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| I recently celebrated my 80th Bikram class. My practice is normally one of the joys of my life. 
Yesterday there were two young women in the studio who were taking their very first Bikram class. They were obviously having a tough time managing the heat even before the class started, but they remained until maybe just past 2/3 or more of the class, when they both finally got up to leave. Immediately, the teacher went to stand by the large glass exit door and started strongly urging them to stay, telling them to keep their "PROMISE" to remain for 90 minutes, to "JUST STAY" in the room, talking AT them continually for about :45 seconds, which pretty much stopped the class 'cold'. These two young women appeared caught like a couple of proverbial deer in the headlights; they just continued to stand 'frozen' by the door, clearly hoping the teacher would move out of their way so they could step past her. Then the class began APPLAUDING them to comply. Totally cowed, they headed back to their mats, heads down, where they continued to look miserable to the end of the class. I waved at one at one point to encourage her to get more water as it appeared her bottle was empty, and to gesture that this was craziness and to follow her own needs (I'd actually heard one of them telling one of the owners before class that she has diabetes and was asking about health risks). But they stayed in the class. Hurrah.
After class, the teacher thanked me (she thanks me from time to time because I practice in a very committed, positive way in her class; she's a relatively new teacher, albeit a mature woman, and I'm usually glad to bring that good energy to share). She was surprised when I told her that I was actually pissed off at what I perceived as her bullying tactics, that while I love the practice and enjoy her teaching, found the bullying of the two young women to be a complete turn-off, disturbing & unacceptable, IMHO. I was in the minority.
I've witnessed lesser versions of this before when people have ventured to leave the hot room, but never to this degree. Remember the infamous Jonestown massacre, where the cult mentality took over and people willingly drank cyanide poison rather than take a stand against the madness? I felt surrounded by a minor version of that madness... the teacher, the other students, and the two silly girls who couldn't stand up for themselves. There's no way I can believe this is healthy and positive.
Yes, staying in the room can feel like an achievement the first time, even the 80th time, but one also has to respect the diversity of the class. Needs vary, capacities to withstand heat and cold vary, and there's a line that is crossed between positive encouragement and downright bullying.
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| I totally take your point... it is such a fine line that we walk sometimes.
I have given a lot of thought to this idea of the "rules" that we follow in the yoga room, and just how necessary they are. (I have been thinking about a blog post on this for some time...) A lot of studios have a lot of "rules" - stay in the room, don't wipe, don't drink outside the official water breaks, etc. And I can see the reason for them, because these are things that you don't need to do when you have a strong practice. But can you really advance someone's progress by the enforcement of arbitrary rules? I dunno about that one. (See http://xkcd.com/552/)
One of my favorite teachers says that she teaches from a place of "no rules." ("Breathe, everything else is optional." Some of you may recognize who this is.  ) And yet, the students in her class always seem to go beyond their comfort zone and achieve more than they thought they were capable of. I tried to explain this to someone and got so confused that I had to go home and think about it for a long time until I figured it out: there is a subtle but INCREDIBLY important difference between telling people what they HAVE to do and telling people what they are CAPABLE of doing.
In practice, this can mean saying things in class like, "you guys know that drinking water before this posture might give you an upset stomach, right?" instead of "this isn't time for a water break!" Or "I think that you can do this posture" instead of "everyone needs to get up and try this posture!" Or "you don't have to stay, but you might feel better if you lie down right there for a minute" instead of "you have to stay in the room!" Always empowering, never degrading.
As I understand it, the teacher's job is to tell you WHAT to do, HOW to do it, and WHY you are doing it. That should apply to classroom ettiquette as well. I don't think a student (especially a new one!!) should ever be told "you have to do it this way because this is just how we do it." They're new, they're uncomfortable, they don't know what's going on yet, they don't give a shit about some arbitrary rules! If given a good reason to try something, they may try it. If given a stupid reason, or no reason at all ("because I said so" is not a reason), then why should they bother?
Yes, it is better for new students to stay through the whole class. Of course. But there are so many good ways to keep new students from bailing... "stay here so I can keep an eye on you and make sure that you're ok," "let me get you another water," "you'll feel better if you stay and breathe for a minute, you've almost made it"... and if that doesn't work, then let them go. Maybe they've done all they can. Maybe the amount that they've done so far is ALREADY a huge accomplishment for them. WHO KNOWS?
That was a very long-winded way of saying, yes.
Edited by thedancingj 2009-06-17 3:15 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 243
 
| This is a great topic to discuss. I think about this all the time. I see a lot of first-time students make a break for it to leave the class and then see the teacher head them off and encourage them to stay or discourage them to leave, however you want to think about it. I think Juliana has hit it on the head with the teachers being in a better space if they encourage rather than discourage. It can be too much for a first timer I think- don't drink water before eagle, don't wipe your sweat, don't leave the room. When I am a teacher, no matter how much kool-aid I have drunk, I want to allow my students to think for themselves, while still giving them what's best for them. Having been to lots of classes I can certainly see the point of encouraging students to stay in the room, but having been once a student who left the room (gasp!), once I decided to leave, there really isn't anything the teacher could have said to convince me to stay (I think-she didn't actually).
I guess I'm not adding anything new with this post, but yay empowering and encouraging! |
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Veteran
Posts: 149
| I really do love this thread...good thoughts and ideas to sweat on (rather than sleep on) LOL I don't know about you but I take my yoga as a VERY personal thing. When I invite someone in my journey as a teacher I don't follow blindly. I hear, absorb and then decide. I am lucky to be a part of an encouraging and loving studio. I listen because I get the feeling of genuine concern and interest for my practice and health. not just $$$$$ good advice everyone |
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| I am delighted with the critical thinking! |
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| It honestly does help new students to at least stay in the classroom for the duration. I can understand some gentle encouragement, but to almost physically try to keep individuals in the room is uncalled for in my opinion. I've seen far more egregious lapses in classroom protocol than having the fight or flight response kick in. For example, the owners of our studio now want students' kids to start yoga early in life, so they now encourage the students to bring their kids under 12 into classes free of charge. As a result, someone has started bringing in their 5 year old who wanders the room and goes in and out of class no less than 8 times during the course of a 90 minute class. Why something is not done about this is beyond me. Now THAT qualifies as a situation where direct teacher intervention is warranted.
Beyond that, the only gray area I think should be more black and white is people leaving the room to refill on water. Why not take responsibility for yourself and bring in enough water to last you the full class?? |
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| Bruce - 2009-06-17 6:44 AM
I am delighted with the critical thinking!
Following anything or anyone (including your own beliefs from the past) without critical thinking leads only to mindless repetition. Critical thinking leads to learning, which leads to understanding, which leads to transformation.
Edited by jimg 2009-06-17 1:55 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 149
| i LOVE that last post !!! the part about questioning even your own beliefs is so invigorating |
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| I can understand why the rules exist. I have a more difficult time concentrating when people are slurping water at random times or when people leave the room. However, I really don't like the idea of someone essentially "blocking" the door. Where I practice, if there are new students the instructor asks them to please stay inthe room, rest as much as needed between poses, etc. Advises them to drink water at the designated breaks, etc. Rules are discussed prior to class starting! Then once class starts, typically she does not "lecture" the rules. People know them and most of the time comply. I have never seen someone "block the door" That would really upset my concentration! |
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| I have practiced at two different studios, each for about 6 months. At the first one, I don't think I ever saw anyone leave the room - first class or not.
At my current studio, I have seen several first-timers leave the room, and also some people who have been practicing longer leave the room. Some ppl I have seen leave the room almost every time we've been in the same class. This does happen more with some teachers than others, and each one has their own way of dealing with it (more forceful or more encouraging), but I think I have seen it happen with almost every teacher there.
What I think is the main difference - at the first studio, the teachers spend 1-on-1 time with each new student. After they fill in their forms, that day's teacher gives a quick tour of the studio, asks some questions about why they are there and their experience with yoga, and lets them know that their only goal for the day is to stay in the room. They can sit down, kneel down, lie down as much as they like, even the entire class, but try to stay in the room. There is certainly friendly contact made with each new student at my current studio and the "stay in the class" goal is shared at the beginning of every class, but I think this 1-on-1 time builds a bond with the student and teacher, and makes the student trust and like the teacher more. I think they want to stay in the room then, and they feel more supported if they just want to lie down.
I totally agree with dancingj - I think it is best when teachers take the stance of sharing with us what we are capable of (even when we don't know it ourselves - especially then), rather than telling us what we must do. I think in the majority of cases though, ppl that want to leave the room probably don't need to - they just don't know their own potential to stay. |
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| Bruce - hysterical. Thanks for the comment. I LOVED it.
Jim - YES.
jtho - Yes, EXACTLY. We all agree that it's better when people aren't "slurping water at random times" or going in and out like there's a revolving door (or letting their kids run around in circles!) but the question is about HOW the teachers can encourage this good behavior in their students. And what you describe at the first studio - one-on-one attention, honest discussion, and explanation of what's going on - is a GREAT way to make this happen. Lecturing on rules - eeehh, not so effective.
And you're so right that it is ESPECIALLY important for the teachers to help us discover how much we are capable of. One great idea that I've heard is, "it's the teacher's job to hold up a stronger image for the students until they are strong enough to hold it themselves." Lack of "rules" doesn't mean that the students won't be challenged; in fact, it can be just the opposite. It's all about balance. |
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| A good teacher (or any authority figure) actually understands the "rules" and therefore tries to implement the meaning and the understanding, not just the behavior. By doing so, that teacher shares the why for the rule and motivates the student to want to follow that rule where appropriate through understanding. Teaching is leading the student towards understanding and letting the student draw their own conclusions from that understanding.
A bad teacher has memorized the "rules" and blindly tries to enforce them. By doing so, that teacher is basically trying to force their will on the student, regardless of whether the "rule" is appropriate in this particular case. They are not teaching, they are just trying to dominate. To me, this shows a total lack of respect for the student and also for yoga.
Actually blocking a student from leaving a 105 degree room is not only disrespectful, unlawful detainment or false imprisonment is a tort, and possibly a crime.
Abusive teachers do not only exist in Bikram yoga. There are many abusive yoga teachers our there (some of them famous). It is important to call these people on their abusive behavior as it is never acceptable. Otherwise, you are encouraging it to continue. All people should be treated with kindness and respect. |
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Veteran
Posts: 149
| i think too it is important to note, abusive behavior can be anywhere. We always need to gain and maintain respect for ourselves and draw lines. |
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| As a teacher of yoga I relish students remaining in the room because they feel it is appropriate for them, they feel nourished by the practice, they feel a sense of self, they feel light permeating them through the five koshas.
A student that remains in the room from obligation, group think, peer pressure, intimidation, or obstruction...that just does not feel (to me) in alignment with the philosophy of yoga that so richly deserves to be applied.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | jimg - 2009-06-18 1:17 PM
Actually blocking a student from leaving a 105 degree room is not only disrespectful, unlawful detainment or false imprisonment is a tort, and possibly a crime.
That's what I was thinking. I would of just pushed my way pass the door....and you would of NEVER seen me again...at that studio. Not only is this ridiculous, this is insane. Sorry guys, I ain't sugar coating this one, LOL!!
Gordon is right...this is not in alignment with the principals of Yoga.
Edited by Cyndi 2009-06-22 8:08 AM
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| So many excellent points made, thanks to everyone for this discussion.
I see two principles here.
The first is about taking responsibility for your own practice. Strategies may include seeking those teachers whose manner or style serves to nourish your body and spirit, and either avoiding those teachers who vex us, or drawing a line with them, or absorbing what we need from their class while letting go of the rest i.e., finding a way for each class to be a gift.
The other principle is about when and how to assume responsibility for others. I'm culpable when I witness something that my gut knows is wrong or abusive or simply stupid, yet I don't interfere. Perhaps it's the authority-oriented Bikram practice (or the HEAT!) that turns some students--myself included at times--into lemmings. What is the best way to speak up to the nonsense such as 'bullying' the less experienced students? It surely has to be done right there and then.
In another scenario (that I just have to share), I once witnessed a teacher congratulating a newbie in front everyone at the start of her very first class for being "courageous" because she'd not brought any water to the studio. She wasn't being courageous...She didn't have a clue and very nearly passed out! He should have made sure she had hydration, not given her cudos!
Fortunately, I'm privileged to work with many wonderful teachers at my studio. The bad apples have certainly been the minority.
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| I love teachers who encourage the class to remain diciplined. By maintaining silence and trying to stay still between postures. This is part of the training in yoga.
the part of being a door cop doesnt fit into that. Encouraging people in the beginning of the class is all that is required. I too have almost thrown up when I first started Bikram and had to leave the class. No teacher would have been able to keep me in the room. |
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| jimg - 2009-06-17 1:36 PM
Following anything or anyone (including your own beliefs from the past) without critical thinking leads only to mindless repetition. Critical thinking leads to learning, which leads to understanding, which leads to transformation.
You and I have in the past disagree on this but I am putting it out there for the benefit of others.
Thinking is vastly overrated and unecessary. Instead silence and developing your intuitive abilities through practises of meditation is vastly superior to the western mode of think think think. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon | "Critical Thinking" often leads to judgment, as I've often seen here in this forum and in others I've managed over the years. "Critical Thinking" is often the term people use to defend their intrusion and assumptions about others. Their motivation is often to get other people to think "critically" all while having absolutely no knowledge of the journey of the people they so want to challenge.
My view on "thinking" in regard to Yoga is that for the most part, it is a hindrance to progress, peace and eventually, enlightenment. To paraphrase Stephen Cope from The Wisdom of Yoga, for some a whole "mountain of insight never matures into a molehill" of change. In other words, it's not the intellect or the thought, it's the doing.
When you can do the same series, in the heat, deal with the boredom and overcome the urge to leave, you can find stillness. You can overcome anything. And you don't even have to think about it. You can turn off the mind, or decide how you want to react to something. That's beautiful. |
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Veteran
Posts: 149
| well said DJ Dre .......When you can do the same series, in the heat, deal with the boredom and overcome the urge to leave, you can find stillness. You can overcome anything. And you don't even have to think about it. You can turn off the mind, or decide how you want to react to something. That's beautiful.... i LOVE this |
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| Critical thinking is self-guided, self-disciplined thinking which attempts to reason at the highest level of quality in a fair-minded way. People who think critically consistently attempt to live rationally, reasonably, empathically.
http://www.criticalthinking.org
Sounds pretty yogic to me. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I'm sorry "Active Surrender" to what??? |
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| Ram - 2009-06-27 2:51 PM
jimg - 2009-06-17 1:36 PM
Following anything or anyone (including your own beliefs from the past) without critical thinking leads only to mindless repetition. Critical thinking leads to learning, which leads to understanding, which leads to transformation.
You and I have in the past disagree on this but I am putting it out there for the benefit of others.
Thinking is vastly overrated and unecessary. Instead silence and developing your intuitive abilities through practises of meditation is vastly superior to the western mode of think think think.
Thinking is often overrated, but none the less necessary. Just because you think critically does not mean that you need to forego silence and developing your intuitive abilities any more than just because you are working on flexibility you need to forego strength. It is a question of balance between the two. Each, by itself is worthless. A balance between them is priceless. |
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| How can you surrender to "what is" when you are part of "what is"? Perception requires both a perceiver and a thing perceived. |
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| "How can you surrender to "what is" when you are part of "what is"? Perception requires both a perceiver and a thing perceived."
This leads to a paradox that seems to arise from the various forms of Cartesian dualism. We start with the notion that what cannot be perceived does not exist. Then we take your idea that perception requires a perceiver and a thing perceived. Well the perceiver can't perceive itself. Therefore, the self doesn't exist. This is not just my play on this, its a fundamental aspect of the whole Cogito, ergo sum routine (and what you've stated is basically the phenomenology analog of Cartesian dualism).
Not that I care that much about this, but I do find it amusing. |
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Drink your Bikram Kool-aid
