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| Howdy all,
I started practicing in N.Y about 2 and a half months ago. Now I am back home living in Sydney and have found a studio near me.
However, my question is this. Are all Bikram Yoga instructors all taught the same way?
The reason I ask is because when in N.Y I would walk away from the class feeling like I was on a high. Here in Sydney I am not getting this feeling what so ever. I have observed my practice here and am comparing to N.Y.
My conculusion is that I had a much more spiritual journey in N.Y. with my practice and I believe this is due to the instructors. It really didn't matter who my instructor was as I would walk away having the same buzzy feeling.
Here in Sydney it feels like the instructors all talk way too much... they do not use the clap to get you out and in position. They seem to run overtime and some postures are way too rushed. For example the first breathing exercise is only half the time and way too rushed. 6 counts is 6 counts but it really is only 4.
Why is there such a huge difference? Would it be rude to have the N.Y studio record one of there sessions and have it sent to me and whilst in the Sydney studio I can put it on my ipod and just listen to them and continue wiith my practice. Or what else can anyone suggest so I can get that same buzzy feeling?
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| Hi bikramlover. I am in much the same boat as you. I recently moved and changed studios, and I also feel I am getting a much different practice in my new studio than I did in the old.
Yes, the teachers are all taught the same way. I bet that there are even teachers at your new studio that were at the exact same training session as ones from your old studio. I think what happens is that everyone learns the same thing, but then it gets a bit personalized once they get home and start using it. The culture of their home studio will affect that personalization, so all of the teachers at one studio tend to have a bit of similarity.
I could also give a list of things that I miss from my old studio - the clap, too (funny we both miss that! Imagine someone going from a non-clap studio to a clap-studio - they would probably think it is crazy!), and also a shorter pranayama (6 fast seconds instead of 6 slow ones), and types of things that are discussed during class/savasana. I also was used to hearing more personal corrections (for my own practice and those around me) at my old studio, and I really miss that.
One of the butt-kicking teachers at my old studio once said: "I am not pushing you harder than any other teacher. I am only a soundtrack. YOU decide how much to push yourself." I am trying to remind myself of that sentiment as I try to not only adjust to the new studio, but actually like it. Whether the teacher claps to start Standing Bow, the pose is the same, right? We still do the same 26 postures in the same order. I am trying to concentrate on finding my focus, finding my breath, and doing my best in each posture, whether or not I like the way that the teacher has personalized their dialogue.
Good luck! I need it, too.  |
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| It's funny how attached people get to "the clap" once they've heard it. It's not really "dialogue." I don't think I've ever seen Bikram use it. And Emmy (his principal teacher) definitely doesn't clap you out of postures; she just says, "I give up, that's enough." (HAH!!)
But yeah, there is a pretty wide regional variation, in spite of the fact that all the teacher are trained the same way. Jtho is right on the money - it all comes down to studio culture.
There are some things that are never really good. Like in the extreme case, if postures are frequently being omitted because of poor timing control, then that is a problem for an individual studio to deal with (and hopefully they do so). Other things (like clap/non-clap) become a question of "personal preference." Once you get used to practicing to a certain "soundtrack" (which is such a perfect analogy), it becomes VERY difficult to adjust to a different version. Sometimes you just have to give yourself time to adjust.
Always stay true to your yoga. The 26 postures are always there for you. If you really don't like the things the teacher is saying, let that become part of your practice, too: don't let anyone steal your peace. I know it SUCKS when you can't get that great yoga "buzz" from you instructors anymore - I've been through exactly the same thing - but I bet you can find it again for yourself just by doing the yoga and remembering what you know.
But NO!! you can't listen to one teacher's class on your Ipod while taking class from another teacher! Is that what you were asking? The answer is "no," and any teacher would be well within their rights to toss you out of class if you tried something like that. What you CAN do is download Bikram's class CD off Itunes and practice to it at home sometimes. Just stick a space heater and a mirror in your bathroom, and you're in business! Can't beat Bikram yoga class delivered by Bikram himself. (Ok, some will disagree, but I like the guy and I think he's an awesome teacher.) |
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| Thanks Extreme... was a reoccuring thought. Yup you certainly answered my question there.
May have to try your suggestion.
Everything you said is so true.
The fact that this particular studio go through the first breathing exercise so fast concerns me - but will have to concentrate more on my breathing. Hopefully the buzz comes back... I even had somebody tell me that the reason I was getting the buzzy feeling in N.Y was because the was more carbon in the air...(that was interesting point of view I thought).
Am going to zone into the "what you know" part as it seems like its the only way to get the buzz back.
Thanks for your input.
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| Also very grateful to have found this forum. I asked the studio if there was a forum but were like.. oh just send us an email....
I know we all have questions from time to time but am finding the questions I am asking the teachers they just don't answer the question in depth. Weird as they are considered experts on the subject. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey BL,
This is just another example of how attached we get to things. The idea is to break habits and not get new ones started. Yoga is not about being easy and getting settled...it's about movement, change and discovering ourselves (our bodies)!! Welcome to the next level of your practice, Relax, breathe and enjoy the ride...but, again, remember not to get too settled in because something is going to come along and throw a monkey wrench into your entire sequence. Your job is to stay focused and remain disciplined through all of it, whatever it may be. Sometimes it really sucks too - I know. Don't beat yourself up when you think you've failed, because you'll get another chance soon enough,
Welcome to the forum! |
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| One more thing, bikramlover - with the shorter counts in Pranayama, I instead focus on breathing deeper. If I can't stretch it out by making it slower, then I gotta work it some other way - so I try to get deeper into my lungs (if that makes sense). I also focus on all the other parts of the posture more, too - stronger legs, reaching up higher, etc. Hope that helps! |
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Regular
Posts: 60
| It's the studio culture, the owner and the mix of teachers they have. I've been to different studios over the years and I am finding that good instructors and studios are few and far between. Some instructors can get you to push yourself and not even say a word to you -- they know how to put out positive energy. Other instructors call you out in the middle of a class and all they really do is demotivate and suck all the positive energy out of the room. Fortunately, the poses are always the same and the room is always warm, and that is what's great about the practice. |
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| Some people are naturally good teachers, some people learn to teach, some people are bad teachers no matter what. I don't think that it makes any difference whether it is a Bikram, Iyengar, Astanga, Power, Vinyasa, Anusara or non brand name studio. A yoga class is only as good as your relationship with the teacher and the material being taught. Either the teacher facilitates that relationship or they don't.
That being said, some teachers teach yoga and others lead exercise classes. Neither is right or wrong, just appropriate for what you want or not.
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| Jim its not really fair on yourself to try and bring a culture from the other side of the globe and expect it to be in your new location... each studio has a culture and the studio will cater for it.
Having said that have you approached the studio owner and talked to them about what your experiencing?
As a school teacher and a bikram practitioner, I know that there are different teaching styles and different learning styles. The one instructor has to cover everybody in the rooms different learning styles and make the practice work for everyone. Some instructors are more effective than others, many need time to learn the techniques in teaching a variety of ways, and sometimes they dont get that opportunity either... :-/
An example is 'the clap',another is 'to stay or not to stay' on a podium. My studio doesnt have a podium or headset and I much prefer it.
There are lots of studios in Sydney, have moved around and tried them all out? There are some new ones opening up too, so keep an eye out.
Pranayama is an interesting one. I asked my studio owner, (he's really a nice guy and will answer any questions about anything that concerns the students)He said ten breaths or ten minutes is the usual; but like one of the replies, whether long or short time its always the same amount of air- big. He said short time and big breath will help asthmatics alot.
I learned a long time ago that the teachers a I least liked teaching I ended up learning themost about myself from myself. And that turned my practice back into me...
;-) hope this helps you find the bikram yoga inside you |
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| Thanks everyone for the reco's. It's not that I dislike the teachers it's just that it's so so different. For example little tips on a student's positions go a long long way. i.e look 4 feet in front of you when going into balancing stick. I personally loved what the N.Y studio did and that was give us pointers at the right times. ( Or maybe that is part of the dialogue) The classes were usually about 30 plus people and they always managed to introduce themselves and welcome everyone individually before each class began. They spoke less during positions, which helps with really getting the mind still (because when your focused on the teachers voice waiting for them to call the next position and then they babble it is rather annoying) Or when teachers skip postures? It's a 90 min class why do we skip postures? If it is timed properly we shouldn't be missing any of them. It would probably help if there was a clock in the room.
I spoke to an instructor at this studio and he said that to get that buzzy feeling, that is iup to the teacher doing their job properly and connecting with the class.
Here's something else that I realised. In N.Y. they only posted the times of classes. As a newbie at the time I would ask who is taking tomorrow's class. The response was "it doesn't matter who takes the class just work on your practice". You see I never understood this until I started at this studio. And thinking back to my N.Y classes no matter who taught the class I alway's got that buzzy feeling. I brought this thinking with me to Sydney, and to be totally honest I haven't experienced that feeling yet. So - any suggestions here would be awesome please.
Where are the new studio's opening up? Am very interested.
Thanks for the tips on Pranayama. I will def. try that out tomorrow.
Yogafrong - what type of different learning styles can I trying to achieve for my next practice? My intention is to go to Bikram and improve my positions and go that one bit further in each class. What else can I incorporate.
P.s I never heard any one of my N.Y. teachers say this "I know you don't like me now".
This is what a few of the teachers have said in class. I mean are they subjectivly suggesting we don't like them? I found this type of conversation very off putting. This is the type of babble that isn't needed in a class I think... Then of course I am not a teacher - but if the teacher is suppose to connect to the class why would that type of dialogue come through? And one more thing now that we are talking about different types of teaching and learning. In N.Y I found each practice was one of awareness and much more balanced meaning ( technical and spiritual integration) although here I am finding that it is more mechanical. What can I do to get that integration? |
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| I think, personally, that some instructors want to be mini-Bikrams -- that they not only spout the dialogue but spout the rather "personal" sense of humor that Bikram spouts. We have two of these instructors at our studio. They use the SAME freaking jokes that I've seen Bikram use in youtube videos of his class and on his audio tape. All I can say is that I'll bet dollars to donuts that at some point Bikram said something like "I know that you don't like me now but this is good for you". And these teachers soak it up and spout it out along with the rest of the dialogue.
Now, I LOVE Bikram's Yoga and don't think I'll ever leave the practice, but I take this kind of stuff in context because it is usually a young instructor who is relatively new in the practice and who is usually insecure or overly cocky in their practice. Sounds like a contradiction but the insecure ones spout the dialogue because they aren't confident in their basic yoga knowledge. The cocky ones see Bikram say outrageous stuff and they think they can too cause they're Bikram trained and if the master says it, then so should they...
JMHO |
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| Hmmmmmm.
This is such a funny topic, since all we have to go by is your subjective impression of one studio compared to another!
A line like "I know you don't like me right now..." can be equally great or lame, depending on the context. There are times when I AM absolutely dying in the middle of the 2nd set of locust, so when I hear something like that, I remember that the instructor understands exactly how I'm feeling, and it helps me connect to them better. But it ALL depends on the delivery and the intent in the line. And even more, it depends on OUR state of mind when we hear it. If we are feeling uncomfortable and cranky, we think, "God, what a stupid thing to say!" If we like the instructor and are feeling good, we think, "Hah, that was pretty cute."
With absolutely no offense intended to you, bikramlover, I can't really tell what your new teachers are like. On one hand, you feel like they're not saying enough dialogue (e.g. "focus one point on your right foot in the front mirror" for balancing stick). On the other hand, you are annoyed because they talk too much and are too mechanical. I'm not saying that any of your impressions are wrong, but it's kind of a mixed message!
The biggest thing that jumped out at me in your last post was that bit at the end about missing the "technical and spiritual integration." Here's the thing about "generic" Bikram yoga: it is pure technique. All that the teachers are "supposed" to do is to give you the mechanics of the postures. There are plenty of teachers who put their own spin on top with more philosophical stuff, but that's ENTIRELY at the personal discretion of the teacher (and usually the studio).
However!! I have to say that in my personal experience, I've always had the deepest meditation experiences in the classes that are almost totally dialogue based (i.e. totally mechanical). When you release into the dialogue and allow someone else's voice to take total control your body, it has the amazing effect of totally silencing the chatter in your mind. It's incredibly spiritual, and it simply comes to you. For me, if someone tells me, "okay, mediate now," there will be almost zero effect. But if someone talks me through a yoga sequence in detail, like the instructors sometimes do, it can bring me into a powerful state of moving meditation. (Meditation doesn't mean silence - it mean "pure concentration power.") It's like the difference between hearing someone describe an experience to you - say, riding in a car - and actually HAVING the experience - they bring you into their car and start driving. This, to me, is one of the coolest things about the design of the Bikram class! |
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| That last paragraph is exactly what I am searching for... I guess the words I used may not be fit for Bikram yoga terminology. So sorry.
But you hit the nail on the head with the last paragraph. I am aware that meditation doesn't mean silence
Ok I had no idea that BY was just a technical teaching.
Let me clarify mixed message. The teachers HERE talk babble in between postures... the talk they use is very ego based - they don't give us pointers. (they did in N.Y.)
I know everyone is saying that its a different studio etc and how can I compare. How is it that all the teachers in NY(all  had different dialogues yet I managed to connect with them ...... with a feeling of elation at the end of the class.
NO offense taken. My new teachers (studio) is not as warm and inviting as my N.Y studio was. I have a whole bunch of questions - yet I get one word answers from the teachers at the studio HERE. It goes far and beyond having to compare two studios. I am a graduate in Business Management and I have some what an indepth insight as to the foundational rules that businesses should apply.
I don't know how else to explain it except am very dissapointed with the studio and eagerly awaiting my 2 month membership to expire as I will travel an hour to get to another studio (any suggestions as to what else - is available am going to try out edgecliff next) . That's the commitment I have to Bikram. At $175 a month membership there is certainly a demand for service to clients. And one of the simple rules in business is at least make an effort to answer the questions that your clients have.
Bikram Yoga is a practice and I understand that most of the practice is dependant on you, on the other hand a business is also being run and the fundamentals of a business should be applied to any studio regardless. When my membership expirs in 2 months I know I won't be going back to that studio.
Anyway thanks for the advice - am going to take the next 2 months moment by moment and well I can say a whole bunch of stuff here but instead I will say thank you for you all for your input. Yes an interesting point of view this thread was.
Makes me want to open my own studio................Maybe that's another topic.
Edited by bikramlover 2009-11-02 12:01 AM
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| thedancingj - 2009-11-01 6:25 PM
I have to say that in my personal experience, I've always had the deepest meditation experiences in the classes that are almost totally dialogue based (i.e. totally mechanical). When you release into the dialogue and allow someone else's voice to take total control your body, it has the amazing effect of totally silencing the chatter in your mind. It's incredibly spiritual, and it simply comes to you. For me, if someone tells me, "okay, mediate now," there will be almost zero effect. But if someone talks me through a yoga sequence in detail, like the instructors sometimes do, it can bring me into a powerful state of moving meditation.
You make a really good point that when the teacher tells you what to do, what actions to take, you experience feelings and "spiritual" stuff. When the teacher tells you what to feel or some "spiritual" stuff, nothing happens. I think that is because your personal reactions to the actions are your personal reactions. When you focus on the actions, the reactions just happen. When you try to focus on the reactions, you don't have the actions and are trying to make something happen instead of letting a natural thing happen. This makes sense although I'm not sure that I am expressing it very well |
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| I get what your saying jimg. It now makes even more sense. |
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| bikramlover - sounds like you really like nyc. maybe you miss it ?
i have only practised at 2 different sydney bikrams with approx 5 different teachers. i find its fine.
the point of the class is what happens to you in your body and mind, when you do the yoga, not what the teachers say or if they clap or not. let it go. or go. i find different teachers have their own pet phrases, some annoying and some not, but the difference is widest between teachers not studios. the franchise model is working ok - studios operate pretty much the same way. my opinion only. |
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| Hi Bikramlover - just jumping in again to say that my own experience with moving to another studio is VERY similiar to yours. I don't like the things the teachers talk about during savasana. I don't like that they are leaving out small parts of the dialogue. I don't like that I don't get the same feeling out of class. The welcome situation when we arrive at the studio is less friendly, and the teachers after class are less available and helpful. The points that you and I have in common here are strikingly similar. I am not experiencing leaving out postures altogether though.
Really what it has come down to me for me is the self-realization that I miss my old studio A LOT, and I am finding things to hate about my new one. When I think about it - does it really matter what the teachers and person at the front desk say to me as I walk in? That has nothing to do with the 26 postures. And, even if they leave out parts of the dialogue that I'm used to, I have heard some things differently here, and have learned new things because of it. When I think about each point that I don't like, I can turn it around into a positive, or realize that it isn't important.
What I am trying to do is be positive and let it go. This is easier said than done, but for occasional classes, or bits of classes, I can do it, and I know that it will only get better. I can't practice at my old studio anymore, so I need to accept what I have now and make the best of it. Breath, focus, and the 26+2 - that's all that really matters. I really hope you can try to do the same. (And if you are successful at it, give me some tips! ;) ) |
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| I guess coming from a studio where one of my teacher was Courtney Mace, and other fabulous teachers and then joining a studio where most of the teachers aren't so experienced makes a big difference as it impacts all my positions.
For example - if I am in a position where I am not doing it properly or I need some guidance and no guidance is given (and I don't mean only me - I mean to anyone in the class) how can your practice get better if what your doing is wrong or just needs adjusting. I came from a great studio with great instructors so I was lucky that I got great foundationalal form. What do I do in this situation? Or a newbie what do they do in this situation? Who do I speak to?
I tried the suggestions listed above. Will have to make it work for the next 7 weeks. Honestly too much energy has gone into what they do wrong. As Demartini says "there is always a balance" I certainly found the balance to my n.y experience then.
Thanks again for the tips and suggestions |
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Veteran
Posts: 149
| I did not move studios but..... my current studio hired a whole whack of people straight from training !!! every time I would go to class I would find someone new on their first class ..... very annoying  any way we all got through it. I learned to just go in with NO expectations and laugh at the situation (and with the situation) |
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| Bikramlover - if you are doing a pose wrong, and no guidance is given - that's what the dialogue is there for! All the answers are in there, though sometimes it takes us awhile to hear them, for our bodies to be able to do exactly what they say, or figure out how they apply to our bodies. |
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Regular
Posts: 60
| Bikramlover. One thing I do with the more "challenging" instructors is to establish a rapport so that I can talk to them before or after class. Especially if they keep hitting me with the same corrections. I find the instructors will at least make some helpful suggestions. |
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| bikramlover - I'm glad you "got" what I am saying. I get you, too, believe me! Despite Bikram's best efforts, it is DEFINITELY true that not all Bikram studios operate at the same level, and the studio that you came from was a very high level one. If you have the option of shopping around and checking out the other studios in your area, then go for it. An hour's commute is inconvenient, but not impossible.
jtho - You are assuming that all teachers are at least using the dialogue. Unfortunately, I've seen plenty of situations where this is NOT the case. Sounds like a lot of dialogue might be getting dropped in this situation.... sad...
amy - Take it easy on those newbie teachers... I'm gonna be one myself, soon enough! ;) All those rock-star experienced teachers have to start somewhere, right? |
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| jtho, I'm not sure I completely agree with the clarity of the dialogue. I know that triangle pose is particularly challenging. I listen to the diagram, but can't figure out the directions:
No problem with this: when your right leg bicep is at a ninety degree angle, keep your spine straight, move your right elbow inside your right knee, stretch up with your left hand.
BUT: bring your left hip forward....now here I get confused. Is forward meaning in the direction that your right knee is pointing? Or is forward meaning forward towards the wall that you were originally facing before you moved your arms?
I still can't figure it out, and I know what is EASIER but I don't know what is PROPER, and if I left it up to my body to figure out, I'd think that the easiest way MUST be the way my body wants to do this. BUT I know that the poses are supposed to be challenging so maybe the HARDER way is the way we're supposed to do this. Confusing! And I don't think that in this instance the dialogue explains what direction you need to go.
There is no clarification in the dialogue about what "forward" means. This is where an experienced instructor comes in handy.
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| "Push your left hip forward towards the mirror." Dialogue.
Edited to add: I shouldn't really be so glib, because even though this line IS in the dialogue verbatim, I've heard some instructors debating over that same question that you are asking. (My friend Roy Batty can attest to this, if he's around here somewhere!) But the instruction seems pretty clear to me.... just gets muddled in translation sometimes.
Edited by thedancingj 2009-11-03 5:31 PM
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Bikram Yoga & Instructors
