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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | That's all you have to say after that profound statement????? LOL!! Sorry, but we've already had our phone party over this....she'll bee back soon. You'll have to wait to continue this converstaion. Although..... Fee wants you to come to NC this fall, are you up for it BB?? I told Fee it would be very difficult for you, dealing with the two of us, might be a bit much  |
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| Bwhahahhahh, just when you thought you were safe....
Just popped into the office to do my on-line check-in (hopefully got a seat near the emergency exit - plenty of leg room there).
Nah, I don't think Bruce'd be up for it Cyndi as there's no way he's got the stamina for both of us  
Thanks for the call last night. It was just what I needed even if I can't keep my eyes open this morning 
Fee |
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| Just popping in to yoga.com to let you all know that Fee is back from her holidays.
She called me Saturday on my cell phone,
but I was out of town with no internet access
so couldn't pass on her greetings to you until this morning.
Wish I could say she's back home safe and sound,
but will just have to settle for safe, as the "sound" part could take a couple more days.
It's pretty rough picking up a yucky intestinal bug when one is traveling,
but if anyone can bounce back bravely both cussing and smiling about it, I bet Fee can!
And it sounds like she did have some good adventures in Egypt before and after the worst of the microbial misadventure.
She asked me to say howdy for her,
as she might not have net access again until back at work on the 7th.
CV |
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| Hi Pastorius, thanks for the update on Fee. I hope she enjoyed herself, so good thing she has a week more to recover from her vacation before returning to work. |
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| I'm back from three weeks dossing around in Egypt and at home. Those of you like my local friends and neighbours who've been suffering from snow really don't want to know that Dahab had unseasonally hot, sunny weather and those of you with a nervous disposition really don't want to know the details of the gastric bug I had (who'd have known having yoga-hardened abs meant spectacular distance whilst projectile vomiting *wg*?).
You might want to take a peek at my photos however :
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Orbilia/DahabMarch2008
Previous trips :
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Orbilia/EgyptNovember2007
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Orbilia/DahabEgyptMarch2007
Regards,
Fiona |
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| Thanks Pastorius for keeping my yoga pals updated.
Yoga pals, meet a cat pal who's about to take her first steps yoga-wise.
Yes, Cyndi, this is the Canadian pal I told you about.
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2008-04-07 6:30 AM
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| Oh, yes, I suppose I'd better also mention that I had my Islamic marriage to Ayman (it's not legal, legal until we do the civil registration in Cairo).
Fee |
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| So, you're saying your breaking the law, and you're back to the old grind? It's good to hear from you. |
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| Oh, sorta :-) I'm legal faith-wise but not civil-law wise as the only recognised marriage to a foreign national in Egypt is the civil one that has to be at a particular registrars in Cairo. The locals take us as married though as they consider the faith bit the more important bit. I guess it's a bit like having a church wedding but not signing the registration docket?
Fee |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Congratulations, Fee! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Geez, talk about having butterflies in your stomach. Sorry, I wasn't there for ya girlfriend
The pictures are lovely. Soooo, when are you moving to Dahab??? I'd already be packing me bags girl!! He's really handsome,  |
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| I didn't have time to get nervous. I thought we were going to the lawyer's office. Ayman gave me three minutes notice the lawyer was coming to the hotel :-)
Until Ayman pays me the dowry (usually jewellry), the Islamic marriage is not strictly compliant either.
I think my yoga teacher's in a bit of a snit too as I didn't even get time to find her. Ho hum, soon everyone will hear the torturous info on how this all works in Egypt and in respect to UK law and will then calm down a bit and understand that for me, the marriage is the civil one and that that's when y'all get invites to parties etc. :-)
*LOL* Cyndi; yep he is a bit of a cutie :-)
Fee
PS For those who missed it last time, here's my understanding to date :
Yes, that's right. The UK government (and the EEC?) accept legal UK
marriage of any foreign marriage that was legally performed in the
country it was conducted in, therefore Egypt legal means UK legal.
In Egypt :
1) It is illegal to have sexual relations outside of marriage and any
mixed ethnicity / faith couple attract a lot of attention.
2) Civil partnership law follows Coptic Christian cannon law or Sunni
Islam shariat law depending on the faith declared on your identity
documents (or at the time of the marriage if a foreign national). One
difference being that the Copts do not have divorce open to them whilst
the Sunni majority do which leads to fake conversions to permit divorce!
3) Shia Islam recognises temporary marriage (Mut'a [Orfi marriage in
Egypt]) whilst Sunni Islam does not. Thus Orfi marriage has no legal
standing in Egypt but is often accepted by the police / civil
authorities as evidence that the woman involved is not being coerced
and therefore enables them to turn a blind eye to infringements of
point 2 above provided there's no 'noise' about it.
4) Locals normally marry in chuch or the mosque with a civil
registration taking place in much the same way as it does in the west.
This may be on the same day or several days apart.
5) The civil aspect of marriage to a foreign national may only be done
at a specific registrars in Cairo with the foreign national having in
their posession a document from their embassy that declares that they
are free to marry (i.e. not married already, not wanted by the police,
not crimanally insane, etc). Thus, any marriage between me and Ayman is
only legal in the civil sense after this. The British Embassy in Cairo
would translate the marriage certificatge into English for me and
register it in the UK if I so wish (there's no legal requirement to do
so and the marriage would still be considered legal in the UK without
doing this). The Arabic civil marriage is required to be witnessed by
two men.
6) The Islamic marriage will only hold good under Sharia once Ayman has
paid me a dowry, usually provided in jewellry.
In short, my Islamic marriage is a bit like having a church wedding but deferring
signing the registration docket and thus getting your civil certificate.
I do have an Islamic marriage certificate in Arabic. The original is
held by the conducting lawyer. For witness, all Ayman had to do was
bring along the identity documents of his two male witnesses. This
piece of plastic is mandatory on all Egyptians and has no declare
Coptic Christian, Muslim or nothing as the faith. It is also very
difficult to change the faith once declared as both main faiths
prohibit proselytising therefore, in theory, no one converts.
You can't travel very far without your ID document(s) as Egypt is a
dictatorship under Emergency sanctions which means that in 'hot' areas
such as the Sinai, even a short, 2 hour journey to St. Catherine's
Monestary from Dahab involves being stopped at armed police/army
checkpoints anything up to 5 times each way. They are mainly looking
for drug traffickers and arms smugglers (think about recent clashes at
the border with the Lebanon / Israel and Hammas etc.).
Yep, it's all about as simple as building regulations in Italy and the
length to which locals there go to to avoid having to follow process :-)
As an aside, fully conducted Islamic marriage certificates are quite
literally a contract as Sharia essentially states that marriage is a
business deal whereby the man is exchanging his wealth and security for
sex. As such, the Koran states minimum requirements for divorce
settlements, bequests, how these alter if there are children involved.
etc. etc. Each couple can agree to vary / extend these clauses. For
example, knowledgeable women will insist on being given the right to
initiate divorce as the default is that only the man can unless he is
otherwise violating a basic requirement of marriage such as insisting
his wife do something contrary to God's laws or is impotent, etc.
In Egypt, Islamic women have only recently been granted the right to
initiate civil divorce and forfit the right to any financial settlement
if they do. If he initiates divorce, then she keeps her dowry and any
wealth she has prior to the marriage intact and it's only the estate
post marriage that's divided. The Koranic defaults weigh in the man's
favour but he also has an on-going requirement to provide his ex-wife
with a home and sustenance for life or until she re-marries. Divorce is
only final some weeks after the legal ruling to ensure that the woman
is not pregnant (the waiting period). This helps ensure correct
division of assets, and seeks to prevent such horrors as spousal rape
or infidelity on the part of the woman...... it ensures the man pays
what he should. A waiting period is also used upon the death of the man
to ensure a woman is not pregnant prior to re-marriage. This is
important under Islamic law as adoption in our sense is prohibited as
the faith says a child should always retain it's true lineage (e.g. in
terms of its name. A child will still be adopted in the care sense,
just not seen to the world as being a blood relative. Given a recent
high profile case in the west where a brother and sister separately
adopted soon after birth managed to meet and marry before the blood
relationship being known, this is maybe a better system than ours?
In UK law, pre-nups are not recognised in law thanks to the Church of
England's lobbying power (though many judges will actually review them
provided they are within 3 years current; no ruling has yet exactly
followed the defined agreement) so whilst UK divorce law would normally
apply if a mixed nationality couple spend the majority of their
marriage in the UK, it is possible to divorce under the other country's
laws and some partners petition for this to be the case when they think
they'll get a better deal. Ironically, this means my assets going into
any civil marriage with Ayman are actually better protected under
Sharia than under UK law!
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2008-04-07 11:22 AM
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| wouldn't it have been easier to have him come to the UK and do it there? LOL oh man, the rules.
my head is going to explode.
congrats! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Woo Hoo, Fee's gonna get some nice jewelry. You go Girl...just go ahead and get the entire family fortune, |
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| *ggg* Me too!
He could apply for UK residency as my fiance HOWEVER, he would not be allowed to work for the first 6 months and we would have to get married within 3 years (I think; maybe 2). Coming in as my husband means he's allowed to work from day 1 and the supporting documentation and visa application are less complicated.
It's swings and roundabouts on the pros and cons. Besides, getting married in Egypt means I get two receptions :-) I really fancy having the Egyptian one on board a boat in Alexandria's harbour, over the ruins of Cleopatra's palace.
Fee
zoebird - 2008-04-07 6:07 PM
wouldn't it have been easier to have him come to the UK and do it there? LOL oh man, the rules.
my head is going to explode.
congrats! |
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| Haha Fee, I was sitting at my sewing machine later yesterday morning, and I realized what a fool I am. I was so happy to see you were on I just wanted to tease you right away, and DUH, I didn't even congratulate you!!! So, Congratulations, better late that never. You honeymooner you. |
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| 'S ok, Shelly..... just thought you were being very British.... hear of marriage, laugh maniacally at the poor fool's idiocy and run :-)
Fee |
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| Holy smokes!! I HAVE been in never never land! Fee! Congrats!!!!! The pictures are awesome too! |
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| No worries, Jos. You have a 100% cast-iron excuse...... baby brain rot *wg*.
Thanks and thanks.
One of these days I may eventually be able to capture my Dahab morning's entertainment on video.... namely an arabic gent shouting abuse at his herd of wandering lop-eared goats. I love these critters. You can just tell they're really loving the fun involved in winding up their herdsman :-)
Fee |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I just thought of something......does this mean we don't get to have that Egyptian wedding????? The one where you invite all your friends and BRIDESMAIDS over. |
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| Nooooo. The official marriage (if it ever happens ) will be in Cairo with a reception or hafla zawaj (wedding party) in Alexandria and another in the UK. I have no idea at this point whether Ayman envisages there being loads of folk at Cairo or simply in Alex. 2 male witnesses are required (apart from the gender requirement, the Cairo bit's just like our weddings at a registrar's office).
What I would like I have no idea beyond wanting my mother and friends there (as many of you as can manage too) and that I would like to wear a white version of the Beduoin robes as my gown.
Fee |
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| Of course we do. It's just that the full thing will happen when we do the legal wedding in Cairo/Alex/Reading.
Ayman would be happy just us and our 2 male witnesses doing Cairo on our own.... he just wants to be married. I even get the occassional comment about whether being married to him or the wedding being more important (men!).
I don't know what I want in any detail yet beyond wanting THE FROCK and my MOTHER being there but I am happy with the idea of the Cairo legal bit being low key and saving the fun bit for the Hafla Zawaj (lit. wedding party) in Alex and the UK.
I really like the frock idea that one of my cat pals came up with... a white version of the Beduoin robes with simple toe-post sandals.
So, in short, you still need to plan for a trip to Egypt
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2008-04-09 9:46 AM
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| Gah, sorry for the multiple versions. Thought the first post had gone AWOL. Please delete that one any passing mod!
Thanks
Fee |
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| Don't you just love administrative errors?
I've only just been told that the gastric infection I had in Egypt was
Salmonella poisoning!
Fee |
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| Ouch, now you know how tough you are. Are you completely recovered now? I hope so. |
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I'm off again
