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Member
Posts: 34
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand | Sun 14 Sep 08, 11:26 am
Hi All,
I have had three acupuncture sessions this month to hopefully address three problems: (1) Some kind of sciatica-like pain that crops up from my right hip and lower back and extends variously down my right leg, knee, shin and instep. It comes and goes. Also, a spasm in my mid-back on the right side that happened a few months ago when I came down from a shoulder stand improperly. Finally, and probably of more concern that those two (which seem to be improving) is a kind of general "achiness", muscle soreness, stiff joints, especially upon first getting up in the morning.
Anyway, today, the acupuncture doc said to me "I remove your damp", which I take to mean inappropriate moisture in my joints or elsewhere. He is suggesting that this "damp" is responsible for my morning stiffness. I don't speak Thai or Chinese, and the doc's English is good, but limited, so I miss a lot.
I think I understand what he was saying, but I don't quite understand the concept. Can anyone provide any insight on this "I remove your damp" business.
Thanks muchly.
Aloha,
Rex
Acupuncture |
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| I wouldn't worry about what it means. Acupuncture terms don't mean the same thing as regular English. A good book is The Web That Has No Weaver, if you are interested in more info. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | To understand dampness is not that complicated. It's more complicated to avoid it than to understand...because,
Too much dampness in the body is caused by mostly diet - i.e. eating refined foods, sugar and mucous forming foods. Too much fruit can do this as well. Eating too much fried and greasy foods, a sedentary lifestyle and yes, even heredity issues contribute to dampness. Remember, balance is everything. One sure way of removing dampness is by eating bitter foods such as lettuce, Bitter Melon/Gourd, legumes, etc. There are some really good Tradtional Chinese Herbal formulas that can help with this as well. What I would suggest is to monitor your lifestyle and adjust it accordingly. Eating RAW honey is also a good way to reduce dampness, even though it has a sweet flavor, this includes persons with edema and too much weight.
Best wishes and good luck. |
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| The terms in acupuncture are ways of describing energies & how the practitioner is balancing them. "Damp" conditions (I think) could be brought about by damp weather, perhaps, but certainly not always. So, for the Westerner, basically this means nothing, except that the acupuncturist did something for you, which he hopes will balance your body-mind-spirit energies. If he is good, you probably walked out of the treatment room with balanced pulses, which should help your overall health.
My experience of acupuncture is that (over time) it does make things feel better, although it may not exactly cure chronic conditions, in and of itself. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Dampness has nothing to do with the exterior weather conditions...although, there are times when I feel like I'm drowning when we get several days of rain, 
Dampness accumulates in the body. To transform dampness means to stimulate the action of the spleen so that it can speed up the excretion of water from the body. The Chinese believe that one reason why dampness continues to accumulate in the body is that the spleen is not strong enough to make water flow. The herbs that can transform dampness are able to correct the conditions of the spleen. Another way is to promote urination.
Soo, I want to discuss the spleen and why we have soo many issues with it. It's kinda simple when you think about it. First of all, the spleen is what supports our mentality and brain functions. We live in a world that is very complex and basically we over use our spleens by thinking too much. We are mostly over-achievers and stay stressed out most of the time. Secondly, we eat way too much sugar, refined and processed foods. Its no wonder most people are severly over weight and have cancer.
Acupuncture is very good for stimulating the organs and contrary to some opinions, acupuncture can cure lots of things. However, I will say acupuncture is a tool for the cure, not the cure. So the receiver of acupuncture MUST change their lifestyle, follow doctors orders, or if you're gonna practice yoga, Ayurveda, TCM, whatever, do so and follow through with it on a daily basis...another words, discipline yourself and BALANCE is the key to good health. Balance is not as simple as it seems, especially if you don't have a clear understanding of what that means or entails. There are many aspects of balance within the human body, the environment in which you live and operate, then there is the balance in the world relating to weather and our conditions that you have to monitor and be aware of. In today's world, you really have to keep your wits about you and constantly be aware of everything going on to deal with it...and everything. It's alot and as time moves forward, it will be even more complicated to survive on this planet.
Edited by Cyndi 2008-09-14 2:52 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Rex,
Your trying to use a western mind in Eastern/Oriental philosophy...forget about it. You can definitely forget the "medical demostrable" facts aspect, western medicine has not yet advanced to this kind of understanding of the human body system.
It's not about making the spleen toasty and dry....then you would have an issue of dryness and that's even worse than dampness. It's about BALANCE. It's not that the spleen is gooey and wet, it's just not functioning properly because you don't support it and abuse it, which therefore causes the im-balance. Of course, I'm not your doctor, so I really don't have a clear understanding of what is going on with you...I gave you a few suggestions on what could 'possibly' be going on relating to dampness within the body.
Anyway, if you don't understand Oriental medicine, why are you doing it?? I can't really see where you are going to benefit...especially if you don't follow your doctor's advice, learn about the practices of the philosophy behind it...and then live your life accordingly...otherwise, you're wasting your time, the doctors time..and your money. Perhaps you should go back to your doctor and consult with him/her about your dampness issues, that way you'll be really clear about what is going on with your body, and how you can modify your lifestyle to support your health.
Good luck. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Rex - don't worry one bit about Cyndi keeping her attitude. She couldn't lose it if she tried - goodness knows WE have tried!  Go back and read her post without reading any emotion into it. I'm not saying there is not emotion there because Cyndi is passionate about Chinese medicine, but just realise it is meant to be helpful and thought provoking, not angry.  |
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| I am actually also a big fan of acupuncture. In a way, I would submit that acupuncture does the same thing as yoga - it balances the subtle energies - including organ systems, hormones, and mood. This supports and promotes healing.
I think the preceeding discussion gets back to my point about the terminology. Spleen in acupuncture (or liver or gall bladder etc) doesn't mean the same thing as it does in Western parlance & medicine.
I wonder about the pain comment. Please say more about that.
I have had both Worsley school (5 element) & 8 principle acupuncturists. I went to a student clinic at an 8 principle school, & I requested I(& the supervising acupuncturist ok'd it), that I get a much slimmer (Japanese style) needle, because the initial choice of the student in terms of needles was giving me a lot of pain & I couldn't tolerate it. It was much larger than the needles used by my original acupuncturist, who was one of the first Worsley school practitioners in our area. Yes, I feel something, & sometimes it is mildly unpleasant at first, but pain, I don't know, that doesn't jibe, to me, with the idea of helpful acupuncture.
Do you feel it is helping you? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Thanks for clarifying that Tourist. I am totally neutral when trying to expaining these kinds of things. It's not an easy task because it takes many many years of studying and practicing Chinese philosophies and the medicine. So, yea, please don't take anything personal - in the emotional aspect of this conversation, that is. Afterall, you asked the forum by coming here with questions. I already know my answers and some of yours from an intuitive and what you've mentioned level. I'm simply sharing what I know based on a level of understanding that I feel you and I can discuss.
I'm really not trying to offend the OP by asking the question, "why do you do something that you don't understand"? I'm asking the question so you can ask yourself. How can acupuncture and oriental medicine work for you if you don't understand it, or at least have a basic understanding of it? Oriental medicine is not the same as western medicine where you take a pill and your cured..supposedly, as we know western medicine mostly "masks" symptoms, it does not cure, it makes you think you are cured only to have the ailment come back worse than before. Oriental medicine can be compared to a yoga practice - it is a complete system, but you have to do some work if you want it to be a success for you. It sees the body as a system and everything works in harmony together. That is why it is very important to learn the basis of how the system works...using oriental wisdom and methods. You can do acupuncture every single day for the next year....but, if you don't understand dampness (we'll use this as an analogy since that is what you're dealing with), then you'll constantly be plagued with it and the symptoms that go along with it. Over time, it may cause you further problems in other areas within your body or affect other internal organs. You'll never understand why you have the same problems. Part of the practice with oriental medicine is learning your body and how to eat proper foods according to your body's constitution and whatever is going on, learning which foods are good for you and which ones are not, eating locally and/or according to the seasons, exercising, restful sleep (which builds your chi and maintains good health) and the art of meditating.
Having that said....a good oriental doctor will want to and will try to the best of their ability, discuss these things with you. My TCMD's didn't speak very good english, but you can be very sure that I did everything in my power to learn as much as possible and picking their brains is not that difficult if you truly want to learn. Translators are not that difficult to find. I taught one of my doctors English just so he could explain things better. It worked very well.
Edited by Cyndi 2008-09-21 7:25 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Rex - I love that you date your posts. It freaks me out a bit that I am replying to you in my time before you posted that in your time, but it is kinda cool, also.
We get these little misunderstandings from time to time and wires get crossed and people get fired up, but they usually calm down over time. No worries.
I suspect that acupuncture would help some of my ills, but I have yet to have a very successful experience with it. I tried it in the late 70's when it was still a sort of quasi-illegal thing here in Canada. I felt results but couldn't stand the practitioner. Tried it again a few years back but found I was very jumpy and nervous about the treatment as I had a few needles hit sensitive spots that were pretty painful. We've discussed this before here I think. I have always felt my nerves were very close to the surface somehow and someone here described that as being "light." Anyway, I may try it again one day. We'll see.... |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | rexall - 2008-09-21 7:57 PM
Appologies. I regreat the "spitting contest" that I seem to have provoked here.
Spitting contest??? Don't think so.
I should not have responded to Cyndi's reply in the first place.
Why?
Hey Rex, You came on this forum asking geniune and sincere questions. You also received geniune and sincere answers. You should try keeping an open mind to the medicine in which you seek, its not for every body. If your sensitive, it will challenge you on so many levels. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | rexall - 2008-09-21 7:57 PM
Appologies. I regreat the "spitting contest" that I seem to have provoked here.
Spitting contest??? Why do you want to have a spitting contest? I thought we were discussing Acupuncture and Chinese theories.
I should not have responded to Cyndi's reply in the first place.
Why?
Hey Rex, You came on this forum asking geniune and sincere questions. You also received geniune and sincere answers. You should try keeping an open mind to the medicine in which you seek, its not for every body. If your sensitive, it will challenge you on so many levels.
The fact that your feeling something throughout your body when the needles are inserted...Great News!! That means it is working. Blocked energy/Chi has to go somewhere....usually out the feet. It's amazing. I've only had a couple of TCMD's that can do that to me, consider yourself lucky to have found a good acupuncturist. You'll never get that with a Western/Oriental practitioner, they're usually not confident enough to make that happen.
Edited by Cyndi 2008-09-22 10:29 AM
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| Yep, sounds like the energy is moving & you feel it moving along the meridian(s). That is a good thing. I'm surprised you don't feel better right away. I always did, when I had a treatment. & I could look in the mirror & see that my color was much better.
Another good book is: Traditional Acupuncture: The Law of the Five Elements, by Dianne M. Connelly. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Sati - Mr. Tourist has done quite a bit of acupuncture, has felt the energy moving, yet has not had much in the way of results. It is an interesting system, he had good practitioners but for some reason, it just doesn't seem to be the right thing for him. |
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| Oriental medicine is not the same as western medicine where you take a pill and your cured..supposedly, as we know western medicine mostly "masks" symptoms, it does not cure, it makes you think you are cured only to have the ailment come back worse than before.
This is a common and completely innacurate, strawman characterisation of western medicine. To take a single concrete example, i suffered from duodenal ulcers for a long time, and several alternative therapies were sugested and tried to no avail.when i began to vomit blod i went to a western doctor and was cured within months by a simple course of antibiotics.
Western medicine suffers from many flaws, but it's insistente on demonstrable results is a part of it's strenghts and has led to a measurable and obvious improvement in out standard of living.
I am by no means trying to discourage anyone from pursuing whatever medical recourses they see fit, i particularly have no interest in debunking TCM, but seeing allopathic dismissed so cavalierly seemed to call for a response. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | whitefox - 2008-10-02 12:31 PM
Oriental medicine is not the same as western medicine where you take a pill and your cured..supposedly, as we know western medicine mostly "masks" symptoms, it does not cure, it makes you think you are cured only to have the ailment come back worse than before.
This is a common and completely innacurate, strawman characterisation of western medicine. To take a single concrete example, i suffered from duodenal ulcers for a long time, and several alternative therapies were sugested and tried to no avail.when i began to vomit blod i went to a western doctor and was cured within months by a simple course of antibiotics.
Western medicine suffers from many flaws, but it's insistente on demonstrable results is a part of it's strenghts and has led to a measurable and obvious improvement in out standard of living.
I am by no means trying to discourage anyone from pursuing whatever medical recourses they see fit, i particularly have no interest in debunking TCM, but seeing allopathic dismissed so cavalierly seemed to call for a response.
Whitefox,
I don't think so this is a common innacurate characterisation of western medicine. I think everyone has their own experiences and dealings when it comes to the flawed system of western medicine. If you go back and read this forum over the years I have posted my experiences with my family, friends and children...it ain't pretty.
After Western doctors killed my Mother, legally, I met a wonderful TCMD. She taught me how the human body system works. She taught me how to prevent illness and disease, how to meditate, how to manage my environment, how to eat properly, but most importantly, how to balance my life and the signs and symptoms to look for internal imbalances, ahead of time for early prevention, and sooo much more. As for antibiotics, there are so many herbal formulas that have been around for thousands of years that act as natural antibiotics, without the use of harsh chemicals with major side effects. Frankly, I am so sick of the western mentality that thinks its soooo superior, when in fact, it's the most deadly and invasive to the human body system.
Over the years I have had to sit back and watch other friends and family suffer un-mercifilly at the hands of western doctors and medicine. Thanks, but no thanks.
Yes, I'm quite sure you have had your "bad" experiences with natural alternative therapies. I had to go through that before I met my first TCMD. There's alot of crap out there. Most of which are usually western doctors who see the flawed system and are trying to go natural...but haven't quite got the training and abilities to take the alternative treatments where they need to go. We all know how the road to hell was paved with good intentions. They mean well BUT.
The reason I chose TCM is because of who I know and have learned from over the years and because I studied it and it makes sense. Also, because one things for sure about the Chinese, not that I particularly like Chinese government and the goings on in that culture right now, but because the medicine is very accurate, detailed and thorough when it comes to an understanding of the human body. In fact, it's remarkable, intelligent and far more superior than western medicine. It dates back over 5,000 years, which that aspect in itself says ALOT.
On the other hand....I will give credit to Western medicine when it comes to trauma and saving a life. My TCMD always says, "Save your life first, balance your body later". But, there is more to that. When a body is balanced, it has the ability to naturally heal itself without intervention and invasive techniques. People are so stupid in the way they micro-manage themselves and freak out over the smallest things. They should learn how to relax and quit worrying about every little symptom and most of all, they should have faith that their body will take care of itself, but you gotta make the right environment for it to do so. Western medicine does not understand this concept, completely. In fact, they are only just beginning to grasp the concept, but in a small way. They have to put their price tag on good health, whereas in TCM, it's FREE.
Anyway, I have so much more to say about this, but I'm really busy and have things to do today. Perhaps we can discuss this more, in a calm fashion, without attacking. I'm not saying you, whitefox are wrong, but you are not totally correct either. In my world and what I've seen and witnessed, is that more people have benefited from TCM than Western medicine. I've witnessed cancer patients who were told they had only 6 mos to live, come to my TCMD's and live longer healthy lives...sometimes with a complete cure...sometimes not due to the advanced stages of their illness. But I can assure you that the ones who didn't make it, died in a more peaceful manner, with less pain and suffering - which is more natural and conducive to what the human body needs when departing this world.
Have a good day.
Edited by Cyndi 2008-10-05 10:40 AM
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| I think we do know what is right for us, & if healing is moving in the right direction, relapsing or not doing anything at all. "Holistic" therapies do take longer though. Personally I don't have the money anymore for acupuncture. I know it did a lot for me in the past. |
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Acupuncture
