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| I have been keeping up my meditation practice for the last few weeks, now twice a day for 30 minutes each time. I have noticed a recurring negative pattern in my thoughts recently. I obsess over women. I think about women so much. Every time I see an attractive girl, my brain starts going in circles: "She is so beautiful. I should talk to her. What would I say? I want her to like me. What if she doesn't like me?" Then I am struck by anxiety and fear, as my brain keeps spinning, worrying about what I should do.
I have been trying a few different solutions to this problem. First, following the advice I read in Swami Sivananda's book "Thought Power", I tried to replace those negative thoughts with positive thoughts. Whenever I noticed my brain circling around an attractive female, I repeated to myself over and over again "I am awesome and confident and courageous, whether she likes me or not." However, this technique is very difficult for me. My brain often does not obey and keeps thinking about the girl. Especially as proximity increases, it becomes much more difficult. If I am sitting right next to the girl, my brain just does not stop.
I never realized that I had so little control, and it really bothers me. I wonder if I am even capable of stopping my desire for women. Am I simply supressing my desire by thinking contrary thoughts? Isn't supression a bad thing? For example, if I am starving, and I tell myself, "I am full and content and healthy just as I am," the desire for food still exists no matter what I tell myself. My body is still hungry. I am just fooling myself, pretending to be something that I am not.
I have also tried to just approach them as if I am not afraid. I smile and say "Hi. who are you?" (This is something I could never do before by the way, but recently somehow I have been able to ignore most of the fear.) But girls do not seem to like me very much. Some of them are really rude to me when I try to talk to them, which just makes me feel even worse and have more negative thoughts.
Is there any way that I can get rid of my desire for women? What can I do to stop worrying and thinkig about women so much? Should I just stay away and keep a distance? Not sit next to them or look at them?
All of these attempts at control and discipline just seem like pure supression of the desire, which does not feel good. Yet letting the desire have its way drains so much of my energy and consistently routines my mood, which also does not feel good. It seems like a lose/lose situation. Does anyone have any other ideas? |
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| How old are you? |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-08-30 7:57 AM
How old are you?
I am twenty. |
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| Sounds perfectly normal to desire girls. It's even more normal to have trouble talking to them. Finally you'll find that there are a lot of people in life that won't connect with you. Nothing to do with either one of you, just too different. Some of these people will be rude to you because of their own past experiences, which really have nothing to do with you.
As far as the desire for sex goes, I wouldn't worry about it. I read an interesting article about a western style monk. He said that the hardest thing to give up was the desire to masturbate. It took him about 7 years, he was older than you, and in a monestary! |
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Expert Yogi
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| strazin - at 20 you are biologically absolutely supposed to be thinking about women a lot. Although it is uncomfortable for you, I would by no means consider it "negative." You have probably heard this suggestion before, but you need to find ways to meet other people (including women) in a non-threatening, friendly way and socialize more rather than less. Go to yoga class, join a bunch of bird watchers, play Scrabble, borrow a dog to walk in the dog park, volunteer at a race, Habitat for Humanity, church, etc. Have fun and meet more people  |
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| Since SisTourist told me your age = 20, this is what I suggest.
- You need to first decide what you want to achieve in the field of sex. Total celibacy, medium, etc. etc.
- Then make a plan of action in that sense.
- If you were around 25 to 30, I would have recommended marriage. But, let us leave that for GJ.
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| "Celibacy – Although many people now translate this to mean non-attachment to sexuality or only having sex with your spouse, the word celibacy, as used by Patanjali, means no sex, period. Some Hindu texts from this period even state that any loss of semen leads to death. The idea behind celibacy is to trade present sexual pleasure for the promise of a higher pleasure later in this life or in some future life. Many faiths or sects try to control sex because it is a very strong basic human instinct. If you can control a person’s sexuality, they are much easier to control in other ways, much as a neutered dog is easier to control. Since our sexual instinct is one of our most primal, its suppression usually leads to perversion rather than some kind of holiness or enlightenment. The repression of anything is unhealthy. We need to understand and enjoy our sexuality and use it in a healthy, positive way. After all, it is the way that life is made on this planet."
"If you repress desire, it comes back in perverted forms. For example: A man (I’m using man in this example, but it could be the other way around) sets up his Yoga mat for class. He notices a very attractive woman next to him. The man can acknowledge his desire, decide that although this is a natural desire, this is not the appropriate time or place, consciously let the desire go (through non-attachment, not suppression) and move on with the Yoga class, concentrating on the exercises. -OR- He could not acknowledge or suppress his desire, pretend to be working extra hard on the poses for another reason, and injure himself through inattention to internal feedback while pushing too hard to get approval, attention, and to impress. Your desire is there whether you acknowledge it or not. This is why simply pretending not to have desire or suppressing it is counter-productive. You then stop acknowledging what doesn’t fit your self-image and it controls you unconsciously. You must develop awareness. Once you are really aware of your desires, you can understand them. Once you understand your desires, they no longer control you, you are no longer a slave to them." -excerpts from copyrited material |
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| jimg - 2007-08-30 1:10 PM
"Celibacy – Although many people now translate this to mean non-attachment to sexuality or only having sex with your spouse, the word celibacy, as used by Patanjali, means no sex, period.
===> Hey Jimg: Where did you get this idea from? The above statement is WRONG.
Some Hindu texts from this period even state that any loss of semen leads to death.
===> That is only an expression for encouraging the Brahmacharya. There are more Hindu Texts that encourage family life, sex, proper code of sex, etc. etc. And, most of the Hindu Texts recommend Complete Celibacy only to a limited persons whereas recommending Household life for others.
The idea behind celibacy is to trade present sexual pleasure for the promise of a higher pleasure later in this life or in some future life. Many faiths or sects try to control sex because it is a very strong basic human instinct. If you can control a person’s sexuality, they are much easier to control in other ways, much as a neutered dog is easier to control. "
===> The example of neutred dog is incorrect here. There is a big difference between a neutred dog and a Yogi who is controlling passion.
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| Jim-The idea behind celibacy is to trade present sexual pleasure for the promise of a higher pleasure later in this life or in some future life. Many faiths or sects try to control sex because it is a very strong basic human instinct. If you can control a person’s sexuality, they are much easier to control in other ways, much as a neutered dog is easier to control. "
Neel-The example of neutred dog is incorrect here. There is a big difference between a neutred dog and a Yogi who is controlling passion.
Jim-In your response the Yogi is controlling passion, it is not being controlled by another. What do you mean by "controlling"? Do you mean control through awareness and the resulting understanding or do you mean suppression?
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| Neel - Hey Jimg: Where did you get this idea from? The above statement is WRONG.
Jim - To say that an idea of another person is WRONG is generally considered to be rude and combative in the English speaking world. The accepted response is something like: I disagree with your statement because of _______________. I'm sure that you did not mean to be rude, but were unaware of the implications of this usage.
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| Jimg: I accept your statement here and I shall make that change in my English writing. Thanks. Now, I shall go to your response.
jimg - 2007-08-30 2:30 PM
Neel - Hey Jimg: Where did you get this idea from? The above statement is WRONG.
Jim - To say that an idea of another person is WRONG is generally considered to be rude and combative in the English speaking world. The accepted response is something like: I disagree with your statement because of _______________. I'm sure that you did not mean to be rude, but were unaware of the implications of this usage.
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| Celibacy Part: The word celibacy used in the Patanjali is 'brahmacharya'. brahmacharya pratishthaayaam viiryalaabhaH. Brahmacharya includes - not only celibacy. It includes trying to sublimate the sexual desire, peform devotional practices, moderation in eating and increase in devotional/meditative practices, and many other activities (I am going to only mention this for now.) Now, sublimating sexual activity means: initially recognizing that sexual attraction is very strong, it can lead to removal of focus from the meditative activity (as demonstrated by the Original Post), and then understanding the role of sexual activity in the life of a human being, and then keeping the sexual activity in a controlled state in relation to its purpose in human life (of course, one purpose is procreation, and emotional satisfaction) and in line with one's spiritual activity (for example: for the one who wants to be ascetic monk, the celibacy should be close to perfect, for the other ones in prorated way, BUT FOR ALL not beyond Marital Sex! ).
In any case, when brahmacharya as defined above is practiced, viirya that is enthusiasm or energy to continue yoga practice is obtained. And, this is demonstrated by thousands of yogis.
In an average way, for a householder, having a sex with married wife and NO ONE ELSE (adultery) is the definition of celibacy.
Controlling means as follows: For a young student - focus on studies, not associate with oppostie sex, perform exercises, prayers, etc. For a married man - have sex only with own spouse, and what I wrote earlier. For an ascetic - master the passion and totally sublimate it through meditation and prayer. For a Saint - NO control is required because, the control is a practice, and a saint is beyond practice. For a saint, a man and woman appears exactly same.
jimg - 2007-08-30 1:39 PM
Jim- "Celibacy – Although many people now translate this to mean non-attachment to sexuality or only having sex with your spouse, the word celibacy, as used by Patanjali, means no sex, period.
The idea behind celibacy is to trade present sexual pleasure for the promise of a higher pleasure later in this life or in some future life. Many faiths or sects try to control sex because it is a very strong basic human instinct. If you can control a person’s sexuality, they are much easier to control in other ways, much as a neutered dog is easier to control. "
Neel-The example of neutred dog is incorrect here. There is a big difference between a neutred dog and a Yogi who is controlling passion.
Jim-In your response the Yogi is controlling passion, it is not being controlled by another. What do you mean by "controlling"? Do you mean control through awareness and the resulting understanding or do you mean suppression?
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| When we speak of "control" we typically think of 100%, locked down, no deviation control, however we can also think of control in a less absolute way. We can control a river by only allowing some of the water to flow through a dam, we can control the descent of a vehicle downhilll by using the brakes to keep us from speeding beyond our capacity or in another way, we can use acceleration to INcrease speed to a desirable level (ride too slowly on a bike and most of us fall over). Just a little thought... |
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| That is a very interesting way of explanining it! |
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| tourist - 2007-08-29 12:30 AM
When we speak of "control" we typically think of 100%, locked down, no deviation control, however we can also think of control in a less absolute way. We can control a river by only allowing some of the water to flow through a dam, we can control the descent of a vehicle downhilll by using the brakes to keep us from speeding beyond our capacity or in another way, we can use acceleration to INcrease speed to a desirable level (ride too slowly on a bike and most of us fall over). Just a little thought...
Tourist, I totally agree. One should find a good balance and avoid excesses in either "direction".
Additionally, (and speaking for myself), I try not to run after any desire for its own sake. Instead I ask myself where the desire comes from and whether I really desire that which seems desired. Very often, I find that I'm desiring an illusion. Once in a while the desire is genuine. Then it usually has some "deeper" motive, and I would rather call it a Passion. I don't fight those, but welcome them instead. Those have a tendency for self-regulation.
However, I doubt that any of this advice helps at age 20.
Tw
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| Oooh. You naughty. The one who tries control at 20 is a blessed one, if it comes from within such as in your statements, called 'genuine desire'. On trying the control, when one finds that path too difficult, one has to get a guidance and decide the proper path, such as marrying, social work, etc. Also, the social infrastructure does work most in this case. For example, if the same guy goes to a Yoga Class in India, he shall not face this problem with the same intensity.
tweeva - 2007-08-31 7:01 AM
However, I doubt that any of this advice helps at age 20.
Tw
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Expert Yogi
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| Impulse control is an interesting mechanism. As I work with very young children (1 year olds) I can see that some of us seem to have it built-in. Some children are naturally cautious and particular about all the choices they make, even so young, and others are completely ruled by their senses. These are often "busy" kids who just run to every stimulus they see or hear and rarely stick with one toy or game. But for a male 20 year old, it is pretty much like a kid in a candy store - so many choices and they all look yummy! My advice to strazin is the same - stay in the candy store and look around a lot but don't touch anything! Eventually the over stimulation and excitement will abate and the choices will become easier  |
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Good answer, Tourist!
Edited by jimg 2007-08-31 11:50 AM
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| Interesting. I know that Neel might not believe it, but I tend towards the cautious approach. Probably for the better, I've been burnt a couple of times, but seldom really surprised by it.
(And yes, this was even at the age of 20)
Edited by GreenJello 2007-08-31 2:29 PM
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| I shall trust in you after you get married.
GreenJello - 2007-08-31 2:29 PM
Interesting. I know that Neel might not believe it, but I tend towards the cautious approach. Probably for the better, I've been burnt a couple of times, but seldom really surprised by it.
(And yes, this was even at the age of 20) |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-08-31 3:30 PM
I shall trust in you after you get married.
 I'm working on it. Frankly, I'd rather live in a cave and eat nettles than date, but I'm working on it.
Edited by GreenJello 2007-08-31 4:24 PM
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| I would like to share with you all that today I am celebrating my 38th wedding anniversary!
Marriage is just like yoga. If you do it right, it is a wonderful thing. If you do it wrong, you might get injured. If you don't do it at all, you lose for sure. |
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| tourist - 2007-08-30 6:30 PM
When we speak of "control" we typically think of 100%, locked down, no deviation control, however we can also think of control in a less absolute way. We can control a river by only allowing some of the water to flow through a dam, we can control the descent of a vehicle downhilll by using the brakes to keep us from speeding beyond our capacity or in another way, we can use acceleration to INcrease speed to a desirable level (ride too slowly on a bike and most of us fall over). Just a little thought...
I really like this answer. Thank you. You make a good point that you do not have to become a saint to demonstrate control. My goal has been to simply get a little bit better each day with my discipline and control -- and I have in fact been getting better. You have reminded me to find satisfaction in that.
I also like the advice to go find more non-threatening ways to socialize. Putting myself in new, uncomfortable social situations which directly confront my anxiety and desire seems like a great exercise in developing discipline.
What I will not do, however, is accept my sexual desire as a necessary side effect of my age. Many of you have said that it is natural for a young male to have strong sexual desires. I agree that this is true, but on the other hand it is also "natural" for people to be greedy, selfish, and afraid. Why should I give in to any one of these drives? I don't care if the desire is "good" or "bad". My goal is to be free of all of them.
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| strazin - 2007-08-31 6:06 PM
I don't care if the desire is "good" or "bad". My goal is to be free of all of them.
Hi strazin,
The goal to be free of desire is also a desire.
Namaste,
Jim |
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Desire
