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Ram-Many times I have read the only desire you should have is the desire for enlightenment.
jimg===> Does reading something many times make it true? Why does it matter what the object of that desire is? Isn't desire desire, just like anger is anger no matter what its object? What does the hypothetical "should have" to do with the reality "is"? What about the desires that you actually have?
Ram-Part of enjoying what I have or living in the moment is by burning my negative emotions in the fire of meditation.
jimg===> What are negative emotions? Why are they negative? Where do they come from? In what way are they seperate from you so that you can "burn" them? Do you want to hold on to your "positive" emotions and get rid of your "negative" emotions? Who decides which are which? Isn't it the same entity that has or actually IS those emotions? How are you, your body, your mind, your spirit and your emotions seperate? If they are seperate, who seperates them?
Ram-How can you possibly fully live in the moment without doing some work on the mind and engaging in spiritual practises. I guess its possible but not for me.
jimg===> Who is working on the mind? Are spiritual practices certain things that you do and get certain things in return for? Are you buying, earning or bartering for spiritual goodies? I will do this if you give me that? Who is the entity that will give you what you want? Isn't wanting the same as desire? Isn't working on the mind and engaging in spiritual practices the desire for a different reality than the one that you are actually experiencing? If you aren't "enlightened" or whatever right now, why do you think that you will be at some time in the future? What are you waiting for?
Ram-I think your very confused by what it means to experience your true divinity. You think its some sort of ego trip.
jimg===>Have you experienced your true divinity? If so, how do you know that it was your true divinity and not just your imagination? Did you read about something, think that it would be really cool if you could have it and then pretend that you were experiencing it? Did you have an experience that was blissful and now you are trying to get more of it? Are you trying to hold on to a past experience? Are you projecting your memory of that into the future? If you have experienced something blissful, wasn't it totally in the present moment? Have you ever noticed how things like love and creativity and bliss flow through you, that you cannot hold on to them or make them happen?
Ram-Perhaps you have never had a spiritual experience?
jimg===>What is a spiritual experience?
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Ram - 2008-03-07 11:32 AM
I like the budhist philosophy of unlearning. Empty the bucket instead of filling it with more and more. Dry learning will get you nowhere but have more things to brag about to your friends. (spiritual ego).
Actually, that is not really the Buddhist philosophy at all. That statement is totally misunderstood and represented here in the West. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | jimg - 2008-03-07 1:42 PM
Ram-Many times I have read the only desire you should have is the desire for enlightenment.
As a yoga aspirant, the goal is enlightment. To desire is to be human.
Example...I have a desire to go to Peru one day so that I can experience that incredible place. I have a desire to drink chai tomorrow morning while watching it snow outside. Then I will have a desire to throw a snowball at Yodha.
Anyway, desire is such an interesting word. We live in this world and we must be able to perform certain actions and duties which are propagated by our 'desires'. I'd like to think that some desires are more healthier than others. Like another example...the desire to commit murder, that would not be a very good desire. A desire that would cause harm to another person or living being...that would also not be good. A desire to help other fellow beings. In which case, it cannot be faulted or labeled as bad. Although, I will say the road to hell was paved with good intentions (aka desires). So, we have to bee extremely careful don't we???
Speaking of harming others...did ya'll hear about that golfer that shot down a Hawk in Florida because he was making too much noise during a movie filming? What an idiot. The wildlife people and animal cruelty police are really after this guy bigtime. I hope they nail his butt to the wall. The guy was upset because he couldn't hit the bird with his first rounds. Made comments like, I can't believe I can't hit this bird and yet I hit golf balls all the time, or something to that effect...talk about an EGO problem and a very bad desire!!! 
Edited by Cyndi 2008-03-07 2:30 PM
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| jimg - 2008-03-07 1:42 PM
Ram-Many times I have read the only desire you should have is the desire for enlightenment.
jimg===> Does reading something many times make it true? Why does it matter what the object of that desire is? Isn't desire desire, just like anger is anger no matter what its object? What does the hypothetical "should have" to do with the reality "is"? What about the desires that you actually have?
Ram-Part of enjoying what I have or living in the moment is by burning my negative emotions in the fire of meditation.
jimg===> What are negative emotions? Why are they negative? Where do they come from? In what way are they seperate from you so that you can "burn" them? Do you want to hold on to your "positive" emotions and get rid of your "negative" emotions? Who decides which are which? Isn't it the same entity that has or actually IS those emotions? How are you, your body, your mind, your spirit and your emotions seperate? If they are seperate, who seperates them?
Ram-How can you possibly fully live in the moment without doing some work on the mind and engaging in spiritual practises. I guess its possible but not for me.
jimg===> Who is working on the mind? Are spiritual practices certain things that you do and get certain things in return for? Are you buying, earning or bartering for spiritual goodies? I will do this if you give me that? Who is the entity that will give you what you want? Isn't wanting the same as desire? Isn't working on the mind and engaging in spiritual practices the desire for a different reality than the one that you are actually experiencing? If you aren't "enlightened" or whatever right now, why do you think that you will be at some time in the future? What are you waiting for?
Ram-I think your very confused by what it means to experience your true divinity. You think its some sort of ego trip.
jimg===>Have you experienced your true divinity? If so, how do you know that it was your true divinity and not just your imagination? Did you read about something, think that it would be really cool if you could have it and then pretend that you were experiencing it? Did you have an experience that was blissful and now you are trying to get more of it? Are you trying to hold on to a past experience? Are you projecting your memory of that into the future? If you have experienced something blissful, wasn't it totally in the present moment? Have you ever noticed how things like love and creativity and bliss flow through you, that you cannot hold on to them or make them happen?
Ram-Perhaps you have never had a spiritual experience?
jimg===>What is a spiritual experience?
Questions, Questions, Questions. A some point my friend you should slow the mind down and just be. |
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| I haven't made up my mind about the necessity of a Guru for my own personal practice. I definitely have teachers but not a conventional Yoga Guru. My nature is to be skeptical of slavish devotion and organized worship. My nature is also to believe that humans are naturally positive and well-meaning. In a loving and playful spirit, I would suggest that if you have a particular aversion to the concept of a Guru and a strong independant streak, that may indicate the next area of growth for you. For instance, let go and submit to a great teacher. And if you have a particular affinity for Gurus, and go through cycles of not trusting your own wisdom, but following another until they fall from their pedestal...when then that may indicate the next area of growth for you. For instance, let go and submit to your own divinity. |
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| Also on a light note, even though I believe all human beings are fallible and don't have a Guru, I do have two people that I admire greatly and would be really devasted if I thought they were hypocrites. The Dalai Lama (14) and Oprah. Yep, I said it. |
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| I thought I posted this but it seems lost in cyberspace - if it shows up twice, my apologies. On a lighter note, even though I don't have a personal Guru and I think I acknowledge that no one belongs on a pedestal... There are two people/world figures whom I greatly admire and I would be really pretty devasted if they turned out to be hypocrites. The Dalai Lama (14th) and Oprah. Yep, I said it. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Asananow,
I don't think you'll have to worry about HH Dalai Lama.
Oprah??? Why did you choose Oprah?? Not that its bad or anything, just interesting to say the least along side the HH Dalai Lama.
As for Oprah being authentic, yea, she is in her own right..especially where world figures are concerned. I like her new show "The Big Give" and her topics on her show...they certainly have made an impact on our society. I remember when she came to Cumming, Ga back in the 80's to discuss the issues with the KKK. Hosea Williams had done a march to Cumming in protest of the KKK. That show changed a lot of things and how people viewed the South and the entire KKK movement. I was totally impressed with her and glad that event took place.
Some of my world figures are but not limited to...are: Jacques Cousteau, John Denver, Mother Theresa, Robert Redford, Barbara Streisand, and then David Duchovny as Mulder...the X-files is such an incredible TV series that brought some thought provoking issues, and entertaining ones too,  |
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| Oprah to me, walks the walk as well as talks the talk. Some of the commercial materialism and celebrity stuff on her show or in the magazine, I just tune out or roll my eyes. But as far as bringing concepts like charity, spirituality and mental and physical health to the mainstream, she just amazes me. Not too many folks can do what she does on such a high level and so consistently for so long... The public is very fickle and likes to tear down those they have built up. So it is so interesting that for, what, 20 years, she's just helped people and they've continued to respond. The DL just amazes me on so many levels. Amma too. I hope to see her when she comes to Boston next summer. Funny, I never paid my attention to Mother Theresa until recently, now I'm planning to read her book. She definitely led by example. |
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| asananow - 2008-03-07 8:16 PM
I haven't made up my mind about the necessity of a Guru for my own personal practice. I definitely have teachers but not a conventional Yoga Guru. My nature is to be skeptical of slavish devotion and organized worship. My nature is also to believe that humans are naturally positive and well-meaning. In a loving and playful spirit, I would suggest that if you have a particular aversion to the concept of a Guru and a strong independant streak, that may indicate the next area of growth for you. For instance, let go and submit to a great teacher. And if you have a particular affinity for Gurus, and go through cycles of not trusting your own wisdom, but following another until they fall from their pedestal...when then that may indicate the next area of growth for you. For instance, let go and submit to your own divinity.
Appreciate your fresh perspective.
We in the west are conditioned to believe that in order to have a guru you become a "follower" and he dictates how you live your life. Nothing could be further from the truth. The guru is merely your inner guide on your spiritual path. I too have a very independent nature and for the longest time had an aversion to the guru principle. But since allowing myself to examine one I feel like with guidance I have freed myself from a lot of restrictive negative emotions and actually have become more independent of conditioned society beliefs. Go figure.
As for the Oprah. I watch her from time to time but in no way do I consider her any type of teacher for me. She is merely about what's "in" right now. Whatever Oprah is dabbling in right now she wants to sell you on. |
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Questions, Questions, Questions. A some point my friend you should slow the mind down and just be.
Ram,
Thank you.
Namaste,
Jim
PS Sometimes I forget that, especially after visiting Starbucks! |
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| Historically most guru's have been all too human characters who have frequently abused the power they wield for their own ego and libido gratification. One should always be open to learn from anyone who has something to teach, but never relinquish your own powers of critical thinking and judgement. submission to a reputation means you take on their flaws too.
this is an interesting read on the subject.
http://www.strippingthegurus.com/
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Great beings and sex
