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| @vibes
Interesting offering but it didn't really address the pragmatics of your claim.
Your reference was students should not use a wall for sirsasana as they would miss...
...the process of learning to lengthen the spine rather than compress it.
So I am curious how the spine is compressed by doing Sirsasana using a wall.
Edited by purnayoga 2010-01-17 7:35 PM
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| I meant that students whether or not using a wall can compress the spine. However there will be less compression,and more lengthening of the neck without a wall. Using a wall means there will be some fear of falling (or otherwise there wont be use of the wall at all). Thats why I mentioned that much should be done on the process of learning to stand on the head ,learning to fall , learning to soften the neck, so that there is no compression of the spine. With even the slightest fear, there will be compression. Once the fear is removed you are 90 percent of the way to a safe light headstand. |
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| Coming late to this discussion but I do think that the bottom line is that you have to teach your students where their bodies are and not where your beliefs are. I will happily concede that the process of learning headstand without a wall has benefits, but as someone who teachers older, less out of shape students, many of my students could not begin to think about headstand unless there was a wall. Learning how to fall gently is not an option for some of my students.....but I want to give them the experience of headstand.
I emphasize using the whole forearm and hand strongly against the floor, using the head for balance but not for weight bearing. The wall is invaluable to help people learn how not to jam their necks. So I hope that we can all agree that yoga has room for people of all abilities? |
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| What is far more important than the headstand itself is the process of moving into it. This applies to people of all ages and abilities. It is worth getting rid of goals (I know yoga teacher trainings have goals and aims etc-but this is the sign of a poor teacher training) and enjoy/play gently with the process which could take you beyond your aims/goals. For many as mentioned above the thought of headstand induces fear. Trying to achieve a goal is a poor form of stress which limits our progress. By removing our goal (or obstacles), we can go through the goals and beyond. In other words its is of great value for students to be comfortable and go to where there comfort is and not go beyond. |
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Location: Singapore | The teachers all over the world guiding there beginners students (especially older) to perform headstand against the wall and this is a safe way to learn headstand. Every body knows that one need to move towards the final position of headstand slowly step by step and not faster. I also agree that using the whole forearm and hand strongly against the floor, using the head for balance but not for weight bearing what Seekaer101 said.
But don’t agree to encourage people start headstand without wall...............
Namaste
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| Bruce - 2010-01-14 10:53 PM
Ah man Tonmoy--the wallless headstand is my favorite party trick--everybody is amazed a big old guy like me can do it--I love doing it in the elevator at my office--the door opens am I'm standing on my head--surprize!
It's good you're not pulled back to the lower floor by the guard, lol. Maybe headstand gets us a good internal massage but that should never be tried in the elevator otherwise, guards attention will be upon us always. |
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| Well it seems to all be down to what one knows. One can only teach what one knows.So all these teachers world over who use a wall probably just dont know other techniques. In the same way Years ago some people used to think standing against a wall (not upside down) is the best way to improve posture, until better methods of improving posture were discovered. The reason you dont agree with encouraging people to learn to stand on their head without a wall is because it probably is the only way you know.You probably do not know the many ways of learning to fall out of a headstand to remove fear of headstand either. But thats fine. |
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Location: Singapore | vibes - 2010-01-18 7:04 PM
Well it seems to all be down to what one knows. One can only teach what one knows.So all these teachers world over who use a wall probably just dont know other techniques. In the same way Years ago some people used to think standing against a wall (not upside down) is the best way to improve posture, until better methods of improving posture were discovered. The reason you dont agree with encouraging people to learn to stand on their head without a wall is because it probably is the only way you know.You probably do not know the many ways of learning to fall out of a headstand to remove fear of headstand either. But thats fine.
Wait...the whole world is going to invite you to teach headstand. |
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| Id love to, many people could do with it, especially politicians,bankers to mention a few,but im not a teacher. I did learn how to do a headstand with a wall originally many years back. I even managed without a wall. Then when I went to another teacher, I had to forget all that I learnt in the past (as best as I could), and relearn, and what a huge difference it made. Also others in the class (some of whom have never done headstand without a wall) were able to safely go into headstand without the fear of falling and some who said their faces used to turn beetroot red were no longer turning so red, while being comfortable and able to lightly move in and out of the headstand. |
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| Wait-I remember Ben Gurion-first primeminister of Israel learnt to stand on his head at an elderly age. Many Indian yogis were shocked that he did it without a wall learning it at such a late stage in his life.Apparantlly he learnt it to improve hs metabolism and blood pressure. |
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Location: Washington DC | Oh vibes, you are still here in headstand. Well, I am travelling and in South America right now. So I can come to practice with you if you wnat.
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| Cool! Whereabouts? Im up for meeting up. I love South America. |
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Location: Washington DC | March 5th I am again leaving for Washington DC, US. Where are you? |
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| Im a bit of a nomad at the moment. But if planning to reach Washington or the massive south America, il let you know. |
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Location: Washington DC | I am looking forward to meet you vibes.
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| stevenj- what one earth is a spotter? why would you want to hold your legs? |
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| A spotter is someone who stands near you in gymnastics or cheerleading, etc. to make you feel more confident that you won't get hurt if you fall because they'll catch you. In this context, a spotter would take the place of a wall. You wouldn't kick up onto them, but if you began to fall over, they could help to make sure that you don't hurt yourself. |
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| In that case a spotter is a stupid thing to aid in doing a safe headstand as one is relying on an external element. Nobody will help you as much as you can help yourselves. |
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| Thanks seeker! |
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| would you also suggest learning handstand and forearm balance without a wall? |
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| Do you suggest learning to stand on your 2 feet without a wall or should we walk around with a wall to lean on when we want to stand? At the end of the day though its our freedom to do what we want to do. Simple as that my friend dhanurasana. |
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| i typically see small children learning to stand on their two feet with the assistance of a coffee table or yes, even a wall, long before they are walking unassisted.
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you didn't answer my question
Edited by dhanurasana 2010-01-29 11:51 AM
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| Lol. I answered you are free to do what you want.
The children learning to stand with the assistance of a coffee table and a wall also learn to fall as part of the process of learning to stand. |
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| This in fact is part of the process for the stage of walking in ones development. As walking is a controlled fall-a balance of stability and instability. If we were just stable, we wouldnt be able to get around, unless someone puts you in a shopping trolley and wheels you around being stable-have a go, but watch out for steep hills. |
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| vibes - 2010-01-29 5:24 AM In that case a spotter is a stupid thing to aid in doing a safe headstand as one is relying on an external element.
Somewhere in this thread you equate baby learning to stand on feet to adult learning to stand on head.
I see there are differences:
(1) Baby bone is less brittle, baby height is perhaps 1/6 of an adult. If baby is elevated to 6 feet off the ground on a table, would you still allow the baby to learn to stand at that height alone (without assistance)? Yes or No?
(2) Baby does not have danger of serious injury to the neck from falling unless they also try to stand on head. Agree?
(3) The assistance given to baby is to keep the baby on the ground. Who is saying no assistance is necessary? Agree?
Namaste |
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getting into headstand and "short legs"
