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Regular
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| One thing I think we can all agree on - plants are far more nutritious than animals. |
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Regular
Posts: 69
| oh - and that this discussion has little to do with bikram yoga.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| This has much to do with the thread- 'Best after bikram' As mentioned above 'one thing we can all agree on - plants are more nutritious than animals'. Thats just it. It is good to support your bikram practice with more nutrition so you can move forwards. It is best for the planet and it's survival for us all to adopt a gentle vegetarian diet. Than mankind will survive longer through not destructive eating habits. Then mankind can do bikram in more years to come.
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| vibes - 2010-10-25 6:36 AM
'one thing we can all agree on - plants are more nutritious than animals'. Thats just it.
One thing that people do not at all agree on is which foods to eat, which not to eat and why. Everyone has a study or an expert (or even a sacred book or cultural taboo) to prove their personal choice is best and everyone else's choices are either misinformed, stupid, proof of their genetic or cultural inferiority, going to destroy the planet or downright immoral. There is little or no scientific consensus about diet and there is certainly no cultural consensus.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Jimg-Are you joking??? Just incase you are not, much scientific research has gone into diet. Just for the record-
Number of US medical schools: 125.
-Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30.
-Most common cause of death in the US: heart attack.
-Average US mans risk of death from heart attack: 50%.
-Risk of average US man who eats no meat: 15%
-Risk of average US man who eats no meat,dairy or eggs: 4%.
-Number of people who die as a result of malnutrition this year -20 million (shocking I know).
-Number of people whop could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million.
-Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by people 20.
-Percentage of corn grown in US eaten by livestock 80%.
Percentage of oats grown in US eaten by livestock 95.
-Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90.
-Pounds of potatoe that can be grown on an acre 40,000.
-Pounds of beef produced on an acre 250.
-Percentage of US farmalnd devoted to beef production: 56.
-Pounds of Grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of edible flesh from feedlot beef: 16.
-3 times more fossil fuels are needed to produce a meat centred diet than a veggie diet.
-Percentage of US topsoil lost to date: 75.
-Percentage of US topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising: 85.
-Numbers of acres of US forest cleared for cropland to produce meat: 260 million (very shocking!!).
-Amount of meat imported to US annualy from central and south AMerica: 300,000,000 pounds.
-Percentage of central American children under 5 years of age who are undernourished: 75.
-Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every quarter-pound of rainforest beef: 55 square feet.
-Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1,000 per year (meat production is one of the main reasons for rainforest destruction).
-Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to less than once a week: 3.8 times.
-Increased risk of fatal prostrate cancer for men who consume meat,cheese,eggs and dairy daily vs sparingly: 3.6 times.
-Of course there are many other causes of cancer too!
-User of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the US: Livestock production.
-Amount of water used in production of the average cow: Sufficent to float a ddestroyer.
-Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat: 25.
-Gallons of water need to produce a pound of California beef: 5,000.
-Years the worlds known oil reserves would last if every human ate meat diet: 13.
-Years they would last if humans no longer ate meat: 260.
-Calories of fossil fuel expended to get 1 calorie of protein from beef: 78.
-To get 1 calorie of protein from soybeans: 2.
-Percentage of all raw materials consumed by US that is devoted to livestock: 33.
-Percentge of raw materials consumed by the US needed to produce a vegetarian diet: 2.
-Percentage of US antibiotics fed to livestock: 70.
-Response of European Economic Community to routine of feeding antibiotics to livestock: ban.
-Response of US meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support.
-Groups like the American Medical Association, the Union of Concerned Scientists have condemed the use of antibiotics in animals.
-Scientists by the score argue that antibiotic use in livestock is a real danger. Dr Thomas R. Frieden (director of the Centeres for disease Control and prevention) has found compelling evidence of a clear link between antibiotic use in animals and antibiotic resistance in humans.
-Common belief: US dept of Agriculture protects our health through meat inspection.
-Reality: fewer than 1 out of every 250,000 slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues.
-Percentage of US mothers milk containing significant levls of DDT: 99.
-Percentage of US vegetarian mothers milk containing significant levels of DDT: 8.
-Contamination of breast milk due to chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in animal products, found in meat-eating mothers as compared to vegetarian mothers: 35 times higher.
-Number of animals killed for meat per hour in the US: 660,000.
-Check out these Jimg and anyone else who likes meat-
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/chickens.aspx
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/egg-industry.aspx
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/beef-industry.aspx
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/pigs.aspx
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/turkeys.aspx
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| "Number of people who die as a result of malnutrition this year -20 million (shocking I know)."
I hope that you are aware that there is an excess of food in the world. People die of malnutrition because of an unfair and/or malfunctioning distribution system, not an overall lack of food. Much of what you said is very valid, some is quoting things out of context, but no matter what, there is still no consensus that these "facts" prove the validity of a particular diet as opposed to another. If the industrial manner of raising beef, for example, is very wasteful (and I agree that it is), so is also the manner in which corn, potatoes and apples are grown. Grass fed animals, for example, are not fed corn in feed lots and the resulting problems therefore do not exist. There are many problems in the global food production and distribution system and I think that it is important for the future of mankind to sort these problems out. All that being said, there is still no dietary consensus among people in general or among scientists. Most people make emotional decisions regarding diet and it sure appears that your vegetarianism is an emotional decision as you write about it in a very emotionally charged manner.
If "Average US mans risk of death from heart attack: 50%.
-Risk of average US man who eats no meat: 15%
-Risk of average US man who eats no meat,dairy or eggs: 4%" was plausible, then why do people in countries where little or no meat is eaten have much lower life expectancies and people who eat a Mediterranean diet which includes a lot of fish and some meat, for example, have the highest life expectancies? Also, if it were true, then at least some life insurance companies would give lower rates to vegetarians like they do to non-smokers and people who exercise or keep their blood pressure down.
Please eat what you want, but get off your soap box. Everyone else in the world has reasons that they consider just as valid as your's for their dietary decisions. If you want to convert others, set a good example and others may follow. If people think that you are really together based on how you relate to them and to the world, there is a good chance that some of them will emulate your behaviors. Otherwise, no chance.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| I dont want followers and i dont want to follow anyone else. I jus want people to be aware and have good health along with the planet supporting us in more harmony. Being vegetarian according to scientists from the University of East Anglia will certainly be of huge benefit to mankind. The report was commisioned by the Food Standards Agency.Here is an interesting clip to watch by the way-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMF5ZW2QvYg
Over fishing really hasnt been mentioned so check this out-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yov6aCqt8w
The distribution of food is a huge problem too as you say.
It is valuble for us to be aware and push gently for peace and harmony
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Here is an interesting article with interesting comments by yogis underneath, which could help anyone who consumes meat (also Bruce will prob find the girl who wrote it cute)-
http://www.unitedyogis.com/profiles/blogs/2079184:BlogPost:2909
Also the following are worth reading-
http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1977/knov77/yogaveg.shtml
http://www.discover-yoga-online.com/vegetarian-diet.html
http://www.bhakti-yoga-meditation.com/become-vegetarian.html
http://www.sivananda.org/teachings/diet/diet.html
http://www.sivananda.eu/en/diet.html
http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/news/food/ydiet.aspx
http://www.yogajournal.com/wisdom/999
http://www.yoganowmalaysia.com/veg.html
http://www.americanyogaassociation.org/Yoga%20Veg%20Diet.html
http://www.thesecretsofyoga.com/yoga-articles/Benefits-of-a-Vegetarian
http://www.allspiritfitness.com/library/features/aa120400a.shtml
We are all free and freedom is important. We should all eat as we please. However we should be aware of treading softly on Earth and looking after our Earth and it's inhabitants. LOVE |
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| If you only read and/or look for a particular point of view, you become very narrow in your outlook and tend to lose touch with reality.
If you only do, study, read about etc Bikram yoga, or Iyengar yoga or Anusara or whatever style of yoga, you become narrow and often brittle. If you only know about yoga and not other forms of exercise or other philosophies, you also become narrow. It is the same with diet, politics, economics and every other subject. If you cannot see that the opposite of what you believe may also be true, you are cheating yourself and limiting your sight. You do not grow by becoming smaller.
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Extreme Veteran
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| At school I used to make myself small and sometimes almost invisible to avoid bullies. It worked a treat and I learnt from it and avoided much violence. Also you can lean from having the flexibility to be big or small. There you go- the opposite of what you believe can be true Jimg.
I studied 3 years at a specialist college about countryside conservation and worked on farms. Also part of my studies involved me going to different parts of the UK and India and discussed with people from both sides (official people, not hippyish environmental campaigners), including MPs. All agreed that the meat industry is a huge problem for the planet. Even the people whose lives depend on meat production agreed with the negativity of it, some of whom were vegetarian too. This was nearly 20 years ago. My old friends from college tell me now the problems are even worse.
Jimg- have you looked at all the above websites I posted? Look at them carefully, then respond again if you want. You are one of the few people I have met who are unaware of the horrors of the meat industry and over fishing. I can't expect everyone to know certain details, I understand you.
Peace and Love |
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| vibes - 2010-10-26 1:51 PM
Jimg- have you looked at all the above websites I posted? Look at them carefully, then respond again if you want. You are one of the few people I have met who are unaware of the horrors of the meat industry and over fishing. I can't expect everyone to know certain details, I understand you.
Peace and Love
vibes,
You don't even understand what I have written here, so how can you understand me? Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? If so, my apologies.
jimg
Edited by jimg 2010-10-26 5:48 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| This is too funny. yep, I do understand what you wrote. As the famous vegetarian Albert Einstein said "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be". |
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| vibes,
I get it! You can understand what other people write, you just don't want to. Do you find it more fun to reply to a single word or phrase that someone writes rather than reply to the entire idea that they are trying to communicate? It really makes any kind of communication difficult.
People in India eat almost NO beef and almost NO pork yet:
http://india.gov.in/citizen/health/heart_attack.php
Heart disease is the leading cause of death in India, a country with one of the highest vegetarian populations in the world. Obviously, the lack of beef and pork causes heart disease!
You see, you can support any point of view with links on the Internet!
I can provide numerous scientific reports which prove that any consumption of alcohol is terrible for your health. I can also provide numerous scientific reports which prove that alcohol in moderation is healthy.
My point, which you seem to want to ignore, is that there is very little consensus about diet and that if you are only looking at a single point of view on any topic (especially a view outside the mainstream), you are totally missing the big picture.
Edited by jimg 2010-10-26 6:28 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| As Albert Einstein said "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be" ha ha- just noticed its a quote you print. Also Albert Einstein said "Our task must be to free ourselves....by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and it's beauty" He also said "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution of a vegetarian diet"
Now you can't argue with that!
Also remember Yoga is a science not a magical mystery tour. BKS Iyengar said "being a vegetarian is a neccessity for yoga practice".
This one is especially for Jimg-
The Dalai Lama said "People think of animals as if they were vegetables, and that is not right. We have to change the way people think about animals. I encourage the Tibetan people and all people to move toward a vegetarian diet that doesnt cause suffering" He also said "Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happines and fears pain,just as one wants to live and not to die,so do other creatures".
Here is a nice ancient buddhist text by Surangama Sutra "If one is trying to practice meditation and is still eating meat, he would be like a man closing his ears and shouting loudly, and then asserting that he heard nothing".
Leo Tolstoy said "If he be really and seriously seeking to live a good life, the first thing from which he will abstain will always be the use of animal food, because...it's use is simply immoral, as it involves the performance of an act which is contrary to moral feeling-killing".
I already know all I need to know about alcohol. I dont promote it's use just as I don't promote the unnecessary killing of animals.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Forgot to add, that aside from ancient science, modern scientists have made lots of research into diet. Especially what it does to animals and the environment.If we care about the world and the health of our children, there is so much evidence to say we should reduce and prefarably stop eating meat. Peace |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I hate to break it to ya Vibes...But, most if not ALL Tibetans, are NOT vegetarians. My guru who was the equivalent of the HH Dalai Lama, he also had an HH title, ate lots of meat. The Rinpoche underneath him used to make fun of me and told me I ate grass because I liked to eat more vegetables than meat,
Tibetans have the mindset that to eat one large animal is only 1 life and feeds lots and lots of people...very similar to the Native American and Shaman cultures of South America. While the eating of chicken and fish and smaller animals is too many lives and doesn't feed very many.
Anyhow....I think everyone can see as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the food industry is pretty &^%%$ up. So, what most of us do is we support Sustainable Agricultural practices and we do what we can to set examples. Go watch the movie FOOD, INC., it explains it all. KNOW your food sources and know your farmers...its very simple. You don't have to be a vegetarian to practice yoga. There are many many sects and forms of various types of yoga from Asia. If you feel you are not ready to give up meat..that is YOUR practice. If you feel you are ready, that is also YOUR practice. Just be damn sure that you know what the heck you are doing because there are many health aspects in today's world that you should consider as we live in a more aggressive society, and our world has changed drastically. Pantajali taught that we are suppose to go with these changes and what we are doing today is all about skillful means and survival. I can guarantee you that most people who are not used to a non-meat diet, will not last long because they will be lacking and not knowing how to take care of themselves, while others will do it naturally. You have to decide and really really be okay with it all. If not, this will become an obstacle for your practice rather than a benefit.
Just saying......
Edited by Cyndi 2010-10-26 8:55 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Jim..
It is very interesting about the Indian culture and the Heart attack risk. They use soooo much oil in their food and the GMO's in that country is very disturbing...on all levels. Indian culture has taken on the Western mentality of food and its really really scary...NO thanks to Monsanto for screwing that one up. Amazing |
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| Cyndi,
The irony about food production in India is that the "Green Revolution" (using chemical fertilizers etc) has turned India from a country with frequent food shortages and famine to a country that exports food, while at the same time making their diet less healthy so that they can live long enough to die from heart disease instead. I think that there are many aspects of the "modernization" of food production that have been very good, as well as aspects that have been very bad. I think that we should not throw out the baby with the bath water, but instead, keep the advancements while finding solutions to the problems. There are simply too many people in the world to do otherwise. We cannot go back and it would be a bad idea to stay where we are, so the only real option is to move forward in a better direction for ourselves and our environment. Nobody is willing to watch their child or loved ones die of starvation just so food can be produced in a certain way, no matter what the long term consequences.
Your friend,
Jim
Edited by jimg 2010-10-26 11:51 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| One of the best ways to go forwards for the future of the Earth as suggested by people more learned than ourselves (like Gandhi,Einstein, Vinoba Bhave, Food Standards agency officials and farmers) would be to become vegetarian. I personally know many Tibetans who eat meat. I also know some who are veggie. It is their freedom to do as they want. I want people to eat what they want no matter what impact it has on themselves, their karma or the world. Years ago I have worked on farms. You can eat what you want to practice yoga even chips, vodka, marijuana cookies, apples, bananas and coca cola - the list is endless. Many environmental problems would be solved with people moving towards a vegetarian diet. This is important for future generations- not to suffer from what we do now.
Jimg and especially Cyndi - Do you personally know the animals and the fish before they are killed and you eat them? Have you ever killed the animal yourself or been in a organically reared animal slaughter house to see where your animal has been taken away from it's children (if the children havent been taken away first and sold in a market like slaves used to be). to be killed, then drained of its blood (sometimes while still alive) then processed into meat? I dont expect you to. But would be interesting to know? I am lucky enough to be able to go to the farm where 60% of my food comes from, and my allotment and then buying the rest from a great organic based health store where you can get information about the growers. Not everyone is that lucky or feel that way inclined.I just like doing that on a personal level as I love food.
Peace and love |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| If you are what you eat, Id rather be fruit and nuts then meat any day! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Heres some more good ones for you peeps-
Everyone is a pacifist between wars. its like being a vegetarian between meals.- Colman McCarthy
If slaughter houses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian - Paul McCatney
As custodians of the planet it is our responsibility to deal with all species with kindness, love and compassion. That these animals suffer through human cruelty is beyond understanding. - Richard Gere
Enjoy! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Hi Jimg. It's worth you seeing the film 'planeat'. |
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Member
Posts: 40
| I'm not sure I could handle a beer after Bikram; might feel a bit little headed, as I'm a light weight to begin with. I usually go straight for fruit. The natural sugars help me replenish. |
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New User
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| it has a relatively high iron content as well as vitamin B and benefits of lowering a proclivity for blood clots
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Edited by mariyar 2011-06-16 11:39 PM
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Best for After Bikram
