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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
 
| Hi,
I have two friends who are taking Iyengar yoga. I am devoted to bikram.
they both have tingling in their fingers which they and I believe is related to
working at a desk all day, and probably comes from their shoulders.
both Iyengar teachers gave accommodations, but did not specific recommend
any shoulder opening exercises.
does anyone know why this is? I personally am confused by Iyengar, but I know many people swear by it. I have gone to about 6 classes in 3 different studios and
have felt no effect. This is not because I'm in such great shape either. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| I'm a little unclear here - were their teachers asked to give specific poses? How long have they been taking Iyengar classes? You mention for yourself not feeling any "effects." What effects are you looking for? |
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| we'd probably have to talk to your friends...
additionally.
you won't get results just from taking classes.
you have to practice |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
| They have been taking Iyengar and practicing, one for about 6 months, the other for years. They explained the problems with tingling in their fingers and they were both given accomodations. It seems that their would be poses in Iyengar that would address the issue and that those would be offered.
I know that is bikram the half lotus helps with this issue ( i think) and I showed my one friend this pose. I felt unsure about teaching it to her because she would be doing it in a cold environment and without other poses.
When I took iyengar, The effect I wanted was to feel calmer, stretched, exhausted, lighter the next day. All of these things I get from Bikram most of the time.
I really am getting an elitist attitude about bikram, but I know that is incorrect. I just have to understand why a teacher would let a student have pain and not address it with a pose to help, if such a pose exists. I can't believe there is no pose in Iyengar to address this tingly fingers situation. maybe downward dog exacerbates the situation, and by accommodating the student in downward dog, they figure that things will improve. |
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| it is not so much a certain pose that will address a problem
rather performing certain actions or using certain proppings to support a pose
is what will alleviate such discomforts.
...
you say your friends talked to the teacher and received accommodations and still suffer from tingly fingers.
if the teacher has done what s/he can, at what point is the onus upon the practitioner to get in there and figure things out for themselves.
or perhaps to seek counsel of a more experienced teacher.
additionally,
it may not always be feasible for a teacher to stop class to address an issue in depth.
they have other students to consider.
besides, tingling in the fingers really isn't a huge deal in my mind.
if they continue to practice in earnest it will go away and be replaced by other troubling sensations
to view any sort of practice over the scope of a lifetime and think that it will be smooth sailing throughout the entirety is foolish.
if they have worked at desks for years, then they probably have many longstanding postural defects starting to come onto the radar.
i lifted weights hardcore for 6 years and my arms are a mess now. i've had all sorts of tingling, tightness and tension headaches. my teachers have been a lot of help, but it is ultimately on me to elevate my practice to a level where i can figure it out for myself.
...
depending on the shape of your friends' arms, half locust may or may not help.
armwork and downward facing dog are the things that spring to my mind...
your friends need to penetrate into the joints of their arms to see where the nervous compression is occurring and implement actions that will restructure their arms in a way that will let the nerves be cushioned on all sides rather than smashed up against bones or hardened walls of fascia.
these things don't happen immediately.
...
developing an elitist attitude about our own practices is a fairly natural thing.
i had one about bikram yoga when i practiced that for two years,
and i've had one about iyengar yoga for most of my four years in that practice.
(i'm a competitive person)
in both cases it is total bull$hit.
it is human nature to be biased towards ones own self. a function of self preservation instinct perhaps.
it is how we justify doing all sorts of whack $h!t
things that would infuriate us if someone else did them
i have read a few sources which state overemphasis on asana leads to arrogance
and i'm inclined to agree.
enjoy and benefit from whatever practices you choose
but remain rooted in those yamas and niyamas
...
a serene, flexible @$$ho!e is still an @$$*0!e |
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| dhanurasana - 2009-12-22 9:37 PM
i have read a few sources which state overemphasis on asana leads to arrogance
and i'm inclined to agree.
enjoy and benefit from whatever practices you choose
but remain rooted in those yamas and niyamas
...
An arrogant person will also use the yamas and niyamas to feed their arrogance. Both beliefs and practices are, by their very nature, arrogant. (Trying to improve yourself, whether physically or "morally" is a self centered, egotistical act that encourages arrogance.) That does not mean we need to not have any beliefs (which is impossible) nor stop our healthy (mostly) practices. We can, however, develop a higher level of balance through being more flexible and less attached to our beliefs and practices and more accepting of other's beliefs (or the lack of) and practices.
Since a certain amount of arrogance and self centeredness are necessary for life to exist and continue, it is probably more useful to try to balance them with our lives as a whole than to try to get rid of them. Since you cannot get rid of them, all you can do is pretend that you are not arrogant, egotistical and self centered and experience reality through a screen that filters these from your consciousness. Unfortunately, they are still there and because they are unconscious, they control you more strongly and in ways that you are not aware of.
If we are aware of them and accept them, we can use our arrogance and self centeredness in more positive ways for ourselves, others and our environment. We can develop enlightened self interest.
Edited by jimg 2009-12-24 3:36 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Ive read lots of things over the years that this does that and that does this. So what. The best massage therapists you could go to are arrogant-but not in a way of showing off.But in a way that they insist on their own comfort before that of the person they are treating. Because if a massage therapist is not first of all concerned with their own organization, then the client will not benefit much. You will find different types of arrogance. Some of the most brainy people of the last few hundred years where very big headed but with a good heart. Bikram and Iyengars heads are big but they seem to have good hearts. The great sivananda was a big fan of being worshipped and loved money, but gave people much joy.
Ofcourse if you do yoga for the sake of showing of then yes-this is arrogant and silly. But if you use asana as a means of self discovery then that can become a meditation practice even.
Too much water isnt good for you,Too much food isnt good for you, too much sex isnt good for you,too much sleep isnt good for you. However all these things are essential for our very existence. |
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| jimg - 2009-12-24 3:19 PM
dhanurasana - 2009-12-22 9:37 PM
i have read a few sources which state overemphasis on asana leads to arrogance
and i'm inclined to agree.
enjoy and benefit from whatever practices you choose
but remain rooted in those yamas and niyamas
...
Since a certain amount of arrogance and self centeredness are necessary for life to exist and continue, .
Your post was great but I have issue with this part. I dont believe you have to have any arrogance for life to continue. It's a rather puzzling statement. You cant actually live free of ego although you cant just wave a magic wand and make this happen. We do spiritual practises and have a guru/enlightened master for the specific purpose of purifying our ego's and experience our own consciousness and true self.
. You are correct in saying you cannot just be rid of arrogance and pretend your humble. Most people dont even recognize their arrogance. Their not aware of it's existance. Through introspection, contemplation and just doing your practises over time your arrogance with dissipate. Why do we have arrogance? It's an insecurity about ourselves. We hang on to certain aspects of our personality or achievements to give ourselves a sense of our worth. But they are unecessary.
Do you think the Dalai Lama has any arrogance? Do enlightened masters have arrogance? They seem to survive just fine without that "quality". |
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| Heh.
If I'm reading this right, I think that Miss Gogirl is distressed because she believes that her friends could eliminate their physical ailments if they started coming to Bikram yoga, but they stubbornly persist in going to a different yoga class instead.
There's nothing wrong with thinking Bikram is great; that's why you personally GO to Bikram rather than some other class. Just remember, as dhanurasana says, that almost EVERYONE feels that way about their own yoga at one time or another!
If you think that your friends absolutely MUST try Bikram, then why not invite them to come to a class with you? Tell them it will be fun! If they come, then that's great. If they decline, then let them decline. Don't get attached to it! You can never force anyone to share your point of view. If they're going to come, they will come, and they will do it in their own way and time. But a friendly invitation can be a GREAT motivator! |
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| nice summation dancing j.
first, an iyengar classroom is a classroom. you go there to learn nuts-and-bolts, and then you practice at home. so, it's a class like math class. the teacher says "here is how you do algebraic equations" and they show you and you do some class work where you can ask questions and then you are assigned homework. it's from the practice at home that you "learn" algebra. the real "work" of iyengar--and the effects such as feeling calm, balanced, etc--are to come from your home practice.
now, in other styles of yoga, my experience is that the class is designed to teach in a more "immersive" like setting. that is, it's like learning french by going to france and getting a speaking partner there (free, btw--people who want to learn english put up signs, and people who want to learn french answer, and they become language buddies). you aren't learning written grammar or how to read french--like you would in a traditional french class--but you are learning french through the experience of french. so, bikram yoga--like many other kinds--teach in this way. over time, you will pick up the nuance, possibly become literate, etc. . .but until then, you still have a balanced practice and the "feelings" attendant to the practice being "yours."
now, please know that metaphors always break down at some point, so it's a generalization and not specific. it's just how i am trying to communicate the differences. this is not to say that one way of learning is better than the other. some people like to learn french in french classes, have a pen pal and join a french club. others like to go to france (or use rosetta stone or whatever) and learn in an immersion environment. different strokes for different folks.
different learning styles really.
to the idea about what those teacher's aren't teaching them, i really can't say. because iyengar yoga is taught in levels, typically the teachers know which postures the student can and cannot do (that is, have and have not been taught). therefore, they would not give a student a posture that is above their level of education, and would modify postures within their level of education to their special needs.
those 'accommodations' could be modifications as not to cause more harm from some of the postures, and they could also be specific modifications to help heal the problem specifically. but, the student may not recognize the difference in the communication of that information to you.
often, when i hear of a specific injury or problem, i will tell the student to modify postures in certain ways. i usually tell them "with this modification, we are avoiding putting too much stress in the area as not to cause more trouble" and "this one will help alleviate the problem" but i don't always. sometimes, i'm just giving them the modifications and i expect them to do it regardless. usually because they tell me about their problem before class, and i'm teaching 15 people with 15 different needs. . .i can't always tell each person what the reasoning is behind the modification, i just give it to them. and they just do it, and over time it works.
let me emphasize that over time it works. even bikram's method would take time. they wouldn't have it 'fixed' after one or two sessions necessarily. my husband is still working on certain tingling in his fingers a year out (thoracic outlet syndrome), and he is very meticulous and doing many of the postures within the bikram sequence (just in a different sequence, with various modifications) and also doing other postures. he does these daily. his symptoms have decreased, but have not completely subsided. we have discovered new origins over time (for why this happens, what is happening in his body specifically), and are now adapting to those specialized understandings.
so, just because it isn't working in a class or two or three--whether bikram or any other style--doesn't mean it's not working, or not going to work. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
| Thank you so much dancing J. I couldn't say what I meant so clearly because of my muddled, emotional feelings. Things are getting clearer for me, partly because of the compassionate and mind broadening answers I received, and partly because I have thought about things, gotten more information and got in touch with more of my feelings.
I definitely have invited my friends to Bikram. One of them goes occasionally but because of her schedule, she goes to the yoga studio at her work. I understand that. The other person has just doesn't want to deal with the heat. She is also friends with her Iyengar instructor.
I realize that things take time and everyone does go to the yoga experience that
is appealing to them. I also realize that Bikram is difficult enough for me that I
think having frineds who go would make it more fun. That's my need for companionship and validation from my friends. I also found that the Iyengar class my friends (with the tingly fingers) attends is a beginning, they call it a restorative class. I am going to go to the regular class and see how to feels to
compliment my Bikram practice with some Iyengar.
That way, I can be with my friend and open my mind and body to a new experience. Thanks a lot for helping me with this. I had lost perspective.
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| it happens. we all get muddled.  |
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| i know right?
i'm muddled right now! |
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| i usually call it "brain clutter."
Edited by zoebird 2009-12-30 9:04 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Andrew...I want some of that Yogurt, okay?? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey GG,
I have this for you. Sometimes when I got to other Buddhist Centers, or Healing Centers, or any place that promotes healing and awareness, yadda yadda, I'm always observant about the surroundings, how people act, what they look like, etc. I'm always amazed at how most of them look and act horrible. Then I say to myself, I don't want this and it just doesn't fit the criteria of what I feel healthy and being aware should be. So, having that said...sounds like you got your own thing going on. The best thing I have found is just to accept it for what it is and do your own practice. Try not to judge it, even though its really hard. One day you may find yourself being observed upon and asked to assist. Meanwhile, we just have to keep muddling through this and just simply bee, Happy New Year!!
P.S. I once had a teacher tell me that the road to enlightenment was a very LONELY road. At that time I looked at him puzzled. This was many many years ago. Now I understand this more than ever.
Edited by Cyndi 2009-12-30 9:45 AM
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| Cyndi-
its seriously the best yogurt i've ever had in my life.
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difficult situation
