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Closed throat in inversions Moderators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]	View previous thread :: View next thread
Yoga -> Yoga Teachers	Message format

tourist

Posted 2008-03-29 10:14 AM (#105596)
Subject: Closed throat in inversions

Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
5000

OK folks, I am looking for some ideas here. Yes, I WILL talk to my mentor teacher about it, but would still like some general input here. My student is in her early 30's, generally fit and healthy, no traumas, energetic and not fearful. She has been attending my classes for a couple of years but does not have a home practice.

Problem - in headstand and shoulderstand, and to a smaller extent in downward dog, she has a feeling of her throat closing and not being able to breathe. It is not the common "blood rushing to her head" sensation, but the sense that the throat is closing off). She has had her thyroid checked - not enlarged. This came up this week because we were working headstand, which we rarely do in my home class. She had mentioned it before but I hadn't asked about down dog. I feel like we can just avoid the other inversions for her, but since it is affecting her in such a basic pose, we need more info and ideas. She has tightish shoulders, but nothing remarkable, is not holding her breath and not tensing the muscles of there throat and face - none of the usual issues around poses like this. She can remember doing headstand effortlessly as a child, so there is no known fear factor.

So - any rough ideas? Things I can look for? Had any students with similar issues?

nucleareggset

Posted 2008-03-29 10:55 AM (#105597 - in reply to #105596)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

I don't know if this is helpful at all, and I haven't explored it more fully, so it's just more data to add, but I have the same thing occur to me if my asthma is acting up. Asthma can be a form of reactive airway disease (it isn't always), and you can get a sensation of restriction in the throat. It'll also happen to me if I've had a lot of post nasal drip. I may not notice it any other time until I do an inversion, because I've either gotten so accustomed to it (I have sinus issues :/) or because it's essentially settled somewhere relatively benign. Once I turn upsidedown, though, the phlegm shifts to a new and less suitable location.

Anywhoo... There's my experience, but I'm guessing you've ruled those things out.

Posted 2008-03-29 12:28 PM (#105598 - in reply to #105597)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

glenda,
This sounds very interesting and I'm sure that many of us will want to hear how this turns out so please let us know. Does this also happen in standing forward bend? Intense side stretch etc? In other words, does it happen every time her head is below her heart or only in some poses? What about bridge?
Thanks,
jim

Posted 2008-03-29 11:56 PM (#105615 - in reply to #105596)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Hello Glenda,

Relative to your student it may very well be a physiological issue and I would be interested to know how this student abducts the scapulae in her practice. If her serratus is not doing the work of creating space between the medial borders then she would likely have a similar issue (of one sort or another) in Pincha Mayurasana, Sirsasana, Adho Mukha Vrksasaana, Adho Mukha Svanasana but NOT Sarvangasana.

And that is the larger puzzle at this point. So it might be prudent to examine her airway from the anatomical perspective and see that she's not got a flap of leather lodged in her larynx.

The other thing that occurs to me is that there may be an expression issue in her life. If she's been with you for some time you may broach the issue of how she speaks up in her life when it's topsy-turvy (aka upside down).

It may also be beneficial to have her do the Tibetans and see how the throat chakra responds to that series. I know for me the throat is very "present" in that series and it's allowed me to look at some of my own expression issues.

Edited by purnayoga 2008-03-30 12:00 AM

Nick

Posted 2008-03-30 9:06 AM (#105619 - in reply to #105596)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversions

Location: London, England

Hi Glenda,
First of all, you probably already know most of the following, and also, as others have said, it's important to preclude any medical conditions.

These three postures all have the capacity to make people restrain their breathing, partly because of the effort involved in holding each posture. Perhaps a few moments of ujjayi breathing before attempting each pose, and then examining the movemnt into the pose and ensuring that the breathing is not restrained at any point-if this happens, spend some time at this point breathing fully before moving on into the pose.

Often, at the same time as breathing becomes difficult, people tighten their superficial neck muscles-perhaps she should be taught to recognize when this is happening. This will help to create a cycle where her breathing is optimized because her neck muscles are not tight-and because the neck muscles then figure less in the mechanics of breathing, then perhaps this could also optimize the function of the diaphragm?

In shoulderstand, I sometimes put my index finger under the neck, and ask the student to lift away from the finger, and to keep the arch of the cervical spine, both as they go into the posture, and throughout the pose. This can make the entry into the pose much more difficult, and the student learns to take dure care in executing the movement-the trouble with shoulderstand is that it is such an easy inversion to go into, for many students at least.

Headstand and down dog pose can both benefit from proper cervical positioning. In headstand, I keep the hands interlocked with the palms together, rather than the usual method of palms on the back of the head. This effectively increases the distance from the shoulder joint to the floor-as a result, the neck is held in tension, not compression.

Take care
Nick

tourist

Posted 2008-03-30 10:58 AM (#105626 - in reply to #105619)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
5000

Thanks so much everyone! I wish this board had an option where one can see all replies. I'll try and remember what everyone said.

I think not asthma. Mr. Tourist has that and I think I would recognize it.

Purna - this class does not do the more advanced inversions, though I was tempted to work on adho mukha vrksasana as a comparison. Given what Nick says about tightening the neck (I am not seeing that, but it could be happening on levels I don't see) it seemed inappropriate to got here when she was already feeling hesitant about her experience in sirsasana. We'll need a fresh slate to go there.

I am not at all qualified to look at chakras, though I can tell you as someone who has worked with her for a few years as well as having her in my class, she does not outwardly have expression issues. She is perfectly happy to question and/or give opinions. That, of course, does not preclude some deeper issue that I cannot see and that she herself might not have conscious awareness of. That work will have to be done by someone much more experienced than I am, if it needs to be done.

Nick - definitely those are things I have looked at, though obviously need to be explored a little more closely. I don't get a sense that she isn't breathing or that her neck is tightening. You mentioned the diaphragm though, and this is worth a look. I have "trouble breathing" when swimming sometimes, though I can feel breath going in and out. I have discovered that the problem is that I am breathing very shallowly and not really moving my diaphragm much. That is worth examining.

And someone else mentioned standing forward bends - thanks. I'll look at those as well. I don't know if I mentioned it in my op, but this class doesn't invert much beyond viparita karani at the wall as there are several others with neck/shoulder/vertigo issues. So I will be looking at down dog and standing fwd bends.

And yes, I will report back.

Posted 2008-03-30 12:50 PM (#105633 - in reply to #105596)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

GLuv,

I was neither suggesting handstand nor was I suggesting a foray into chakra work.
Instead I was referencing the poses where serratus action is most needed and for some most apparent (when both present and absent).

While a student may have comfort of expression in class it is the expression in the outer world. And it may merely be mentioned for this student to examine, then process if it holds truth for her or discard if it does not.

tourist

Posted 2008-03-30 7:21 PM (#105645 - in reply to #105633)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
5000

Sorry to misinterpret. I thought perhaps you were suggesting that I look at her in those poses. Sadly, she just called and has taken a second job temporarily that will mean she won't be in class again until at least the fall

My home studio class is crumbling a bit so I think I need to do a bit of shameless self-promotion. I usually earmark those funds to help me take a couple of extra unpaid weeks off in the summer....

Posted 2008-03-30 9:29 PM (#105651 - in reply to #105596)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Change your message format to "flat" Glenda.
It's there just above the OP to the right in the drop down menu.

Edited by purnayoga 2008-03-30 9:30 PM

tourist

Posted 2008-03-31 10:16 AM (#105674 - in reply to #105651)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
5000

Hmmm....CHANGE? You want me to change something I've been doing one way for years?

Well, it is spring and time for new beginnings, so I guess I could give it a whirl...

Hey, wait a minute! I AM in flat mode! What the....??

Posted 2008-03-31 2:57 PM (#105694 - in reply to #105596)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Thanks so much everyone! I wish this board had an option where one can see all replies. I'll try and remember what everyone said.

thought you wanted to see all the replies so that was my suggestion.I figured you were viewing the threaded style.

Nick

Posted 2008-03-31 4:03 PM (#105698 - in reply to #105626)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Location: London, England

Hi Glenda,
Just reading through your post:
"Given what Nick says about tightening the neck (I am not seeing that, but it could be happening on levels I don't see"

I reckon, unless the practicioner is very skilled, knowledgeable, and dedicated, it's almost a dead cert that the neck muscles will tighten up. Given that the origin of these muscles are on the collarbobe and the shoulder blade, and they travel vertically to attach to the upper cervical vertebra and skull, their contraction will help support the student in the postures like down dog-the line of action of the muscles produces a force vector that keeps us in the posture. This is one reason why bandha figure so prominently in astanga yoga-something's got to keep you in position, make the core muscles the 'prime mover' (anatomical term meaning the primary muscle to produce a movement), and then the core muscles become the primary postural muscle, rather than the neck muscles, which is disasterous for good posture and health.
Hope this is helping!

Nick

tourist

Posted 2008-03-31 9:55 PM (#105708 - in reply to #105698)
Subject: RE: Closed throat in inversion

Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
5000

To be clear - I meant I was not seeing excessive, throat clenching tightness, which I see in students on a regular basis

Basically not seeing anything of the usual signals that might mean symptoms like this. Anyway, it is not going to be answered any time in the near future...

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