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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | What's up with this "give you a pose" thing that Ashtanga people are into? Teach you one when you are ready, that I understand, I think.
Shiva gave us all the poses, we just have to learn them, no?
.... bg |
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | I have never heard of this. Maybe it hasn't hit the east coast yet? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
It's sort of like you can't do the next pose in the series until your teacher "gives it to you". So, you might be stopped at, say, Paschimottanasana until your teacher "gives you" Purvotonasana. Of course, I'm thinking of Mysore style classes, not led classes.
.. bg
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | I have read where someone has said "they haven't received" a pose yet, but I was thinking that along the lines of becoming "gifted" with a pose, like one day you can't do it, the next day you find that you can.
Personally, I can't afford in time or money to go to classes constantly. It would have taken me ten years to get into some of the poses (I have "given" myself) if I had to have waited for someone to give them to me lol. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | No, no, it's like you go to the Mysore class and when your teacher decides you are ready, s/he gives you the next pose in the series. Until your teacher gives it to you, you are not allowed to do the pose in class. You have to quit and start the closing sequence.
... bg
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | What about those who practice at home? Or those not able to access a shala? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
It's a really good question. I practice up 1st thru 3rd series on my own all the time. I find that if I go to a Shala, I usually create less friction if I start at primary series and then go past that by only as much the teacher seems comfortable, e.g., don't do second or third series the first time you go to a new place.
... bg |
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Good advice. One more question (OT), when do we do the first pose of intermediate? Before the closing postures (i.e., "wheel" & paschimottanasana)? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | If you are going to do Pasasana at the end of primary series, you would put it before you start backbends.
If you are going directly into intermediate series from the standing series, you would start after Parsvottonasana, i.e., skip the last few standing poses (which are really the first few poses of primary series).
.. bg
Edited by Bay Guy 2010-04-25 12:05 PM
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| So, the reason behind being handed a posture is that the student has to show that they have certain skills and dedication before they are given a posture. A few things I look for are dedication, memorization, stamina and if the student has mastered the previous poses enough for the ones that follow it. For instance, second series has a considerable amount of back bending, leg behind the head stuff, lotus stuff,and difficult inversions. If a student can't do wheel, lotus and head stand in primary, why would a teacher give them second series?
Plus, what is the hurry? Ask the teacher why you can't move on if you are really concerned about it. 99% of them will tell you. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Super, I agree that foundations are needed in order to move to more advanced versions, but what about someone who, say, is practicing all of the 3rd series arm balances easily but has trouble with the Eka Pada Sirsasana variations? Should they always stop at Ardha Matsyendrasana?
I guess I personally get hung up on the democratic idea that you can do whatever you can do, and you can try to do what you can't -- this idea is completely not in agreement with the sequential order of Ashtanga, you can't try C unless you can do B, even if you are able to do C, no?
... bg |
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | I agree with BG. And to add, which poses are "required" and which are not? You have to be able to do the arm balances before you can move on? You go right to the closing 16 poses then? Or right into savasana.
And I thought there were no rules in yoga :| |
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| Yoga Bear, there are alot of rules in Ashtanga Yoga!!!! If you don't like rules, you may want to switch to Vinyasa and their are even rules there!!!!! I am not your teacher but I will say this. I don't feel that poses have to be perfectly executed before you move on. A lot of that has to do with the teacher you chose really. I have studied with some that were very strict about when you move on and I have studied with some that were like "eh, that's good enough" and just kept giving me postures.
I appreciate both sets. There have been times where I have thought I wanted some postures and quickly got overwhelmed because I was given so many. Once you are given the postures, you have to do them every single time. And not just the ones you really liked but the ones in between that suck!
I do both Vinyasa yoga and Ashtanga. When I do Ashtanga, I stick to the system. Point Blank. I honor the tradition of it and the wisdom of those who passed it on. It is kind of like Martial Arts. You get your Black Belt when you have completed the previous belts and requirements. That is just how it is done. Good Bad or Indifferent.
When I do Vinyasa, I can do whatever postures I feel like doing. So If I want to do some stuff from Advanced A or B, then that is what I do. But I don't try and make Ashtanga into whatever I want it to be if that makes sense.
So practice that other stuff, but do it on your own time and make sure you know how to sequence so you don't hurt yourself. If sequencing is not your thing, check out an advanced Vinyasa class which usually does tons of fancy arm balances and back bends that come from more advanced Ashtanga series.
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| Woops, I forgot who asked the original question. Sorry Yoga Bear!! |
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | No, that's alright. Ex-military so rules don't bother me, just naturally critical (moon square mars).
It makes sense that it is up to the teacher, like you said, and usually the prep modification is "close enough for rock-n-roll," at least that seems to be the style taught around these parts.
But I need to get to shala early on Sunday to talk to the teacher! |
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| good luck!!!! |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Uppsala, Sweden | I would just like to add a quote to that:
«You should let a qualified teacher decide when you are ready to take on the next posture. It is difficult to judge your own progress, and ambition can easily cloud your judgment. An impartial and knowledgeable teacher is in a better position to make the right decision. Undertaking a new posture before you have mastered the previous one may lead to injury or exhaustion. In most cases, mastering the series and reaping its full benefits will end up taking longer (or never occur at all!) if you take on new postures too early. As with those who try to learn a language without a teacher, most people who teach themselves the Intermediate Series will not realize their full potential. Likewise, those who limit their input to dead media such as books (including this one) and DVDs usually end up with a shallow, superficial practice.» (p. 90, Ashtanga Yoga: The Intermediate Series; Mythology, Anatomy, and Practice, by Gregor Maehle, 2009) I know from my own experience that adding on asanas too quickly is not good, and thinking that you know better than tradition is seldom a wise idea. Still I'm totally for mixing it up with whatever you need and benefit from in your own personal practice routines.
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| I like that Iraputra. Thank you for posting that. That is what I was trying to convey but that did a far better job. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
This is all great commentary, and it shows where the Ashtanga rules may be coming from: teaching beginners from the beginning.
I think that the conclusion I am reaching is that hyper-traditional Ashtanga teachers are not flexible enough to adapt to students who have a substantial prior knowledge of yoga. That being said, I have also known many excellent Ashtanga teachers who are not so self-serious and can work with students of varied background.
... bg
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Would you please give me a pose?
