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| I have been practicing Iyengar yoga for a number of years, off and on (the off being related to an extremely demanding job). Female, 50's, not terribly athletic by nature, a bit overweight.
My problem is that I have never been able to kick up into handstand. My teachers claim I just afraid, which I don't think is the case. I have no problem getting up into headstand, although I can't balance in headstand without the wall. I am pretty intuitive about my body and I think my problem is that I don't have enough core strength to kick up on my own without help.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm actually thinking of supplementing my yoga practice with some sort of other program to build core strength or finally trying to get a home practice going where I can work on core-building poses like navasana which are very infrequently taught in my Iyengar classes. |
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| i dont think it is about core strength (if you hav a regular practice and do other inversions).
2 questions, (1) what is placement of your hands? (2) what does happen when you attempt to go into adho mukha vrksasana? |
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| My practice isn't as regular as it could be (some weeks 5 or 6 classes; other weeks only 1 or 2). I do what I can given the realities of my life. I wouldn't say I have a "strong" inversion practice. I do headstand whenever it is done in class -- which is not always -- and I stay up as long as I can, which is sometimes only a few minutes. Shoulderstand is somewhat easier to hold. Those are the only inversions I do.
As to placement of hands, they are near the wall in down dog position. I kick and nothing happens - I just don't get airborne. |
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| Why do you think that handstand is an important pose for a "Female, 50's, not terribly athletic by nature, a bit overweight" person?
I am not saying that your teachers are right and you are wrong, but if you don't trust them, there is a problem. I would suggest either trusting the teachers that you have, finding a new teacher that you do trust or learning to be your own teacher. Taking classes with a teacher that you don't trust doesn't work very well.
Yes, navasana is great for building core strength. There are a number of yoga poses that especially build core strength as well as some Pilates exercises that you may want to incorporate into your routine.
Starting a home practice is important. I recommend looking at yoga classes like taking piano lessons. You practice on your own daily (the real work) and then have weekly lessons to get external feedback. I think that the development of the internal feedback is the yoga while the external feedback is just to make sure that you are not getting off track.
Edited by jimg 2009-03-05 1:48 PM
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| Hi Dobe,
It sounds like you understand the root of the problem already.
It's a lot about core strength!
A handstand, done well, is a beautiful expression of core control.
The real technique for doing this is to learn not to kick up, you have to learn to lift your self up using correct balance, alignment and core strength.
This is hard to explain on a forum but I hope Nick has picked this up on another thread before and has given a proper explanation of how to do it, as much as is possible in words.
If we can't find a good link, I could try and explain.
Good luck,
Phil
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| this pose is not really something to be taught online. DO check with your teacher and express your concern/questions to them.
i VERY MUCH agree with jimG regarding home practice.
dont worry so much about "getting up" or doing the 'picture pose.' but practice alignment, hand position, and just approaching it regularly with a light heart and playful attitude. |
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Veteran
Posts: 258
 
| Given the chance let me say something about the “inner”, the psychological effect of this asana, at least the way I have felt it myself.
Handstand for me is the asana of self-confidence and self sufficiency.
I remember how strongly I was refusing to try handstand in my first yoga classes, but my teacher, a “tough” Iyengar yoga teacher, wouldn’t let me not try it.
He just came and stood next to me so that I felt secure and there I found myself, legs up the wall standing upside down, holding the weight of my body on my own arms and wrists, in this very relaxing for the back neck pose, feeling so centered, so comfortable and so self-confident.
Since then, I always start my practice with this asana, it’s the first thing I do in the morning before unfolding my mat. And also sometimes I “use” this asana as a “tool”, any time of the day, whenever I have to face “difficult circumstances”, whenever I feel I need a “dose” of self- confidence and inner strength.
As for the physical effects, I think that handstand can be very soothing to persons with problems of back-neck stiffness. I would suggest to Dobe to keep trying to get in the asana, but of course with the help of a teacher. From the moment you manage to get in the pose, once or twice or three times with the help of a teacher, then very quickly it becomes a very easy thing to do. And very pleasant. Good luck!
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| How is your breath in other inversions - headstand, shoulderstand?
You say you can hold the inversions - but what happens to your breath - does it shorten - if so how much. So much that is uncomfortable.
How do you get up into headstand? With a kick? I really think its a disservice to the student to teach shoulderstand or headstand in any way other than having both legs lift up - and yes this comes from abdomen strength.
I also think you might consider a different teacher if your teacher is telling you that you can't do it because you are afraid. In my opinion a teacher should not introduce a posture to a student until the student is ready for it - (or if introduced it should be modified for the student.) So I think one of two things is happening 1) either you are not ready for it physically or 2) you are not ready for it mentally. If the teacher is correct in assessing that you are physically ready then it is also their responsibility to help you prepare for it mentally. Telling someone they can't do it because they are afraid is not mental preparation.
And no I do not study in the Iyengar tradition.
Vic
P.S. Urdhva Prasarita Padasana is my favorite check for headstand. Careful though - you will want to counter as needed when working with this asana. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| One easy way to get into handstand is to be in a doorway. Put your hands on the floor close to the open door, then walk your feet up the door jamb on the other side. Sometimes a hallway works, too. This gives you the experience of the pose and lets your mind and body start to understand that your arms actually CAN hold your body up. My brain just didn't think my arms could do it for a long time. |
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| Core strength is needed for lifting into handstand. But for kicking up into headstand I would say not so much. I say this because my core strength is pretty lousy and I have no problem at all kicking up into handstand. I think lifting into and holding headstand requires more core strength than kicking into handstand. I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you do need to work on core strength, it never hurts - but I would keep an open mind that your teachers could be right that it's fear, at least partly, and not really core strength. Not that there's anything wrong with that. (I also don't think it's necessarily a problem when a teacher tells someone they're afraid of handstand when they believe that to be the case. I think sometimes it's quite simply the truth and often the simple truth is good.)
Certainly a degree of athleticism which you say you don't have, helps. Arm strength helps too, especially to stay in handstand. Having more arm strength might help more with any fear. |
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Location: London, England |
"My problem is that I have never been able to kick up into handstand."
Kicking up into a handstand does not require any core strength. This isn't to say that students who do kick up do not have core strength, but it does mean that they do not know how to apply it during this asana. So in a sense, at least, I'm afraid your teachers are correct.
Doing a core strength program might not be very helpful. If your teachers are getting you to kick up into a handstand, then it will never be useful.
Lastly, a yoga teacher who teaches kicking into any inversion hasn't thought it through properly, but are just following the party line. A yoga posture that uses explosive effort rather than skill, concentration, patient study, to get into the posture? That's not yoga, that's athletics.
Nick |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Just to be clear - there are at least 2 schools of thought in the kick up/lift up debate and nick falls firmly into the latter. Many others feel going into these poses one leg at a time (eventually going to lifting up with two legs) is fine. "Explosive" effort is generally not needed after learning the actions and movements of getting into the pose and, as one of my young and keen students recently pointed out, sometimes requires repairs to the dry wall.  |
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Location: London, England | Hi Glenda,
How come it's ok to go into handstand one leg at a time but not headstand and shoulderstand?  It just doesn't compute.
The reason people go up one leg at a time isn't because it is desirable to do so, it's because they cannot overcome the inertia with both feet on the floor.
Nick |
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| Yes there are two schools of thought, the right and the wrong
Being serious now, you have to look at why your doing that position.
Just being upside down for the sake of it doesn't make much sense, any inversion will do that.
But getting into and out of a handstand, and how you engage the body, is where skill, strength and grace are learnt.
tourist - 2009-03-09 3:11 PM
Just to be clear - there are at least 2 schools of thought
Edited by Phil 2009-03-10 10:45 AM
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| So, how is one supposed to get into a handstand? If you don't 'kick up' one leg at a time, what is the recommended way: lifting up from padottanasana (your head not on the floor), going from bakasana, lifting up directly from uttasana or swinging up from navasana, ala david swenson? All are incredibly difficult, if not down right impossible, for me although I can easily get into a handstand by kicking up, but I think I'm going to be practicing a long, long, long time before I can do it any other way.
Which leads me to another question, please excuse the ashtanga reference, I know this is an iyengar forum, after completing virabhadrasana B, an option in the primary series is to windmill arms to the floor and lift up into a handstand. This entrances necessitates one 'kicking up' into a handstand. In iyengar, do you go into the asana from a neutral position thereby allowing for differences in how you enter?
By the way, I agree that perhaps there are better inversions out there, but handstands, at least for me, really help with my shoulder strength and they can be fun, when you don't fall over that is 
Namaste |
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| I'll try and explain the method of lifting and why. Then Virabhadrasana.
Lifting into a handstand has a lot to do with balance.
When you have placed your hands on the floor you need to lean forward onto your hands moving your center of balance over your hands. This in it's self will lift your legs off the floor and it is a bit of a fear thing too not to fall forward.
Then you will find your core muscles engage naturally, then with practice you can find the point of balance to lift into a handstand. This is not an easy thing to explain in words.
This is as well really an Ashtanga approach to handstands.
As for the warrior sequence handstand again this is a nice example as you have to move your weight forward onto your hands in order to push your self up into the handstand. otherwise you would have to kick up if the balance is not there.
As you said you fall over.
If you come into a handstand this way you slowly learn to control the position so there is less chance of falling.
Edited by Phil 2009-03-10 4:06 PM
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| Thanks, Phil, for the pointers. I think that my problems are that of balance, strength, and fear. I can get almost all my weight on to my hands (i am barely on my tippy-toes) but cannot lift a millimeter. Would it help to lean my back against the wall (take the balance and fear out of the equation) and attempt to lift, thereby working on my strength?
I understand that ideally this would be done with a teacher but the classes I take don't offer an opportunity to work on handstand, really. Handstands are done, but it is usually within a sequence and therefore there is never enough time to work on just the logistics of rising up slowly, with control. Thus, I am trying to work on some of these things at home...safely, of course! |
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Location: London, England | Hi Carol,
Hope you don't mind me joining in. Phil is making good points. Try to make sure that learning to lift does not lead to injuries-the reason you are using the wall is because you are over-balancing. When you kick up, the wrists are hyper-extended, usually, or at least, tend to hyper-extend. When you try to learn to press into a handstand, you have to learn to balance properly on those wrists.
When you kick into a handstand, the wrists only briefly hyper-extend, and this is often not even noticeable to the practicioner. But if you try to press yourself up, weakness and bad wrist posture will contribute to you being more likely to damage the wrist. This is one of the reasons I'm against kicking up-it disguises injuries and stores them up . Kicking up is learning to move badly-even when done slowly-don't learn off gymnasts, their injuries are horrific!
A really good one is to use bars-then your wrist is in a much stronger position while you learn. You will also notice that the wall allowed you to flex your spine-now you are going to have to break done all those habits-another good reason to learn handstand properly in the first place.
Nick
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| Hi Carol,
Another point that might help.
In the Ashtanga style of sun salutes, when you jump (or lift) back from the first forward bend you should be using this technique.
As you breath in and look up you take the weight of the body onto your hands then you can gently lift your weight and glide lightly back into plank (chataranga) not crash back onto your feet.
This is the same for the jump through in the sitting part of the practice.
So the whole practice is working you up to this handstand technique.
In fact the transitions in the advanced series need you to developed this approach other wise you just can't do them .
So rather than seeing it as being a hard thing to do, it's really helping you build up to an understanding of the practice at a deeper level |
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| Thank you, Nick and Phil! I agree that kicking up does tend to arch the back and I am sure I am hyperextending my wrists though I don't notice it. I have just begun to jump back with straight legs, gliding back into chataranga, hovering for just a fraction of a second on my hands, a glorious feeling, and most of the time, am able to land softly. But I definitely see how this action develops the strength and balance needed for handstands. I can also jump through to sitting, but my legs are crossed and bent at this point. Slowly, slowly it will come. There are so many things in yoga that are 'hard' but for me, that is the practice; letting go, accepting, and sometimes, accomplishing those hard things. I never thought that I would be able to do some of the things I can do now after practicing about 3 years.
"Practice, all is coming" ...says it all!
Carol |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Just two more notes from an Iyengar perspective, as this IS the Iyengar forum.  
1) Handstand is regularly taught with the hands turned out (middle fingers parallel to the wall) which is easier on the wrists. People here often balk at that as it is not the way they learned as kids, but that is the way they teach it in India.
2) We are also taught to kick (n fact, we are taught to LIFT - as I mentioned before, explosive effort is not desired) alternating legs. So if you usually kick up with the right leg, the second handstand should be done kicking with the left and so on. |
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| how come the notion of kicking into pincha mayurasana (forearm balance) isn't so hotly contested?
i'm sure this has been covered before, but how do you get off the ground?
(pressing/lifting into handstand)
is there some small hop that is necessary?
what about foot position? close together or wide apart?
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i feel like there is some aspect of the physics i'm not getting.
but i also would wager that doing a billion vinyasas develops the things needed to press properly into handstand,
whereas statically held poses don't.
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Location: London, England | dhanurasana - 2009-03-11 6:08 PM
how come the notion of kicking into pincha mayurasana (forearm balance) isn't so hotly contested?
i'm sure this has been covered before, but how do you get off the ground?
(pressing/lifting into handstand)
is there some small hop that is necessary?
what about foot position? close together or wide apart?
...
i feel like there is some aspect of the physics i'm not getting.
but i also would wager that doing a billion vinyasas develops the things needed to press properly into handstand,
whereas statically held poses don't.
Hi Dhanurasana,
pincha mayurasana is even harder than handstand to press up in to-you have to apply the rules of the handstand press even more forcefully.
A good start in understanding the physics is to try and bring the back of the left pelvic brim towards the right shoulder. The most common error is to not make this happen. Then, as Phil mentioned, the wight continues to be borne on the feet even as you are tring to extend the hip joints-then you are forced to jump.
You are basically stabilizing the body from the hands to the sacro-iliac joints, so that successful rotation is performed at the hip joints. In this way, the abdominal muscles begin to act as a stiff spring, rather than a slinky
Nick
Will go into this in more detail if you like-have to go teach now, speak to you later
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| dhanurasana - 2009-03-11 11:08 AM
but i also would wager that doing a billion vinyasas develops the things needed to press properly into handstand,
whereas statically held poses don't.
You may be onto something here.
I do pincha mayurasana (forearm balance) frequently as I like it better than handstand (and am therefore also better at it). I place my arms, walk my feet reletively close, adjust my balance and lift one bent knee and then the other. I then straighten my legs once I am happy with my balance with bent knees.
Edited by jimg 2009-03-11 2:52 PM
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I hope that I am not practicing an illegal pincha mayurasana!!!
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Can't Kick Up Into Handstand
