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| Hi all!
New to Bikrams (relatively), new to yoga (absolutely), new to this forum! So I thought I'd read the "back pages" of the Bikram's forum so that I wouldn't be asking questions that had been asked ad infinitum, much to the boredom of you regular posters. And something I noticed was this -- there are a number of people who started very, very PRO-Bikram who became disenchanted then downright ANTI-Bikram.
And I don't understand. I mean, I researched Bikram and his philosophy. I understood before I started that this was an intense form of yoga in a hot room. That it was repetitive. That it was taught by dialogue. That his critics call him "the McDo's of Yoga". That his business practices are along a capitalist, not spiritualist, line. That he has weird thoughts and philosophies (what's up with the ban on green??? Can't figure that one out??) That the claims of yoga in any form to be all-healing and GOOD just might not be. But I tried it, started in February, and practice 4 days a week at the minimum. And I really, really enjoy it!
Just to be clear, I'm not a KoolAid drinker. I don't agree with nor espouse alot of Bikram's philosophies. And some of his thoughts are downright irksome. But I don't take it to heart. If he wants to feel this way or believe what he believes, that is his right. I have the right to feel/believe differently. BUT I don't take it as far as an all-encompassing Bikram hate. I think the yoga has merits, that I enjoy doing it, that my local studio is amazing, and that the benefits I have felt outweigh my personal irritation at some of his philosophies. And isn't my irritation about ego? Mine in particular? And if I let this go and focus on the practice, won't I benefit in the long run?
So how DOES one go from being pro-Bikram to anti-Bikram over what seems to be in the grand scheme of things a bunch of small, egocentric irritations?
Freia
Edited by freiamaya 2009-09-10 8:19 PM
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| Sometimes I just try to remember that life is too mysterious to always be so serious. I love my Bikram Yoga or I wouldn't do it. I am at the beach loving life almost all day and then I get my fix of Bikram! Life is what we choose it to be.
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Veteran
Posts: 243
 
| If you really did read the back pages, I think you would find that most people on this forum who have become "anti-bikram", had very specific experiences that turned them off- either the teachers were bad, the studios unethical in their business practice or the teacher training was a disappointment. Maybe in your grand scheme these things seem to you to be small egocentric irritations, but I don't see how you can possibly make that judgement for other people. |
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| i think that people come across dissillusionment in a lot of ways.
i was really into hot yoga for a while, and now i'm not so much. what 'switched' me was the constant demand that without the heat, it's not beneficial "real" or whatever else yoga. the idea being that everyone needs heat and should be in heat, etc.
except that i found that many of my clients *shouldn't* be in heat, and that the studio was attracting other people who shouldn't be in heat either, but i wasn't "allowed" to tell them to try another studio that might be better for them (in fact, that i knew would be better for them). i couldn't be helpful to these people, because of my bosses prejudices and insecurities.
the other side of the coin that really got me was the issue of teacher training. around here, it went from being a situation where you were individually trained by a teacher, or the teacher-training was an in-depth, year-long program where you had to have at least 1 year of yoga experience before they'd accept you (and they defined experience as anything from one class/wk at their studio to a documented daily practice), and then you did the program and were "certified." that changed to being "anyone can be in training if they can pay for it" and training lasting 3-4 months. so, i felt that students were in an unsafe environment with these really, really inexperienced teachers.
so, for me, it got to the point where what really upset me were these "politics" and "greed." i saw it as greed because it was really about making sure that students and teachers-in-training came and paid, not about abundance in attracting the students who were right for us and training the people who were ready for training. it was about "butts in spaces" and about never really helping people. i have no problem with making money--making money is a *great* thing, but i do have a problem when a person is convincing an overweight, newly-pregnant, 37 yr old woman that heated vinyasa yoga is for her, even in that moment. or convincing a wealthy young man who has just taken his first yoga class ever that "you're a natural, a perfect candidate for our teacher training" when he has no business being there.
so, for me, it was really about this, and not about the yoga itself. the heat is fine. the asana practice is fine. the teacher training is actually pretty decent. but the underlying greed is not fine, and it was detrimental to the students. |
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| From what I've seen, there are people who become disenchanted with the overall Bikram program, but I've never heard anyone here who has a serious knock on the Bikram series. (The most criticism I've heard about the series has to do with how a few postures are taught, most notably on what it means to lock the knee.)
Here's an explanation for no green:
http://yogabootcamp.blogspot.com/2008/06/why-no-green.html
That whole blog, BTW, is quite good if you want someone's window onto the teacher training.
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| I've read most of the back pages and followed the progression, and I have found criticism of the Bikram's series (too easy without the heat) and a few issues of studio cleanliness, business practices, and poor student-teacher interactions especially with people taking offense to the prevailing teaching style. I personally have experienced the same from a local Hatha yoga studio (took my cash, I got injured and couldn't complete the beginner class, was given no refund despite being injured AND was not given an opportunity to make up the classes with then next course at the same level once healed -- cost me $175); crap teachers can be found everywheres; studios are in it for profit not for spiritual reasons.
So I guess for me, I enjoy the heat, I enjoy the predictability of the class, I tune out those teachers who are irksome or find another class, and a yoga class on its own will cost me in the neighborhood of $20 each regardless of the type of yoga taught. I DO have concerns about the teachers and their qualifications, per se, but it seems that for ALL yoga disciplines, teacher training comes down to whether you have the $$$ and whether you want to teach as opposed to real understanding of teaching philosophy and ability in the yoga discipline...200 hours is 200 hours, ya know? Here are some prerequisites for yoga teacher training:
http://www.integralyogaprograms.org/product_info.php?cPath=92&products_id=323&gclid=CP2YgqLg6ZwCFYc63AodUiyWkA#prerequisite
http://www.pranayogacollege.com/yoga-teacher-training-questions.php
Not alot of difference between these prerequisites and Bikram, except for Bikram you need a certified teacher's recommendation...
Anyways, I just find it interesting, that's all! I tend to take what I need from the class, listen to the rest but make a final decision for myself during this and any other class. And being urged to work hard isn't necessarily a bad thing nor is it confined to Bikram's Yoga -- don't y'all remember the "FEEL the BURN" mantras of Jane Fonda in the 80s? And I hear it every time I do as spin class! So I don't take offense at all. Because to me the concept is to go further than I think I can -- to push my boundaries -- and that, IMHO, is a good thing! Better than my last Hatha experience, where students had to bring a blanket and pillow to class so we could lie down and stay comfortable between asanas...
Freia
Edited by freiamaya 2009-09-11 10:32 AM
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| i'm completely with you Freia in regards to this not just being an issue of bikram or hot yoga. it's just that, in my experience, it's been with hot yoga studios and not with non-hot studios.
but let me be even more honest. there is a very popular teacher training here in our area. it says you have to have 6 months of practice at their studio before you can take the training (that's two complete sessions of classes with them), and then it's a year-long training. it is a good price (affordable), and it looks like a great curriculum.
and yet, the teachers come out of the program with no teaching skills/ability what so ever. studios around here will *not* hire these teachers because they are not ready to command a classroom. they can give you a lot of information on philosophy, but they can't put together a class or lead one to save their own lives. most of them then go on to take another training at another studio, costing them even more money and time, to learn this skill.
so, it really is a "bad" teacher training, even though from the outside or marketing or what have you, it looks great. it looks like everything you would want and more! and, it seems more cost effective and prestigious and all of those things. but, like i said, it's not what it appears.
for my own part, i am particularly critical of teacher trainings in general. i'm critical of how they're run, why they're run, who they accept, what they cover, etc. this is just how i am. i also want people to be high-quality teachers. i train teachers myself, and i know what i want from them. i will not give them a recommendation to teach until i feel that they can keep *all* of their students safe.
but, it's not a model that makes a lot of money. it takes time, it's one-on-one practically, i mean, i only currently accept 5-8 students tops in each training, and they pay a la carte. so, it does make money, but it makes about $10k per annum as opposed to $40k per every 4 months ($160k per annum for one studio here).
honestly, it's worth being critical, but not being over concerned or analysis-to-paralysis. for me, i analyse to learn. i read procedure manuals from a variety of yoga studios, spas, and retreat centers to see what might work for me. i think some policies are crazy, and others are great. so, it is true with teachers, classes, styles of yoga, etc.
i mean, there are specific people whom i say "you need to get to a hot class at least twice a week." i don't teach at a hot studio. i recommend THIS hot studio and THAT teacher and when those classes are. but, you know, it's specific, always.
and i think that if you enjoy the heat (and i do too usually), then go for it. if you enjoy the sequence, then go for it. if you enjoy what you are doing, then go for it. keep going for it, because you'll get the benefit and the rest doesn't really matter. 
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| ZB always offers such a fine perspective on things. I'll add little except to say newcomers to Bikram are much like newcommers to so many other things--a new location, a new car, a new lover--in the beginning one is often enamoured but eventually the courtship phase fades and you find yourself living in a rotten place, driving a lemon, or dating somebody just wanting you for a green card. |
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Regular
Posts: 90
| Everyone is different. Some people tire of doing the same series ad infinitum, some people have a bad experience with an individual teacher or studio, some people find another style that they prefer and some people just move on and find something that works better for them.
I got into Bikram because my wife encouraged me to go. I was into my early 30s and a smoker. I needed something to help me work exercise into my life and help me keep cigarettes away for that daunting initial period. My wife suggested Bikram because she enjoyed the yoga while dancing in a ballet company in FL. I tried it one day and found it interesting and challenging, but not the 'end all'. I did find it far more involved than working out in a gym or running, so I came back a tried it for a few months going three to four times a week. I found that the series really worked for me because of the pace of the practice, the psychological challenge of the heat and the focus required to peacefully complete an entire class. It was, and has been, a peaceful moving meditation with immense physical benefits.
A little over three years later it is still an absolutely essential part of my life. I am not able to go as often as I would like since my wife lives in another city close by that does not have a Bikram studio (though I do fault myself for not trying one of the other studios available in her city). I am not a 'follower' of anything. I practice yoga. If I tire of Bikram, then I will try something else.
I think that one of the fundamental lessons I have learned from my practice is that there is no necessary structure, school or ideology that must inform my actions to give my practice validity. I do not understand how someone can be angry at Bikram yoga. Angry at teachers? Angry at a particular studio? Angry at Bikram? Sure, but none of those things are the yoga. The yoga is what you do for yourself, connected to yourself and extending from your self outward. How can someone be angry at yoga? As long as I am keeping that connection vibrant and at the fore of my experience, I don't see how I could develop anger over anything but my own inability to just move on to something else without judgment or attachment.
Just my $.02. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of room for anger. People moving on in anger are just people who have had a bad experience in one way or another. I would wager that at the core of it, it is not the yoga that caused their anger. |
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Regular
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Location: The City of Brotherly Love | That's a fine post Carl. Thank you. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon | Bruce, I find your summation caustic. Not because you mention Bikrams, but because it's so dismissive. What is life if we can't get excited about something new? So what of it changes when you learn more? |
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| I thought it was succinct and funny. |
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| When I personally describe Bikram as the McDonalds of yoga, I really mean it as a compliment! I like that the comparison invariably causes raised eyebrows in those who know I'm a proponent of Bikram. The fact is that McDonalds provides the same, consistent product and service no matter where you go. It's dependable, offers good value, there's a limited menu and it's popular with the masses... Same with Bikram!  Even if you dislike EVERYTHING about McDonalds, you can't argue that it has broad appeal and has enjoyed international success. But maybe this is just me having some fun. 
Complaints about those who drink Bikram Kool-Aid are not an attack on the practice (I'm guilty of using the Kool-Aid metaphor on this forum following an upsetting experience) but rather a criticism of those who blindly follow rules in the absence of understanding their underlying meaning and intention, or those (as Zoebird describes) who insist that the practice is right for EVERYBODY. Fortunately, my experiences with that sort are in the minority. But yeah, they do exist so it's great to have this forum to vent from time to time and to ask for support.
Bikram yoga is strong enough to withstand some criticism, and criticism is one healthy function of this forum. There's also enduring generosity and enthusiasm here. Who has time to HATE a style of yoga? |
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| i'm always surprised my anyone who really has any time to hate. i also find internet trollers to be an interesting lot. who has time for that? LOL anyway, yeah, i think that bikram, and the style of yoga, can definitely stand it. i mean, they have for so long, why not?
and, each form has it's criticism, and that's cool, i think. |
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| Bruce, that was hilarious. But sometimes I think we can stay enamored with something or someone, if we work at it. A refrigerated lemon can last a long time :-D |
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| so can a lemon in vodka. |
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How does it happen?
