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| I'm the co-owner of a thriving yoga studio and we have been approached by a popular health club to help them expand their yoga program. They're going to build out a nice new space and have it be separate from the traditional fitness side of their business. The club currently does offer yoga. In fact some of our teachers also teach there. When they do they get paid a flat fee by the club. IT has nothing to do with us. The club charges a membership fee and their clients can take whatever they want at no additional cost. Our studio of course is set up for payment by the class or with class cards. Our teachers get paid 50%.
We had a preliminary meeting with club management today. They made no definite proposals but are eager to get our reputable name associated with their place. I'd be interested to know if anyone on this forum knows of any such arrangement and how it's set up.
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| Now, I understood what the Health Club (which should correctly be called "Fitness Club") would get out of this relationship with you. What would be benefit to your studio out of this relationship?
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| The club gets more members. Say someone comes in to do yoga and has to walk through all the cool machines and weights, happens to glance at a spin or kick boxing class in progress on the way to yoga class. They will probably end up signing up at the gym to expand their workouts.
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| Hello Steffi,
I'm not aware of any such setup here in Seattle, nor in Baltimore or Orlando - the other cities in which I've lived.
My concern as a business owner would be providing something to a direct or indirect competitor. One of the things that makes yoga studios more attractive than a gym is the nature of the yoga. If you are going to lend your reputable name to the gym and they are going to develop a Studio-like environment, why would students come to you for yoga when they could go to the gym, get a variety of benefits, and have a dressing room, sauna, etcetera?
If the gym and your studio have overlapping spheres of influence, geographically speaking, then you would be fueling a competitor and should be compensated very, very well as you may loose potentially retainable students.
I do not know the nuances as you haven't outlined them but I'd be very careful about such a relationship unless there are significant revenue drivers for your entity.
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| I'm not a teacher. The gym I belong to has something slightly akin to this. They have a separate studio where people pay for classes in yoga, pilates and now they have offered some tai chi. There are also freebie classes of yoga and pilates in the regular exercise rooms. I don't think the gym has formal arrangements with any studios, but I know the Tai Chi instructor has a center somewhere else.
The key to making this relationship work is to make it mutually beneficial. The best enticement for your studio, I think, would be to skim off some of the more serious/dedicated students from the gym. To achieve this, your studio would have to offer something that was not available at the gym. What comes to mind is more advanced classes. Gym yoga classes tend to stay on a beginner pitch. At my gym, there is a teacher who does Sivanandra style yoga. But the class limitations make this a very bare bones experience. If there were a studio with a more advanced treatment, I'd be tempted to try it out.
I hope this helps.
Duffy |
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| I know of an instance where an existing yoga studio has moved into the physical facility of a fitness club, but I believe it has kept its own entity, separate from the yoga classes offered at the club. The blurb on the studio's website announcing the move (last year) says "Enjoy the beautiful new space with Babysitting, Sauna, Steam, in addition to great Yoga." There is no mention of the yoga students being able to use the gym's fitness facilities though. Having never been there myself, I don't know what it's like. But I do know a teacher who teaches there (the gym, not the studio), so I'll ask her about it next time I see her.
Edited by OrangeMat 2008-05-09 7:44 AM
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| Thanks to all for your thoughtful comments. Your points are valid and the question of how to get a fair and beneficial arrangement going is one I will keep pondering over the next few days. The people who own the club are well-intended, in fact several of their family members come to our studio.
The sort of two-tiered offering where we do shorter more basic classes at the health club and more advanced ones at the studio may be part of the solution.
We very much want to keep our identity and a place where we can have our kirtans, our free community classes, and all the sweet kookiness that makes us who we are.
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| Dear OM, yes, I'd be interested to learn more about that arrangement you mention because one of the scenarios under consideration is one where we would actually relocate our studio into the same building as their facility. (They've got 3 locations in town) |
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| Sun Tzu wrote: "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." While I don't know your business model nor can offer advice as to how to proceed on the particulars, I would be prone to want to befriend them and have their yoga business to ensure I would have the entire yoga market and not be possibly aced out over time. |
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| I work in a health/fitness club and we have approached a wonderful little local yoga studio to ask the proprietor to teach a class or two at our facility. I had concerns about "stealing" her business as I have no desire whatsoever to do that, but at the same time I would love for our members to experience some REAL yoga as opposed to some of the garbage that passes for "gym yoga" in this country. Truly, my hope is that some of our current members will be motivated to visit the yoga studio in order to experience a bigger variety of yoga classes at more times of the day than we offer at the gym. Of course it would be nice if having great yoga classes brought in a few new members, but I have no financial stake in the gym so the bottom line really isn't a big concern of mine. My interest is in raising the bar for the kind of yoga that is offered at facilities such as ours, and for spreading a true yogic experience to more people.
When I approached the studio owner, she expressed that her ultimate interest is also in spreading more yoga around the world. Our state (Michigan) is in terrible economic straits and depression/desperation is spreading like an epidemic, so we need the sanctuary of yoga more than ever. Her general feeling about yoga is, the more people who practice, the better off the world is! So she is planning to offer a class at our gym in the fall. We can't afford to pay her anywhere near what she makes per class at her studio, but she is happy to have a free membership as part of her compensation.
Personally, I feel like her generosity of spirit and the welcoming nature of her studio creates an atmosphere that can't be duplicated at a health club, and I'll continue to pay for classes there even if I can get them for free at work!
Anyway, this is one isolated case - not to say that it mirrors your experience or in any way should dictate what your decision should be. It has to be right for you and your business. Only you know all the factors that matter, just let your internal compass be your guide. It's rarely wrong! |
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| So great to have Jean back--we missed you kiddo! |
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| Having never before posted to any kind of forum, I feel really lucky to have you all write me such heartfelt and thoughtful notes. Thanks again for everyone's input. it's great to know there's a place like this to talk over all matters yoga.
The various responses remind me of the energy, the yin and yang, if you will, of the way my business partner and I run the studio. I always feel I'm the hard-ass business side and she's all about spreading the love. It works marvelously for us because we are both willing to listen to the other and know we balance each other really well.
That whole dynamic of making money, which one must to keep the doors open, while trying to walk the path of yoga is something, isn't it?
We're going to have another meeting with the health club people later this month. We will go for the "win-win" .... to use the most tired old business cliche I can think of. Something like brand all their yoga classes with our name, and pay us per student at roughly the same rate we would make at our studio minus the overhead they would be absorbing. We basically want to go in and run their yoga program for them.
Next week will be vacation time for me and perhaps a clear solution for a proposal to them will emerge.
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| Hi Steffi, I see that teacher on Wednesdays, so I'll ask her then. I did look into going to the studio myself to take a class (it's an Anusara studio, the style that I practice), but it's over an hour away from where I live. But I'll get back to you later this week, regardless. Good luck! |
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| In this sort of arrangement, there are two ways to "expand" your studio business with this business---1. closing the current location because the gym location is larger and offers other amenities; 2. the gym is far enough away from your current location that you're opening a second location to the community.
in the first instance, i would want the room to be larger than my current room and at an exceptional rental price. with this, the gym would have to be close enough to my current location that my current students aren't "put out" by the location change--that is, that they don't have to drive any farther to get to me at the gym than they did before.
in the second, it is just like starting a new studio--so the gym has to be far enough away from your current location to attract a new audience, and you'll want to look into yoga competition (other yoga businesses) to see what the situation in that little area is. in this case, i would probably as for a smaller room at an exceptional price (one about the same size as the current studio).
in either case, i would make sure that
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[*]the gym did NOT offer any yoga classes for free to members whatsoever. members will always go to free classes, and people will join the gym to get the free ones (which would probably cost less overall than paying for a class card), and this leaves you high and dry.
[*]gym noise could not be heard in this room--their rock music, the noise of people lifting weights and grunting and what not, and general chit-chat. there must be a clear plan about noise.
[*]the gym and it's amenities are clean, accessable, safe, etc. such that it would be a benefit for you. EXAMPLE: one gym here's business is in the potty because the baby sitting has a terrible reputation. mothers will go to a gym with less amenities just because the babysitting has a good reputation. you'll also want to understand everything you can about such amenities--such as who is running the babysitting, when it's available, if it costs 'nonmembers' extra, and so on.
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if i think of anything else, i'll let you know.
i often recommend to people who are starting a new business to choose a "safe" location such as a gym room to start a business. You can usually get a good deal and good reciprocity going--assuming that you can attract people to that space and members are willing to pay extra for classes (or able for that matter--you do need to understand the market there).
for people who have established businesses, it has to be seen as an expansion--and a good question to ask is "am i ready to expand my business?" i think that most businesses expand well before they should. it's no simple task running a second location, and a lot needs to be considered in general.
either way, good luck! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| Along with the other "not like a gym" items - warm! Not "hot"and not freezing cold. I would also run your eventual plan by a couple of dozen outside people to be sure there were no loopholes or things that could make you lose your organic free trade hemp yoga shirt.  Oh - and unlike ZB, I would allow a couple of "free to members" classes per week - short and NOT in prime time. |
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| seriously, in a situation here where yoga is free and then they offer not-free yoga classes that are "better quality" and "longer" and "prime time"--the people from the gym will NOT go to those yoga classes.
it's a bust every*single*time.
in one gym where i work, we've had the back room utilized by two different successful pilates studios, several different martial arts studios, and three yoga studios.
my classes at this gym are not "prime time" considering the babysitting situation at the gym and the time slots themselves (5:00 Mon; 6:00 Thurs; 8:30 am Fri). my classes are an hour long, whereas the other classes were 1.5. and our room is dirty, cold, noisy, and full of "junk."
the studios that have started are parts of other studios with good reputations, offering good yoga instruction, at a really good price. NO PEOPLE FROM THE GYM EVER TOOK THOSE CLASSES. the studios had to close.
in the case of pilates, our gym also offers 4 free pilates classes a week--and only piss-poor mat pilates at that. those classes are FULL even though they're also at crappy times and with crappy teaching and only an hour long. the pilates studio--even with various machines and types of pilates and a great schedule and a room that wasn't crappy and all of that--NO PEOPLE FROM TEH GYM EVER TOOK THOSE CLASSES. 
the martial arts studios did much better. they typically moved out when the room they were using became too small for their classes. no martial art classes are taught at our gym--they even canceled "cardio kickboxing" because it was "too close" to the martial arts in form. there were 4 cardio kickboxing classes that were changed to "fitness Rx" which is made up by m y good friend Amy and is a really awesome group fitness class that i think she should package up and sell like body pump or yogafit personally. but, she's not doing that and i dunno why. 
honestly, every time i've been in gym that has tried to open a yoga and pilates studio separate from the gym but also housed in the gym--while still teaching regular yoga classes for free to members--those studios have always flopped.
the three places where it has worked have always offered yoga for a fee. the free classes would be through the studio and might be once a month or every six weeks at most to entice people into classes--but otherwise, you paid.
members would get a discounted rate (such as 10 lessons for $100 whereas nonmembers would pay $120 for a class card); but otherwise, no free classes at the gym for anyone.
and if yoru teachers also work at that gym already in the free classes, that will make it better for the transition to paying--though there will be a drop off in participation.
i mean, honestly, my students at the gym i mentioned above pay $.83 per class with their gym membership. If i opened a studio at that gym and held even two of my regular classes at not-prime times, then my students would NOT pay for the extra cost of that studio. they woudl rather pay $1.66 for the two classes and just maintain their membership, rather than buy classes from me.
but if ALL of the yoga left the gym and they had to join the yoga studio at the gym--and they could get class for a discounted rate as opposed to the other studio where i teach--then they might pony up the cash for it--some at least once a week, some every other week, and some once a month--but they wouldn't be getting free yoga anywhere else, and so i'd basically "force their hand."
now, maybe that's not nice, but it's business and it works. |
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| bump to see my other post to edit it. |
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| Same with my gym-we had "free" yoga in the main studios and paid yoga in a seperate, back room. The paid yoga was a bust and very very few members took it. It was cancelled. |
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| Paying for separate yoga classes can easily add up to as much or more than joining a health club. I suspect many people are willing to pay for a gym membership or yoga classes, but not both. So I can certainly see where being located at a gym and visible to it's members might not do much of anything to make them paying yoga students, whether or not there are free yoga classes included with the gym membership.
People generally expect clubs to be a mostly all-inclusive thing. They expect to pay extra for personal training, massage, maybe court time, but not any sort of group classes. I think if someone is interested in joining a club and the thing they are most interested in costs extra it's actually kind of a disincentive to join or stay. Maybe promoting private yoga sessions would work, similar to personal training.
I think you either have to be well compensated by the health club, or else treat it as any other space and plan on marketing it the same as a separate studio (expecting few gains and possible losses from being part of the club.)
There is one place in my area that I think is successful, I have no idea of monthly fees but I'm pretty sure it's not cheap as it's in an expensive area. And the population is there to support it. It's basically a "mind-body" health club associated with a regular health club, you can join either or both. The main club is http://www.longfellowclubs.com/ and the "mind-body" club is Lumina, I believe it actually has it's own separate building. I've never been there since it''s not really close enough to my home to be practical, but it sounds great. |
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Yoga Department in health club
