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| So, I took a different workshop last Saturday.
He said:
bend your knees in dogdown. (totally disagree with this)
don't round your back in downdog (disagree with this too)
seperate your feet for uttanasana (disagree with this)
press through your heels in plank (disagree with this)
It was an open workshop and questions and comments were welcome, but I didn't want to get into it.
thoughts?
Eric
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| i work for the flat back in downward dog in myself and in my students--so for me, the bent knees is one way of achieving this. i feel that it opens the hamstrings more thoroughly and more slowly over time, without causing injury to the lower back.
there is a version of uttanasana that has feet apart, and generally speaking i do not practice this version unless it's in another forward bend like padagustasana or the like.
in plank pose, i tend to focus on the thigh/belly strength aspect, and i'll suggest to students to press back through the heels as long as they're using their legs. some do not use their legs, and end up with the hip sag. pushing back can help some engage their legs. |
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| Thanks for replying..
I practice flat or slightly rounded back. If the gaze is to the navel, and uddiyana is engaged you will get a slightly rounded back. This position is used in Surya Namaskara B to step into warrior, and jumping into ardha uttanasana. If you steer everyone always from the idea they won't learn how to able this...
Hamstrings! Well, I understanding why you would bend the knees to stretch the back of the legs. I always considered downdog very safe and very good at opening the back of the legs with straight legs..
I guess I teach a different plank. My plank is pressing through the ball of the feet (not back into the heels, I like heels lifted), thighs lifted, strength between the shoulders. He taught heart melting, shoulder high. (big dip between the shoulders)
PS: good luck on your workshop. |
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| Definately prefer to bend the knees in order to get straight spine, im not into tail bone tuck, I think it may strain the lower back and sort of deadens the pose, when the spine is in a neutral position the breath can be felt to move more clearly up and down the spine, and I can find uddiyanabandha much easier. I think its better with neutral spine and pelvis. Its much better to get a straight spine than legs. I think if most people are honest this drishti is way out of reach, may as well wait until you can do it with integrity
I usually teach uttanasana with legs together, but sometimes apart for variety -not everyone can get them together comfortably.
I like to press through heels in plank because I think it helps to activate the legs better, and support the bandhas more, and I believe this is a main contribution for stability of the pose. 
Maybe you should have enquired into why he prefers the methods he used
Edited by raquel 2007-08-29 3:27 PM
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| He didn't have a problem with straight spine, but he encourage bend knees on every downdog. No matter what your dog looks like.
I do encourge bending the knees in downdog for people that are tight. I did this morning actually for a new student.
Part of me is starting to wonder if my own practice is getting in the way here. I mean, I can bring my head to the ground in downdog (ala Iyengar). My heels always are flat. Even in Dolphin. But, I got this way from doing downdog pressing through the heels. I didn't walk into the studio that way. I can gaze at the navel too. So,
I'm trying to get my head around what is best to teach.
As far as baddha goes, I'm not sold on that.
For dog, I teach chin down. gaze at the middle of your mat, your thighs or even the navel. Do we just ignore dristhi? I've found that when I ignore dristhi, I regret it and have to relearn it again.
Uttanasana.. yes, right. But he was saying that people should just do what is right for them. Then he referred to that anatomy book on that changed his perspective..
the plank...I'm more interested in plank as a transition. And I think that is where we differ here: The plank I learned has heels lifted and the shoulders are slightly in front of the wrists. |
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| The way I understand drishti is that we look to the best of our ability to the correct spot, because it helps us to stretch that little bit further, supporting the alignment and bandhas, if however the eyes do not naturally go to that spot, then we stay were we are until we can. Many people cannot turn their head in trikonasana or twists, so they rotate their neck and move the eyes as far as they can comfortably go. I think the drishti should support the structural support of the asana. We have to watch that we dont reduce the gaze point to a conceptual imposition which compromises alignment.
I see one of the benefits of applying uddiyana is that it helps to support the thoracic spine. Most people have a rounded upper back, in down dog its nice to compress it in, it helps to get rid of the slump. For me I seem to get a clearer connection from feet, through legs and up spine, when I do it this way, my bandha is much more hollowed out, and abdomen long and passive. If I do it the other way I feel my belly harden (it is taught your way in pilates) I think this is why there is a dullness there because of the hardness, the energy doesnt seem to flow as freely.
But I agree if you can straighten the legs, they should definately be straight, otherwise the dynamic quality is lost.
If I was just transitioning from plank to chat though as you say i wouldnt put as much emphasis on pushing through the heels, id focus more on bandhas. If we were practicing it as a held posture I would get them to bring quality to feet and legs, as they are an important aspect of maintaining stabilty in the posture.
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| Eric -- different bodies need different things, I guess. I never ever felt a hamstring stretch in my downward dog until I started allowing a slight bend in my knees. Once I did that, it became a totally new pose for me. This is the order of instructions as I learned it: knees bent, sit bones spin up to the ceiling, melt heart, slight tailbone tuck, THEN move the thighs back to staighten the knees, hopefully without losing the integrity of any of the other actions you just did. And my head also almost touches the floor once I'm good and open too. I'm betting the big dip between the shoulders in plank didn't agree with you either. I had a tough time relearning that one also. But it makes sense to me now. Just try to keep in mind: many paths, one truth. Really.  |
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| TampaEric - 2007-08-30 10:26 PM
So, I took a different workshop last Saturday.
He said:
bend your knees in dogdown. (totally disagree with this)
don't round your back in downdog (disagree with this too)
seperate your feet for uttanasana (disagree with this)
press through your heels in plank (disagree with this)
It was an open workshop and questions and comments were welcome, but I didn't want to get into it.
thoughts?
Eric
Hi Eric,
Depending on the required outcome, we do all of these in Iyengar system.
Jonathon
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| Erich Schiffman says the pelvis is in dog tilt, but I find that if I do that (because I am lordotic) all the pressure tends to go in my lower back. Cant see how bending the knees gives a stronger hamstring stretch, I would have thought it would release them? |
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| For me, bending the knees forces me to engage my quads, which in turn makes the hamstrings stretch more (the contract/relax principle). I feel this is downward dog, and uttanasana even more. |
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| I don't know OM.
When I bend one knee at a time, I can feel a deeper stretch on the opposite leg? I'm sure what you are saying is true, but it is not how my hamstrings opened. To me that puts a lot of pressure at the attachment site near the tailbone. And, I don't find that beneficial. I do agree with you about engaging the front of the legs. In DD, I was taught to follow the energy up front of the legs and down the back of the legs. Like a circle.
No, I didn't like the dip too much
How do you reconcile what happens in side plank? To me the integrity of plank doesn't change. So, if your heart is melting in plank, do you want that in side plank? Do you want the shoulders the same way? |
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| Arr, So do you activate quads first then straighten legs or just keep them bent? I can definately see the point of doing it like that, but if you can straighten then you must, otherwise you may not be moving to full potential.
Tampa eric - I explain it a similar way, lift through the arches, carry the lift up through the front of the legs, hip bones, lift inner body (bandhas) and then shoulders roll down lower back lwengthens down, backs of the knees open and move down, back of heel presses down, and the circle begins again
I teach plank with the shoulders slightly protracted heart centre lifting.
the expressive language is very imaginitive
Edited by raquel 2007-08-30 10:45 AM
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| Okay, here's the gray area.
I never completely straighten my legs, because my knees hyperextend and lock back.
does that make sense? |
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| Well the way the way I see it is there is -
1,hyperextended legs, (knees locked)
2, straight legs thigh muscles engaged knee caps lifted
3, bent legs
I would never do or teach hyperextension. But i think in order for the spine, pelvic floor and core of the body to release it is done more efficiantly by use of straight legs (not hyper). Its the straight leg standing postures that develop somatic intelligence. |
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| I pick number 2!
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| me too |
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workshop last weekend
