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| Not trying to offend any Iyengar lovers here in the least. But I just want to know peoples thoughts on Iyengar and if there are lots of people that love using the props,etc.
I have been to a few Iyengar classes and I have to say..unless it was the teachers. The class was so NOT peaceful by finally getting into a zone..then I'm told to go get a chair, go get a block. Cold metal chairs are not appealing to me. I just have to say....it was not my thing. I'm sure there are people that love it as it as probably helped them to get into poses much easier.
But I guess I'm just pacient with myself and I'll wait until my body say's.."ok I'm ready to get into this pose on my own time, with out the use of props." I do understand that props help with alignment as well....but did I just experience newbie teachers or are Iyengar classes often dis-jointed with moving around and going back to the closet for other props?
Thanks,
Roxy |
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| I think that always using props is the same as never using props. It is one size fits all yoga. Props are often useful and in some cases necessary, but if used all the time for all people are just another crutch and the de-personalization of yoga.
It is like doing half moon against the wall (a big prop). It helps the student work on the "feel" of the pose because they can concentrate on what they are doing without having to balance. This is only useful if they afterwards try the pose without the wall and can transfer what they learned to the open floor. Some students also benefit by using a block and some do not. (Both these statements are usually but not always true.)
DVDs are one size fits all. If you have a real live teacher, they should be modifying the class and the methodology so that it fits the people who are there that day. This includes the use or non-use of props and any other teaching aids, including manual adjustments.
Personally, I find the over-use of props disrupts the flow of the class because the students spend more time getting and setting up props than doing the poses that the props are meant to enhance and also cannot build and keep the body temperature that helps protect against injury. (This is one reason why I teach Vinyasa Flow instead of Iyengar yoga.) |
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| That's a great question you pose.
So if I may, I'll address three points from your inquiry.
This yoga or that yoga may absolutely not be for you (or may absolutely BE for you). So that is a possibility whether it is a slow viniyoga class, an aligned Iyengar class, or one of the myriad of "yogas" that sweat your buns off.
The perception of yoga as a peace sit-in is a bit off mark. Yoga is not necessarily peace-inducing. It may be but it is not necessarily so. It is the same with meditation: this idea that it is peaceful. Many people do experience such a feeling but there are clearly others who have not experienced that. In fact I've seen quite a few agitated meditators. In the same way I've seen some very pissed off yogis - aggressive, arrogant, etcetera. The point is to have an experience and relish it even if the experience stinks. Very few practitioners can claim "peace of mind". But of course many claim it nonetheless.
Yoga on the mat is a preparation for yoga off the mat. Which means yoga in a world where people ask you to stop that very important thing you are doing and fetch something. It means when things come up, that is when your "peace" is tested. I'm not suggesting that props were introduced in the Iyengar system for such a purpose. No. Indeed they were introduced to create a practice that fit the human in a world where the human could not fit the practice. This is quite a significant concept - yoga that fits you, not yoga that forces you to fit it.
A mindful teacher does not pour prop work into their curriculum just from habit. Prop work should be carefully thought out and deliberated in the mind of the teacher for just the reason you broach - it can be jarring to run all over god's creation getting this thing and that thing. For intermediate students it's fine. They are focused and experienced. For beginners, well it's another thing. It is also important for the teacher to think ahead in their prop planning. If you are using bricks then use them. If they go back to the shelves, leave them.
The purpose of props is to allow all students access to the benefits of a pose. If either a) you are so supple you can do them all already or b) you are willing to forego the nectar of a pose "until your body says okay" then you don't need props.
When we resist things, be they props, an open heart, a new thought...then we make it very difficult for yoga to exist in our consciousness.
Edited by purnayoga 2008-05-29 1:07 AM
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| The usual structure for the Iyengar classes I've attended is that each student fetches/brings a set of props to their mat at the same time as setting up. An exception might be chairs as they're not used every class. Getting the props up front reduces the figit level though that will vary dependent on how many new folk are in class.
Cold chairs; nasty! Those with plastic seats or plastic-coated metal ones are a lot more user friendly. Even metal ones can be made more so however by chucking a towel, mat, or block on/over it first depending on the pose being performed.
Yes, there's a lot of moving around of mats as you may need the wall for some bits and not for others for example. Personally I find this a good thing as it stops folk getting territorial over 'their bit of floor' and allows me to walk off any bit of me that's starting to ache too much.
My own teacher will talk us through what we're doing in savasana before we move into it so that if we're going to prop, all the bits we need are by the mat first, e.g. blocks to lie back over or straps to assist maintaining cobbler pose. Again, this helps reduce the figiting.
Some classes are more serene than others. One focussed on precision in standing poses will make me sweat like a Bikramite and be anything but peaceful, whereas a restorative or 'brain resting' class will, perforce, contain less disruption.
Most Iyengar classes involve a certain amount of standing around as you're talked through the required pose and alignment.
I've met several flow fans who still take Iyengar classes as they consider them their yoga theory class. That is, they do the Iyengar classes for knowledge and injury prevention, and their other form out of passion and conviction.
As a near OCD type A freak, I love the discipline of Iyengar and the effect it's had on my body. I still like taking other classes however as I miss the relative lack of pranayama and meditation / visualisation (I started with Sivananda).
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2008-05-29 5:49 AM
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| Dear Roxy: Your question is not easy to answer. But, few additional thoughts:
- your question asks what one thinks of Iyengar and then props. I think it should be answered by a person who has a considerable association with these two. Otherwise, they are going to give you flaky first time impressions. That also includes yourself.
- All Iyengar teachers do not teach the same way. So, the question should rather be on props and not on Iyengar. (I am NOT an Iyengar Teacher. And, I use props a lot.)
ETC.
roxygirl - 2008-05-29 12:33 AM
Not trying to offend any Iyengar lovers here in the least. But I just want to know peoples thoughts on Iyengar and if there are lots of people that love using the props,etc.
I have been to a few Iyengar classes and I have to say..unless it was the teachers. The class was so NOT peaceful by finally getting into a zone..then I'm told to go get a chair, go get a block. Cold metal chairs are not appealing to me. I just have to say....it was not my thing. I'm sure there are people that love it as it as probably helped them to get into poses much easier.
But I guess I'm just pacient with myself and I'll wait until my body say's.."ok I'm ready to get into this pose on my own time, with out the use of props." I do understand that props help with alignment as well....but did I just experience newbie teachers or are Iyengar classes often dis-jointed with moving around and going back to the closet for other props?
Thanks,
Roxy |
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Expert Yogi
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| As I have said here frequently, I am not responsible for anyone's meditative state. Meditation is a separate practice from asana and asana class is where we go to LEARN asana. You take your understanding from class and put it into your own practice. Nevertheless, an Iyengar class is planned (usually) to be a complete practice and sequenced in such a way so the student can learn the sequencing and the nervous system is properly balanced by the end of the class.
As it happens, this week I am teaching restorative classes and they are typically the most prop intensive classes in Iyengar yoga. Newer students are indeed bothered by learning the setups and dealing with props. Experienced students understand the benefits of using props for supportive poses and are thrilled to walk in and see the lights down low, knowing full well that the prop cupboards will soon be virtually empty. In this case, the props are most certainly used for a reason other than the student being unable to do the full pose on their own. Even a seasoned and adept student will have challenges holding a 5 minute down dog plus a 10 minute headstand at the start of a class that is intended to be more quieting to the nervous system. Using bolsters and blankets for supta baddhakonasana gives different effects - the chest is opened better is just one example. The cold seat of the chair for the forehead in uttanasana is ideal for my cranky sinuses, but if students prefer, a blanket works wonders.
Yoga is often compared to gardening and gardening can certainly have a similar effect on the nervous system and mind. I would have a hard time gardening without a few "props" and though it may interrupt my flow of thought while I am digging weeds, if I need a different tool while I am doing it, I don't hesitate to get up and go to the shed to get what I need. Perhaps it is useful to think of using props in class this way. |
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| it takes a minute to become fluid with the props, and another couple to really understand how they interface with your specific body.
if you've only been to a few (or a few hundred) Iyengar classes, then you probably still have a ways to go in understanding the proper application of props.
they are helpful not only as support, but also as a means to focus awareness in a certain part of your body.
if you are willing to be patient with your body, then you should also be willing to be patient with your mind's resistance to propping...at least if you are interested in continuing study of the Iyengar method.
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| Thank you Dhanurasana. |
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Well, viewed from a different viewpoint - yoga is considered to be a natural health science with deeper spiritual effects to say in brief.
this being so, would not use of props be going over the natural limits of the practitioners body? would not a better understanding and awareness of the postural alignment of one's body be better if added with some patience to improve the postures?
Of course, i do agree with use of props when doing therapeutic work. props are great for this.
otherwise, to me, the travel is as enjoyable as the destination !
Giri
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| To my mind, it's the converse. That is, the props aid the practitioner in avoiding going beyond their natural limit.
Consider a standing forward bend. A novice yogi is often tempted to get their hands to the floor come what may, even though this results in a 'camel hump' and risks damaging their lumbar spine. Use of a pair of blocks restores correct spinal alignment and removes the risk. It conveys to the novice what correct alignment should feel like so, as their practise deepens, they may come to a point where their hands are on the floor AND their back is correct posture.
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2008-05-30 5:26 AM
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| Yoga is NOT a Natural Health Science. And, being Spiritual is NOT natural. Actual, being spiritual is trying to cross the Nature, that is natural. And, physical yoga exercise, though it has some effects useful later for meditation, is less effective than Meditative practices if one is interested in Spiritual Effects mainly.
And, props has nothing to do with or against spirituality. Props are used for a reason in exercise and they do the job.
Giri - 2008-05-29 11:43 PM
Well, viewed from a different viewpoint - yoga is considered to be a natural health science with deeper spiritual effects to say in brief.
this being so, would not use of props be going over the natural limits of the practitioners body? would not a better understanding and awareness of the postural alignment of one's body be better if added with some patience to improve the postures?
Of course, i do agree with use of props when doing therapeutic work. props are great for this.
otherwise, to me, the travel is as enjoyable as the destination !
Giri
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Expert Yogi
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| Neel - I like that answer VERY much!   Human nature is not naturally spiritual. As I have the privilege of watching small children develop, I can tell you that their nature is to push and hit and grab and take each other's food etc. and, without training (or teaching or whatever you want to call it) they would surely continue to use those basic instinctual behaviours to survive. As adults, we have (mostly) been trained into a more civilized state, but to go into spirituality requires more awareness and hence more training.
Going back to the props: I have very often seen props employed to restrain student's bodies from going past their natural limits. Most of us have areas of our bodies which overwork to make up for lack of strength or flexibility elsewhere. In my case it is the lumbar spine which will over arch to make up for lack of flexibility in the shoulders. Props like the wood brick, the wall or even just the floor (a great prop that everyone has) have been and will continue to be invaluable to me in learning to restrain there and avoid injury.
Geeta Iyengar talked at length recently about how, on the spiritual path, our practice is a "prop" and how even the breath is a "prop" when considered as tools we use to gain insight and understanding. I will try to post more about this when the transcripts of that conference are published. |
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Expert Yogi
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|  We know about the dawdling because we do it, too!
I'm with ya on the cold chair.  Also, it is very nice for a sinus headache. Like having a cold pack on. |
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| Wow! What a response  Thank you all. And yes I was happy to read all of your own thoughts on it as well. Thank you for taking the time to reply! I guess I do see the that props can really serve a purpose. Blocks are fine, so are straps for me...but I'll just say "no thanks" to the cold metal chairs
Have a beautiful weekend everyone!!! xoxoxoxo Roxy |
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Expert Yogi
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| Roxy - this is always an interesting discussion. Just so you are aware though, if you continue with Iyengar classes and the teacher asks you to get a chair, it is not usually optional. For example, today I will teach bharadvajasana (seated twist) using a chair and it would not be at all appropriate for a student to do the pose another way, though I would certainly allow a blanket or mat to be put on the chair if someone objected to the coldness. I know it sounds a bit arbitrary and rigid but it is one of those things where it is best to learn the way you are being taught and in your own practice you are free to do things they way you prefer.
I am having trouble thinking of analogies for this... ok - if you are taking guitar lessons and you are used to playing a chord with a certain finger pattern (I don't know a lot about guitar, but I know there is a "proper" way to play certain chords and an "easy" way that many beginners use), when you are in class you need to do it the way you have been taught. It is probably a good idea to even practice it that way for a time, as your teacher will expect to see that you have at least put some effort into doing it their way. But ultimately, it is your choice to play however you wish when you are playing - just not in class.
Hope that helps. |
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| Props are GREAT! When I'm teaching, I have them available to keep students safe - so they don't go farther than their bodies should. I use them when teaching to get certain points across as well. (For instance, in utthita parsvakonasana, I may have *everyone* start on a block, regardless of whether or not they can go to the floor, to teach spinal elongation before rotating open, and the even lengthening of the bottom ribs relative to the top ribs. There's just far more space to do it when you're elevated on a block. Then they may come down if they can do so without losing that length and compromising the pose. I obviously won't do that all the time, it depends on what we're focusing on. But if we're working the thoracic, I don't want people saying "oh, I can reach the floor, so here I go" and then see someone sidebending in their thoracic.)
I use them in my own practice for the same purpose. They're exploration tools. |
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Expert Yogi
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| Mr.Tourist uses a chair as his "block" for parsvakonasana otherwise everything compresses and there is no opening in the front body at all. He has asthma, so he needs the opening, as well as back issues and a cranky knee. Yep - in some poses I suggest that he needs to head to the municipal hall and get himself a building permit for his prop construction! |
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To Prop or not to Prop?
