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Non-eating question
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tourist
Posted 2007-07-25 6:52 PM (#92598)
Subject: Non-eating question



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This is for Neel or others who fast or make choices involving periods of not eating. We have discussed before that I feel very anxious about the whole idea of fasting and the potential for migraines etc. Last night I went out in the evening to eat (hurray! What a treat!) with yoga friends and had a little sushi around 9 pm. Since I did not feel hungry in the morning (woke up about 6:30 - Tour de France is on and Mr. Tourist is up very early to watch!) and wanted to do some asana practice, I did not eat. By 10:30 or so, I noticed that I was starting to feel very shaky and was losing cognitive function (couldn't think of the words I wanted to write, couldn't make decisions about simple things like where to put a dish etc.) and was beginning to be light headed and have signs of low blood pressure (head rush to the point of a little "grey out" when standing quickly). These are all things I have associated with lack of eating in the past. I did not go to the point of getting a headache, though. I did at one point have a glass of water to be sure it wasn't dehydration.

So... opinions? My diagnosis is that it is not healthy for me to not eat.
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libragirl
Posted 2007-07-25 7:31 PM (#92600 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


Tourist, are you hypoglycemic by chance? My mother is, and if she goes too long without eating something she feels shaky and headachey b/c of low blood sugar. I'm not officially diagnosed but I have the same problem. My husband can go 12 hours without eating and then eat a big dinner, whereas I have to graze on small meals every 4-5 hours, or else I feel very weak. I'm sure if I ever wanted to fast, I'd have to mentally and physically prepare first. It's an interesting question whether certain bodies can "take it" more than others, or if everyone could train themselves mentally. I'll let you guys know when I have a desire to fast
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2007-07-26 9:26 AM (#92651 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


You were confused and dizzy? If that were a drug, someone would be taking it.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-07-26 10:31 AM (#92666 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


When one is accustomed to frequent eating, and then takes a break:

a) previously stored toxic is released and can cause nausea, headache, and any other symptoms.

b) the habit of eating can make one feel unhappy or dissatisfied due to the sense of Taste being not satisfied.

c) if one is truely hypoglycemic, one may feel low blood sure, and thus blanking out. However, most (99 percent) diagnosed hypoglycemics are not real hypoglycemic. They are conditioned hypo... , that means that they have disabled their digestive, and mental system in such a way that any lack of food causes problems and any food taken is not completely digested.


Solution: One needs to slowly develop habit of not eating, starting with delay of 1 hour at a time, and then increase it to several hours, and then several days as necessary.
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tourist
Posted 2007-07-26 10:49 AM (#92671 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question



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Any test I have ever taken shows my blood sugar is fine, but I have had these symptoms all my life. There have been times when I have come very close to blacking out and certainly get migraines that were disabling. Now I just tend to watch myself and eat at regular intervals - much more pleasant!

Neel - thank you for the idea of starting slowly and working up to longer times. That might be helpful.
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-07-26 11:45 AM (#92681 - in reply to #92671)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question



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Hey Tourist,

There is an art to fasting for sure. As I sit here in the hospital Starbucks... Some may say I should be eating, but because of the nature of what I'm doing...dealing with death, emotions - myself and OTHERS mostly, etc...I am Chai and Blueberry muffin fasting, There's this great cafeteria with great food and vegetables...which I may build myself up to later, but now, I just cannot eat a big meal. I'm really trying to keep my wits about me and be alert. Food is just out of the question right now. Even DD has recognized this for herself as well. Actually, it was more her idea...since the Mom in me says we should eat...but the Yogi in me knows better. We are 2 Yogi's on the road again,

Anyway, it has been a really interesting experience with my daughter right now. This is her first time ever in a hospital (since she was born that is) and dealing with death. I'm so proud of her, she's really getting it. I'm so happy I introduced her to Yoga and the meaning of life.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-07-26 1:05 PM (#92690 - in reply to #92666)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


kulkarnn - 2007-07-26 10:31 AM c) if one is truely hypoglycemic, one may feel low blood sure, and thus blanking out. However, most (99 percent) diagnosed hypoglycemics are not real hypoglycemic. They are conditioned hypo... , that means that they have disabled their digestive, and mental system in such a way that any lack of food causes problems and any food taken is not completely digested.

This is true. I was diagnosed as hypoglycemic when I was in my 20s. I couldn't go for more than 2 or 3 hours without eating. I'd get shaky, irritable, have the sweats, it was awful. So I worked on cleaning up my food. With attention to what I was putting into my mouth, I found I could go 4 to 5 hours without eatingĀ and not be getting the dizziness and the sweating anymore, but the irritability would still be there. Then I worked on cleaning up my attitude (i.e. my yoga practice). The irritability is going away now as well.... slowly but surely.... though I still like to eat...



Edited by OrangeMat 2007-07-26 1:07 PM
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joscmt
Posted 2007-07-26 3:28 PM (#92707 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


Glenda- just read about fasting last night in my anatomy book- here's what they have to say about it on a physiological level- Warning- kind of long...

"During the first few days of fasting, protein catabolism (breakdown) outpaces protein synthesis by about 75 grams daily as some of the "old" amino acids are being deaminated and used for gluconeogenisis and the "new" (that is, dietary) amino acids are lacking. By the second day of a fast, blood glucose level has stabilized at about 65mg/100mL,; at the same time the level of fatty acids in plasma has risen fourfold."

Basically, it's in the first day when you feel weird. At which point your body realizes it ain't gettin' fed. So it goes into "power save" mode and uses fat stores in the body to run on. "The fatty acids diffuse into muscle fibers and other body cells, where they are used [for energy].

My book also says that "people can survive without food for two months or more if they drink enough water to prevent dehydration"

Now, during a controlled fast, you shouldn't be running around.. it should be restful and restorative. I was going to do a cleansing fast with my nutritionist... but she said I needed a week off of work to do it... not a chance around these parts-- not for me, at least...well, and obviously, not now while pregnant!!

My source is my textbook- Principles of Anatomy and Physiology by Gerard Tortora and Bryan Derrickson
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tourist
Posted 2007-07-26 6:02 PM (#92719 - in reply to #92707)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question



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I have never felt safe enough to get through a day, though I haven't ever tried a complete rest with it. In younger days I would do things like try to skip lunch if I knew I was going out for a big dinner and would always have a severe headache long before I got to the dinner

Yesterday's thing was a matter of being 2 or so hours later than usual breakfast. I was doodling around the house and not doing much at all. I just felt like it would be either passed out on the floor when my husband got home or in migraine hell, so eating seemed the best plan of action. Today I ate earlier (cottage cheese and blueberries - yum!) but was still light headed-ish by 11 am and had a huge lunch. Now I am regretting that... Ah well, live and learn!
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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-07-26 6:05 PM (#92720 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


Hey joscmt: I have one quesiton for you. I might do this myself when I go to Borders next time. But, you have the book on hand, and the course in head. Does the bio of authors indicate: they have done several fasts of prolonged times?
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belle vie
Posted 2007-07-27 9:47 AM (#92757 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


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Hello, Glenda, Several things come to my mine--such as it is. Is there a reason that you feel you personnally should not eat or that you should go on a fast? From what you describe I would agree with you that not eating may be unhealthy for you.

If you feel you must try it , I would follow Neel's gradual method and if you try to go for long periods of time without eating, begin under careful supervision with someone always there. Passing out is not the best way to kill time until you can eat.


I have similar symptoms as you describe but less severe, inability to make decisions, extreme irritability, dizzyness and I have never been diagnosed as hypoglycemic. This happens when I have not eaten for 24 hours, for very stupid reasons, I miss breakfast, go window shopping and get too caught up to eat lunch so go on until dinner without food. Actually, I don't have the energy to do that anymore, I now take an apple and eat it with a cup of tea. Then I feel great, unfortunatley, I start making decisions to buy that great dress, and the pair of shoes and....

As always, you have to do what is best for you
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joscmt
Posted 2007-07-27 4:47 PM (#92795 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


Neel, this is a textbook. I doubt the authors have fasted for long periods. I was simply stating what the book says happens physiologically to the body during a fast.
Your practical experience is probably more vaiuable... the book is strictly from a scientific standpoint.

As for your question of is it in my head? Well, that's the part I'm working on right now..
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tourist
Posted 2007-07-27 8:53 PM (#92807 - in reply to #92795)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question



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belle - it is so often suggested as an appropriate measure for various ills - if you are sick, don't eat etc. that I think there must be some merit to it. One thing that had me thinking about it lately is that I did go 24 hours or so with nothing but an IV (salt and sugar in it) when I had my surgery and was fine. Also, I have not felt properly hungry since the surgery (my stomach is smaller) and when the opportunity just presented itself the other day, I thought it would be good for me to not eat until I felt actual hunger. Just one of those little experiments
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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-07-27 10:40 PM (#92810 - in reply to #92795)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


Hey Marylisa:
I was not concerned with your quoting or I was not concerned about you at all. I was just curious (actually seriously curious) whether the author's bio mentons their experience. May be it is in the Preface. ETC.

But, I wish you well for Head Stuff to arrive into your hands during exams.

joscmt - 2007-07-27 4:47 PM

Neel, this is a textbook. I doubt the authors have fasted for long periods. I was simply stating what the book says happens physiologically to the body during a fast.
Your practical experience is probably more vaiuable... the book is strictly from a scientific standpoint.

As for your question of is it in my head? Well, that's the part I'm working on right now..
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belle vie
Posted 2007-08-04 10:23 AM (#93469 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


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It took me a while to find it, but I knew I had read something about fasting while on a trek. Rather than resting, you trek for 3-4 hours everyday while fasting for a week. So, it's not my cup of 'herbal' tea
:-( but it seems there is an organization in France that sponsers these retreats. Yannick Noah goes yearly if not more often. The site has a large body of information in French.

The web site is
www.ffjr.com

There is one article at least in english about the history and an interesting article from Psychologies.com by a journalist who tried one and lived to tell about, again, in French.

Why French women don't get fat-- that's not the title of the article-- if that's what it takes ,I don't think I am up to it, but then again, I'm not French. But happy reading Glenda



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ankali
Posted 2007-08-06 7:40 AM (#93566 - in reply to #93469)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


belle vie - 2007-08-04 4:23 PM
Why French women don't get fat-- that's not the title of the article-- if that's what it takes ,I don't think I am up to it, but then again, I'm not French.


Hi Elizabeth,
definitely not with fasting... I think on average, it's from having smaller servings, less rich food and not drinking as many soft drinks
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belle vie
Posted 2007-08-06 8:49 AM (#93581 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


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Hi, Delphine, I couldn't agree more. We just don't have those huge portions here or the "Big Gulp" , of course I don't know what they serve at McDo's or Quick. Young French women seem to move around a lot more too. Not to mention genetics

I did not read the book, but, from observation I know some French women do get fat. Increasing space in large supermarkets is devoted to prepared foods and junk food, less and less to fresh. The organic sections seem to be mostly desserts and cookies. Older women and many young ones too here in the south are overweight not to mention the children. I hate to see it happen considering the catastrophe in the US so I dont't want to be the pot calling the kettle black

Then again, when I think these thoughts I see 2-3 gorgeous, svelte, French women, young or 'of a certain age" walk pass as I sit munching my lettuce leaf
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ankali
Posted 2007-08-06 10:29 AM (#93601 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


Genetics certainly plays a great role.
A study reports that in France, 40% of the adult population and 20% of children are overweight so we're not that far behind unfortunately...
It's a worldwide issue, even China is affected.
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tmarques
Posted 2007-09-08 3:44 PM (#95923 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question


Hmmmm... I'm an expert on fasting, but for the wrong reasons. A few years ago, I declared Mondays the official day of fasting so I could compensate for the excesses of the weekend. Soon, I was going for up to 5 days without food at least one a month.

In my experience, the 2nd day was the worst - hunger, dizzyness and headaches. All of which were alleviated by gallons of coffee and diet coke. If I could make it through the 2nd day, days 3 and beyond were a piece of cake. The dizzyness was still there, but it was tolerable.

Of course, a couple of years and 30 lbs. less later, blood circulation in my right leg was stopping to a crawl. In came Prozac, which might have saved my life at that point and the reason why I'm not as against medication as most people in yoga.

I still think it's a good idea to fast for a single day to rid the body of toxins, but I'm afraid of falling into old habits, so I'm avoiding that for the time being.

Then there's Prakshalana (sp?), which serves a similar purpose, but I suppose it is a whole other eating disorder waiting to happen.
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tmarques
Posted 2007-09-08 3:45 PM (#95924 - in reply to #92598)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question




Edited by tmarques 2007-09-08 3:48 PM
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-09-08 5:51 PM (#95926 - in reply to #93581)
Subject: RE: Non-eating question



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belle vie - 2007-08-06 8:49 AM

I did not read the book, but, from observation I know some French women do get fat. Increasing space in large supermarkets is devoted to prepared foods and junk food, less and less to fresh. The organic sections seem to be mostly desserts and cookies. Older women and many young ones too here in the south are overweight not to mention the children. I hate to see it happen considering the catastrophe in the US so I dont't want to be the pot calling the kettle black



Geez, you mean this junk food and prepared food phenomena is happing in FRANCE?? OMG, nothing is sacred anymore!!!!!!!!
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