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| Hi Duffy,
You may enjoy the book "Wider Than the Sky: The Phenomenal Gift of Consciousness" by Nobel Prize winner Gerald Edelman.
Jim
PS We "think" with our brains, but that thinking is totally integrated with our endocrine systems and the rest of our bodies. The brain is not separate, but an integrated, interdependent part of the body.
Edited by jimg 2009-07-01 4:33 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | jimg - 2009-07-01 12:57 PM
"You" are both a separate organism and a part of humanity or society, which is part of the planet, which is part of the universe. It is not one or the other, but both. "You" as a separate organism has a mind, a body, an ego, a distinct life etc. It developed from two cells into a unique life form, grew and experienced things, will die, lose its separateness and be absorbed by the greater. Your mind/body is a distinct, separate organism that is very similar to (but not identical to) the minds/bodies of all the other people for the past million years. You are separate, you have different cells, different genes, different stored memories etc. It is not an illusion. You are a unique person, just like everybody else.
Yeah..so get it together you guys!!,  Then take it a little further and walla...you have YOGA...which means UNION...hello?? I love it when things are really simple. Thanks Bruce and Jim for bringing this thread back to center!! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I think we need to rename this thread to "Let's shove Bikram Kool-aid, down your throat!!!"....this is the most self-righteous and crappy thread I've ever read on yoga.com. Just because someone signs his name with 'Love' at the end, does not make him or her more of a better or supreme Yogi, much less an authority on someone's practice. This is so fake and phony...and totally NOT what yoga is about. Frankly, since coming into the Hatha yoga practice, and meeting really down to earth and fellow yogi's such as Jim and Bruce, it has enabled me to be able to live and operate in the world - so much smoother...THANKS GUYS......because we are a part of this world...we can't be airy fairy all the time and get our Karma Yoga done...sorry!! Just because we don't speak that weird fake and phony language, that only Westerner's can conjure up just to justify their silly notions of what they "think" things should be, doesn't hold any merit!! We need Warriors in this world...even the yoga realm has the Dharma protectors, 
Edited by Cyndi 2009-07-02 12:28 PM
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| Ram - 2009-07-02 8:25 AM
You do a great job explaining the biological scientific explanation of this human existence.
===>Thank you.
what you have yet to experience is that "something" beyond the human body and our physical experience.
===>I have experienced many things, all of which can be explained without using non-physical explanations. I'm sure that all that you have experienced can also be simply explained within the realm of logic and physical facts. Maybe all the physical facts are not yet known or understood, but they still exist. The earth was always a sphere and not flat, regardless of how people thought of it. Just to set the record straight: When your subjective perception is that you are outside your body and one with the universe, you are not actually physically (or in any other way) outside your body. In meditative and dream states you can subjectively experience many things that are fantasies and hallucinations. A schizophrenic actually hears voices. His ears do not hear them. His mind creates them, but they seem absolutely real to that person.
It exists in between our thoughts, at the end of our exhalations and before the beginning of our next inhalation. It exists beyond any of our thought patterns. It is yet to be able to be measured by scientific instruments. Until you have a concrete experience of it or are willing to investigate it you will always hold on to your beliefs that it doesn't exist.
===>Do you mean non-verbal intuitive perception? Non-verbal intuitive perception is a very normal part of brain activity and a necessity to the functioning of humans and other animals.
Your belief system is nowhere near abnormal.
===>Thank you (I think).
It is a conditioned belief in our society.
===>All beliefs are conditioned. You are just following another set of conditioned beliefs. You have traded the conditioned beliefs of the modern world for the conditioned beliefs of an earlier world. Just to set the record straight, I used to believe in the kind of things that you are talking about but as a result of continued multi disciplined study, learning and expanding my mind (not holding on to any particular set of conditioning or beliefs), I have come to other conclusions and continue to come to new conclusions on almost a daily basis.
It is those who live outside this belief who are thought as a little "whacky" or as Warrior Bruce says "jibberish".
===>All beliefs are "jibberish".
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Regular
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| <i>I think we need to rename this thread to "Let's shove Bikram Kool-aid, down your throat!!!".</i>
or we could take it further and rename to whole board 'Bikram Yoga Forum Run By and For People Who Can't Stand and Rarely Practice Bikram Yoga." |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | lockdaknee - 2009-07-02 1:12 PM
I think we need to rename this thread to "Let's shove Bikram Kool-aid, down your throat!!!".
or we could take it further and rename to whole board 'Bikram Yoga Forum Run By and For People Who Can't Stand and Rarely Practice Bikram Yoga."
Just so you'll know...I've done my Bikram time...and then some. Did my 90+ day challenge too...twice! The Bikram method, which consists of 26 postures are nothing but plain simple Hatha Yoga...period!! I do them quite often - every day....sometimes I do strictly Bikram, sometimes I mix it up and sometimes I just do plain Hatha Yoga. Just because some of us move onto other aspects of our practice, does not mean we can't stand or rarely practice Bikram.....its just means that we've moved beyond to deeper levels of our practice. I like Bikram and I totally respect this practice. What I don't respect is some of the ignorance that I've witnessed now and over the years.. this includes my own stupidity at times - its just part of the terrain  (yes, we all have it!!!) We have every right to be here as well...and we also have a right to share our experiences which is very vital to the process and it's just part of the process of having a mirror to look back at ya...whether you like it or not, Last time I checked, I signed onto this forum in December, 2004. Its amazing to see how we ALL have evolved through our practice since that time....even before the time I ever signed onto this forum. So there ya go.
Anyway, Happy 4th...Independence Day now has an entirely different meaning for me at this present moment...THANK GOD I'm so happy to have my freedom and Independence!! |
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| Cool on all counts - you have every right for sure!
Happy 4th 2 u 2.
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| Carson wrote: "What wierd and phony language are you talking about? English? Would you prefer I used more slang and less punctuation? Not sure where you were going with this one. Oh, and just because you say something has no merit doesn't mean that is true for everyone."
I can only reply that Yoga exploratory research points to facilitating transitional alignment that really can't fail as you are armed with remote transitional contingencies. Some think only reactionary bastards stuck in the past still go for knowledge-based reciprocal concepts; indeed, thinking a solution as to determining reality can only be acquired by observation in transitional time-phases. To actually accomplish this, enlightened research points to total transcendental projections augmented by synchronized transitional paradigm shifts.
--special thanks to the Plain English Campaign's Gobbledygook generator |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Ram - 2009-07-02 3:32 PM
Maybe someday both of us can be as cool as warrior Bruce.
I don't think anyone will ever be as cool as Warrior Bruce...EVER, |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bruce - 2009-07-02 2:13 PM
I can only reply that Yoga exploratory research points to facilitating transitional alignment that really can't fail as you are armed with remote transitional contingencies. Some think only reactionary bastards stuck in the past still go for knowledge-based reciprocal concepts; indeed, thinking a solution as to determining reality can only be acquired by observation in transitional time-phases. To actually accomplish this, enlightened research points to total transcendental projections augmented by synchronized transitional paradigm shifts.
--special thanks to the Plain English Campaign's Gobbledygook generator
Love it, Love it, Love IT!! |
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| Shall we call this quits ladies and gentlemen? I don't think we're being a lot of help to jowsweat anymore. But, perhaps we all feel better. A little spirited discussion is a fine way to celebrate Independence Day. |
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| Carson and Bruce, you are BOTH fabulous.
Carson, your posts remind me a bit of Ezra Pound, who once (tho I can't recall the poem) wrote the line:
"And I am happier than you are"
which, if you think about it, meant that he couldn't have been that happy.
I hope I'm wrong, but wanted you to know that's what I'm inferring from your postings and why, perhaps, you received a backlash.
Yeah, the ORIGINAL question was about how to respond when you witness a jackass direction from a teacher, the kind that potentially puts someone else at risk. It happens rarely, but it happens. Perhaps it was more of an etiquette question, a practical one, involving morality. Has anyone been successful in mediating such a situation? If so, how?
But YEAH, this has been an education of a different kind.
For that I thank Bruce and Carson for going at it mano a mano (just couldn't resist, Carson) and everyone else for so many thoughtful and passionate contributions. |
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| I have been the mediator Joy--on many occasions at the Bikram studio I where I used to practice. The first occasion was my very first day ever in a yoga class. I was told to "Get back in that room!" by a 5 foot tall 100lb instructor. Well, that didn't happen. We became fast friends subsequently and we both grew in our practice in the following years. She's treaching on a Pacific islad as part of the Peace Corps these days. I doubt it will surprise anyone that other occasions when the instructor decided to flex there muscles again involved me. In my early years of practice, a teacher/owner would continually overtime and I needed to get back to work. One day, she pulled me aside and said that when I left early, I disturbed others. No I replied, when you run late, you disrespect me and my life so therefore you're the cause of the disruption. She refused to listen so I continued to leave when I needed to and eventually quit attending. Anyway, the stories could go on endlessly. TO me a yoga environment is no different than anywhere else, treat others as you'd be treated and take no crap. |
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| Sheesh, I leave you all alone for like ONE week, I come back, and I have NO IDEA what is going on anymore... !! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | thedancingj - 2009-07-06 2:50 AM
Sheesh, I leave you all alone for like ONE week, I come back, and I have NO IDEA what is going on anymore... !!
I know, isn't this wild??? Be careful if you say anything to certain people here..........they'll think your angry and upset, when really they are the ones who are......and then you find yourself in a WTF?? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | CarsonZi - 2009-07-06 11:55 AM
Cyndi - 2009-07-06 6:19 AM
Be careful if you say anything to certain people here..........they'll think your angry and upset, when really they are the ones who are...... Be careful assuming that you (can) know what another is thinking or feeling. Love,
Carson
Yeah Carson...you do the same, |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Oregon | Carson: I used to argue with my friend who is a Bikrams teacher/studio owner about Bikram’s Yoga in this regards all the time.....I used to say to him, "Why doesn't Bikram add in a decent form of pranayam and some meditation and make his system at least a little bit more well rounded?" "Doesn't he realize that asanas are just one of 8 limbs?".....what I got in response was that Bikram was charged with spreading yoga to the west....and that this to him meant exposing as many people as possible to it. He didn't feel that many Westerners were ready for any kind of introspective yoga practice like meditation, so he focussed on creating and honing a system that would appeal to the maximum amount of people who could then find out about the rest of the limbs of yoga on their own as they felt driven to (please keep in mind I have never talked to Bikram personally about this and all this was relayed to me through another who spoke to Bikram on the subject. I cannot vouch for the validity of this info myself).
From what I hear from my local studio owner, I think you're spot on. Yes, he was charged with spreading Yoga to the west. But it's also more than that. Yoga simply doesn't have to be that complex. Bikram is often paraphrased as saying before you can meditate (still the mind) you need to be able to still the body (asanas). I -so- relate to that. When I attend other styles of Yoga, there is so much fidgeting and movement. One, I don't think those styles would have worked for me, and two, I don't think I would have truly found stillness. It took the intense, consistent environment/expectations and vigorous series for me to find stillness. Now, everything is opening up for me, stillness, meditation, accepting the moment.
Bikram is a lot of things I don't particularly care to associate with. But the aspects of Yoga he focuses on are really quite simple. And there's good reason for it. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Oregon | For what it's worth, when I talk of stilling the body, I'm not talking about an actual seated posture. For me, it was connecting breath to movement and finding stillness in a pose, for just 20 or 30 seconds. Meditation for me can be painting or walking, just as much my seated meditation.
I work in a residential psychiatric treatment center. I teach yoga there. These kids have so many different diagnoses, they've been abused, abandoned, been abusers or just have their brains wired differently. Regardless of how or where any one ends up on the spectrum, it's my belief we store pain and emotion in our bodies and to transcend the body, we have to acknowledge that the pain is there and how it is connected to our bodies. I am sure that there are many paths and that many can still the mind before body. I don't generally think that's the norm. |
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| for me it often goes the opposite direction. by not knowing what is coming next, the focus is intensified. with this, i study each posture individually, so there is repetition of the postures (just not necessarily the sequence) and that creates a depth and familiarity that creates a level of emotional release/comfort/security that can allow for that balance of knowledge and uncertainity that can create deep focus.
i find that when i do something too repetitive, i either become mindless (eg, not attentive) or my mind goes monkey.
but, that is also part of the discipline of a repetitive practice for me--can i do it with mindfulness and focus? that creates a lot of effort for me which can be good, thought other times, could be more work than i need to get to that state of stillness.
it really depends upon my mind that moment/day/what have you.
since i have hawk, i find that my mind is often in a state of extreme alert. i'm in a wide state of attentiveness to his needs and to his safety overall. i'm constantly opening my awareness to far paths, as best i can, because when i narrow in or "loose my mind" i call it, i tend to end up in some stupid-freaky danger (eg, today i almost walked into a moving car because i was enamored with wild turtles sunning themselves--i was carrying hawk at the time, and the car honked at me thankfully! and boy did i feel stupid).
this means that my practice has to be a real respite, and therefore the effort required for me in a repetitive class is too much. i find myself exhausted from that effort, rather than revitalized.
but, that's why there is so much variety.
btw, i enjoyed reading dancingj's blog, and one of her friend's blog who is doing or just finished the teacher training. i found myself wanting to go. how crazy is that? LOL |
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| I think the whole "blocking the door" mentality is madness. What if someone drops dead in the room because they were made to stay? Is there any responsibility taken for that from the studio? I think we are the best people to judge where we are at physically, and if you are really feeling bad and you need to leave, then leave. |
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| Alex33 - 2009-09-22 12:34 AM
I think the whole "blocking the door" mentality is madness. What if someone drops dead in the room because they were made to stay? Is there any responsibility taken for that from the studio? I think we are the best people to judge where we are at physically, and if you are really feeling bad and you need to leave, then leave.
I have never been to a studio that actually locks or 'blocks' the exit. We discourage new students from leaving in order to help them overcome their fear and mental resistances but I have never seen anyone physically prevented from leaving the room. I believe this is a common misconception. |
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| byd - 2009-09-29 9:30 PM
Alex33 - 2009-09-22 12:34 AM
I think the whole "blocking the door" mentality is madness. What if someone drops dead in the room because they were made to stay? Is there any responsibility taken for that from the studio? I think we are the best people to judge where we are at physically, and if you are really feeling bad and you need to leave, then leave.
I have never been to a studio that actually locks or 'blocks' the exit. We discourage new students from leaving in order to help them overcome their fear and mental resistances but I have never seen anyone physically prevented from leaving the room. I believe this is a common misconception.
Word. The closest I've seen to someone "blocking the door" was actually a totally legit situation. My friend was teaching, and before the class I heard her in a discussion with a girl who came like 5 times a week and ALWAYS left the room during floor series. The student was saying that she knew she was ok, and she wished she could break the habit, but she just kept on doing it. So during class, when this girl got up to make a break for it, my friend sat in front of the door, and the student turned around, went back to her mat, and finished the class without a problem. A stranger to the studio might have seen it and gone "hmmmmm...", but both the student and the teacher knew exactly what was going on.
We lock the OUTSIDE doors so people don't come in and steal you stuff from the locker room... but never the doors to the room!! |
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| Nice post. I've taken 18 classes and love it, but the phrase 'dont drink the kool-aid' has crossed my mind quite a few times.
What I love about the class is having the optional guide, but really like doing and working the poses to my own satisfaction. Any 'rules' I've been exposed to have made the hair stand up on my neck. My favorite instructors are those who aren't on you about water, wiping sweat, or pushing you repeatedly through the postures.
You get out what you put in and that is only up to the individual. |
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| I think I feel lucky for finding such a non aggressive place to do this...I was told to stick it out and lay on my back if it was too much, but jump back up and try as soon as I felt better. My first visit kicked my butt, but I stuck it out...and never felt like I was "forced" to stay in. If I am thirsty, I will take a sip of water, and was told by the instructor to do so. I drink less and less every class...but if I was EVER told not do drink water...I would be done. I am all about pushing myself to accomplish more and more...but that is myself...some people might not want to push as hard. |
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| A part of the Conference, is not suitable. Class started to encourage people of all needs. I almost throw up when I started high, had to leave class. |
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Drink your Bikram Kool-aid
