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| There are sure a lot of people who are awfully pious and holier than the next guy about what they eat, what they drink, what type of exercise they do and even what model car they drive.
Wouldn't we all be a lot better off if we did what worked best for oueselves at this point in our lives and were just loving and accepting of others, instead of trying so hard to be morally? superior to our fellow humans?
Adolf Hitler didn't drink or smoke and was a vegetarian. Your personal habits do not make you morally superior to anyone.
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| less talk more rock |
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Extreme Veteran
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| And concentration camp, (my grandfather told me who survived it) is comparable to the modern meat industry. Freedom is important but it is important to support the freedom of others whether human or animal. We all are one. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon | I just got back from my weekend intensive of The Yoga Sutras, Chapter III. I study with Chase Bossart of the Healing Yoga Foundation. Chase is one of the last private students of TKV Desikachar; I can’t recommend him enough for Sutra/Sanskrit study.
Anyway, Chase related a story that one of the Desikachars tell about going out to dinner with a group of Yoga students after one of their sessions. 3-4 students start to take one to task who chooses to eat meat. In their certainty of what it means to be a Yogi and the “correct” practice of Yoga, they start ridiculing that student. The Desikachar in attendance calls them out on it saying something like, “examine your language and tell me who is not practicing ahimsa.”
Incidentally, the last verse of Chapter III defines “freedom” as the ultimate state of Yoga. Not non-violence. That’s not to say freedom to do whatever we please, rather… freedom from so many afflictions that the ego and misperception wrought upon the mind. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| This thread is now getting more interesting although diverted from the original comments. Thanks Andre for your input. Id like to add, Manu the sage mentions "There is no greater sinner than one who seeks to increase the bulk of his own flesh by the flesh of other beings".B K S Iyengar writes being vegetarian is a neccessity for yoga practice.Not to mention the severe karmic consenquences. However on the other side some yogis feel flesh is essential and totally disregard karma. Onwards forwards with freedom! |
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| Manu also said:
"It is the nature of women to seduce men in this (world); for that reason the wise are never unguarded in (the company of) females."
"On the even nights sons are conceived and daughters on the uneven ones; hence a man who desires to have sons should approach his wife on the even (nights)."
"Let him void faeces and urine, in the daytime turning to the north, at night turning towards the south, during the two twilights in the same (position) as by day."
"Let him not dance, nor sing, nor play musical instruments."
"Let him, when angry, not raise a stick against another man, nor strike (anybody) except a son or a pupil; those two he may beat in order to correct them."
"Let him never eat that which has been touched by a menstruating woman, nor the food (given) by a musician, a carpenter, a hermaphrodite, an unchaste woman, or a hypocrite, nor (the food given) by a physician, a hunter, a cruel man, nor that prepared for a woman in childbed, nor that (given at a dinner) where (a guest rises) prematurely (and) sips water, nor that (given by a woman) whose ten days of impurity have not elapsed, nor (that given) by a female who has no male (relatives), nor food (given) by an actor, a tailor, or an ungrateful (man), a blacksmith, a stage-player, a goldsmith, a basket maker, by trainers of hunting dogs, publicans, a washerman, a dyer, etc etc etc"
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Extreme Veteran
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| Thanks Jimg, Manu waas a bit odd for my liking-Here are some more interesting things said by more down to earth folk and elsewhere -
In more recent times (not that long ago) Albert Einstein said "Nothing will benefit health or increase chances of survival of life on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet".
Dr Walden Bello (executive director of Food first, Institute for food and development Policy) said " The fact that there is enough food in the world for everyone.But tragically, much of the world's food and land resources are tied in producing beef and other livestock-food for the well-off, while millions of children and adults suffer from malnutrition and starvations".
Peter Singer (Australian philosopher) said "All the arguments to prove human superiority cannot shatter this hard fact: in suffering, the animals are our equals".
Buddha said "To avoid causing terror to living beings, let the disciple refrain from eating meat".
Alice Walkrer (African-American writer) said " The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men".
Mahabarata, the great epic of wisdom "One should never, in even one's heart, do an injury to cows. One should, indeed, always confer happiness on them"
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| i always void my feces towards the north during the day.
it is the only thing that makes any sense... |
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| The voiding towards the north during the day and the south at night are no-brainers (in the northern hemisphere), but I am a bit confused about the twilight rules.
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| jimg - 2010-10-18 1:25 PM
"Let him never eat that which has been touched by a menstruating woman, nor the food (given) by a musician, a carpenter, a hermaphrodite, an unchaste woman, or a hypocrite, nor (the food given) by a physician, a hunter, a cruel man, nor that prepared for a woman in childbed, nor that (given at a dinner) where (a guest rises) prematurely (and) sips water, nor that (given by a woman) whose ten days of impurity have not elapsed, nor (that given) by a female who has no male (relatives), nor food (given) by an actor, a tailor, or an ungrateful (man), a blacksmith, a stage-player, a goldsmith, a basket maker, by trainers of hunting dogs, publicans, a washerman, a dyer, etc etc etc"
These rules make eating in a restaurant kind of a problem. I'm not sure whether you could ask your waiter or waitress all these questions and get honest answers. Since 91.2% of waiters are actors and they are professional liars by trade, how can you trust their answers? How many waitresses are actually chaste these days? Isn't there also about a 16.67% chance that your waitress is menstruating?
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Did you guys ever see the movie "Return to Me"??? Minnie Driver played in it with David Dachovny...anyway, they were at this restaurant with this annoying person wanting ONLY bottled water and how she got sick on tap water etc. Minnie Driver was the waitress and was filling the order. David walked past to see her filling up the water bottle with tap water, it was hilarious because he didn't say a thing and just smiled...great movie!! |
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Extreme Veteran
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| The best rule is not to have any rules then you are free. Havent seen that film. Hear are some more great quotes. As yoga teachers we may et asked about diet. People should eat what they find is best for them. However these quotes by famous vegetarians are often good to remember as a veggie diet is suited to a healthier person and planet and will help improve ones yoga-
"he who does not value life does not deserve it" Leonardo Da Vinci (who considered the bodies of meat eaters to be burial places for the animals they eat)
"unprovoked murder" Benjamin Franklin
"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages". Thomas Edison
"Let the advocate of animal food force himself to a decisive experiment on it's fitness, and as Plutarch recommends, tear a living lamb with his teeth and, plunging his head into its vitals, slake his thirst with the streaming blood.....then,and then only, would he be consistent". Shelly
"By killing animals, man suppresses in himself,unnecessarily, the highest spiritual capacity-that of sympathy and pity towards living creatures like himself-and by violating his own feelings becomes cruel"
"A human can be healthy without killing animals for food. Therefore, if he eats meat he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite" Tolstoy
"Animals are my friends...and I dont eat my friends" George Bernard Shaw
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| vibes,
You are obviously violently opposed to violence.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| You can't put out fire with fire jimg. Come on peeps- see what vegetarian quotes you can dig up from famous or non famous people. Will be good to spread a positive message of love and compassion! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| vibes - 2010-10-19 1:59 PM
You can't put out fire with fire
Yeah, you can, actually. And Hitler was a vegetarian, I believe. Nevertheless, a nice idea to start the quote thread, as there is certainly nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| How do you put out fire with fire? So what if hitler was veggie? That was his business. It's your freedom to do what you want and eat what you want. But it's good to promote love,unity and compassion to all animals and promote cleanliness. Come on peeps!!! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Firefighters purposely set fires that burn back toward an existing fire, or use explosives to put out fires.
Using the logic of "so what if Hitler was a veggie?" then so what if any of the people listed is/was vegetarian? The fact that any famous person or even a spiritual teacher with millions of followers was vegetarian makes interesting conversation, not proof that vegetarianism is best.
The Dalai Lama wears orange robes, but that fact alone will not convince me that it is something I must do, though possibly his teachings (if his teachings included the idea that wearing orange robes was something I should strive for) and example of his virtuous life might persuade me to try it.
Again, no reason to not have a nice conversation about it on another thread. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Interesting.I put out a candle with a gentle exhalation yesterday which seemed simples than blowing the candle up or burning the other end. Although the above mentioned options sound more fun.
Isnt being a vegetarian better for an animal? Clever people like Leonardo, Albert Einstein or celebreties can appeal to people. Ask any environmentalist and they will agree that the meat industry is extremely damaging to mother earth. Even Pamela Anderson has spent much time campaigning for people to take on a vegarian diet as it is extremely cruel. Just look up Peta videos or cruel meat industry videos on Youtube, then come back to this forum with your input.
I spent much time in India with an enviromental campaigning poet who showed me not only how cruel the meat industry is but how destructive it is to our planet regardless of meat being less digestive than vegtables and beans and rice.It is certainly not peaceful to support the meat industry even the organic met industry.
Being a veggie makes you not more spirtual or less spiritual but certainly helps as you are not responsible for the murder of so many innocent animals. |
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| I totally agree that there are unnecessarily cruel aspects to the "industrial" meat industry and negative environmental aspects as well, but all life forms on this planet get energy and therefore life by consuming other life forms.
Whatever dietary choices you make, you are killing another life form. Yes, you can say that only life forms with nervous systems count, but isn't that awfully chauvinistic to say that only things that are similar to yourself matter?
Do fish, for example, feel pain? They may react to pain, but do they have the necessary brain parts to actually feel it? If they do, do they have the consciousness to be aware of that feeling? Plants also physically react to trauma or injury. Does that mean that they feel pain too?
The anthropomorphism of animals is not an advantage for either spieces.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| More plants get consumed for the meat industry than to feed humans. Its cruel on so many levels. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| vibes - I am not refuting any of your logical and sound arguments. I am not saying being an omnivore is better or good or right. Just that the fact that any individual is a vegetarian is not a useful, logical or valid reason for anyone else to become a vegetarian. Pamela Anderson, apparently a kind person and incidentally born very close to my home town, does and has done many, MANY things that I would not consider worthy of emulation, though she was pretty decent as a ballroom dancer. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Everyone has done things not worthy of emulation. But it's worth emulating promoting harmony with fellow inhabitants on earth, Peace and love. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Very true - though I tend to choose role models with more than one positive trait or behaviour. |
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| I like to choose role models that have no positive traits whatsoever. That makes it really easy for me to exceed the goodness of my role model and feel superior.
Why would you want to choose a role model that makes you feel inferior, unless picking that particular role model makes you superior to those who choose lesser role models?
When did comparing yourself to a fictional person (someone that you have no two way personal relationship with and therefore a self generated idea and not an actual person) ever make anyone a better person?
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| Regarding the vegetarian thing, if the Creator didn't want us eating animals, why did he/she make them out of meat? |
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