your certification. |
|
| |
|
| Rosemarie, you're right, Asia is set up COMPLETELY differently. They've got that big partnership with TrueFitness and a bunch of different gyms... I can't tell you very much about it, honestly. It just evolved differently over there. Don't ask me why! At some point, Bikram said "Okay, I think it is fine to do it this way," and he is the boss.
I don't think that the "hot yoga doctor'" operation is really legal or ethical. It looks like shameless infringement to me. In my opinion, the fact that she is still in business says a lot about just how difficult it is for Bikram to actually enforce his intellectual property rights. HQ is aware of "hot yoga doctor," but to my knowledge they haven't taken any action. I don't know whether it's because they're not able to (legally) or because they haven't had the resources for it.
yoga-addict - 2011-01-18 6:23 AM
Rosemarie you just need to have the discussion with the bikram studio owner. If he is okay with you teaching the absolute yoga series at the other studio, there is really no way Bikram or Bikram, Inc. is going to hunt you down and take away your certification.
Agreed. If you can keep them separate and do both of them well, and all the parties involved are ok with it, then I don't see any harm in it. It depends a lot on YOU and how well you can balance everything. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 10
| thedancingj - 2011-01-18 11:00 AM
yoga-addict - 2011-01-18 6:23 AM
Rosemarie you just need to have the discussion with the bikram studio owner. If he is okay with you teaching the absolute yoga series at the other studio, there is really no way Bikram or Bikram, Inc. is going to hunt you down and take away your certification.
Agreed. If you can keep them separate and do both of them well, and all the parties involved are ok with it, then I don't see any harm in it. It depends a lot on YOU and how well you can balance everything.
Yep, I spoke to the Bikram Yoga studio owner and he doesn't want me to teach the Absolute Yoga series at the other studio b/c it's too similar to the Bikram series. I understand his veto but ......darn!! |
|
| |
Teaching Bikram Yoga AND other yoga styles
