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| Hypothetical: You have two yoga teachers. One is 20 years old, an old soul who has little life experience, but seems sort of wise and has obviously lived many lives. The other yoga teacher is 75 years old and has done yoga his entire life, but seems kind of child like, obviously a soul who is only on his first through tenth life.
Who do you choose as your one and only mentor? Do whom do you give more respect? |
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| There is one liquid in a bottle, you can not see the liquid to determine it's nature. There is another liquid in a can. The can is new but you cannot see the liquid in it either. Which one do you drink from? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | How do you know?? How do you really know this for sure??? If you really did know something of this nature...I'd say you really don't need a mentor, huh?? |
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| Yeah, yeah, obviously knowing how many lives one has lived isn't generally readily apparent, but just assume that you 'know'. To whom would you give more respect and choose as your mentor? I need your opinions...I'll be choosing a mentor for myself in the future. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
  
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | I would pick who I am drawn to, regardless of age.
Out of those two, I probably would not pick either.
My mentors are Dean Telano and my dear students.  |
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| shalamOM - 2007-05-18 2:00 PM
Hypothetical: You have two yoga teachers. One is 20 years old, an old soul who has little life experience, but seems sort of wise and has obviously lived many lives. The other yoga teacher is 75 years old and has done yoga his entire life, but seems kind of child like, obviously a soul who is only on his first through tenth life.
Who do you choose as your one and only mentor? Do whom do you give more respect?
First, there's a BIG difference between immature, and child like. There's some precedence for looking for somebody who's got some child like qualities. That is to say things like joy, light heartedness, innocence, and flexibility.
OTOH, you have the other person who might be wise, or they could just be pessimistic and cynical. Cynicism is not necessarily wisdom, it's negativity.
Honestly, I'm also not all that big on the old soul/new soul thing. Usually it's personality we're talking about, rather than than something else. Most people who are considered old souls are really just jaded, and "new" souls are often people who just have a joy or innocence about them.
Why do you have to chose ONE and ONLY one? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | shalamOM - 2007-05-18 2:28 PM
Yeah, yeah, obviously knowing how many lives one has lived isn't generally readily apparent, but just assume that you 'know'. To whom would you give more respect and choose as your mentor? I need your opinions...I'll be choosing a mentor for myself in the future.
Shalom,
If you're having to ask a discussion board these questions, then I'd say you were not ready for a mentor. But, be careful, the guru manifests in many different ways. The teacher is never what they seem...it's like a feather on the wind....or the Tibetans had a saying about the "Dakini's Breath" - it was very swift and brief, over with before you knew...it came and went...or came and now it's gone. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Fun question to kick around, shalamom.  You've had some great answers here already. Are these actually your choices or are you just giving us a ferinstance? I have been called an old soul frequently in my life, especially when I was younger. Assuming the people who told me that had a clue and were correct, I would go with the older but wiser yogi as a mentor. While I may indeed have been around the karmic block more than a few times, I still was wet behind the ears and needed a LOT more life experience before I felt able to be properly useful as any sort of mentor. But in general I'd say look farther, look deeper and keep your eyes open. The real thing may not have arrived in your life yet |
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| purnayoga - 2007-05-18 2:07 PM
There is one liquid in a bottle, you can not see the liquid to determine it's nature. There is another liquid in a can. The can is new but you cannot see the liquid in it either. Which one do you drink from?
I've ben lurking here for nearly 3 years now and have decided to register to post this one observation then I'm off again. Purnayoga--you are the most obnoxious, egotistical, smug pain in the ass I've ever seen on this board. I went to your web site and can't imagine anybody dumb enough to give you money to perpetuate your ego. If there was ever anybody needing to look to themselves and correct inner demons it's you. My god, you must have had your ass whooped regualrly as a kid and are using the safety of the internet to strike back at society. Site owners and moderators, I thank you for this site and realize you may have to delete this and I understand but it needed to be said. |
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| MODS - Please leave Rick's post (above) on the board. It has value and he is entitled to express his opinion like anyone else. It should stand. I am sure some others feel that way and some others do not. ----
Shala...
Our opinions on who YOU give respect to do not really matter. This respect is yours to give. It is yours to dole out. It is your to connect with. We will support you regardless of which person you choose. It must however be one you CAN give your respect to.
A case could be made either way. Take the young Dalai Lama. Once verified as such, instant respect. And from the time he was five years old onward??
Neither of these people may be the light-shiner you seek or need. Or both may be. Why would you repect one more than the other? They both have value.
For me, as a person in my 40's I would have a hard time with a physical practice being led by someone who has not, in this life, experienced a mature physical body. Dana's daughter is an old sol. Very obvious. But I'm not ready for her to be teaching me Asana.
shalamOM - 2007-05-18 11:28 AM
Yeah, yeah, obviously knowing how many lives one has lived isn't generally readily apparent, but just assume that you 'know'. To whom would you give more respect and choose as your mentor? I need your opinions...I'll be choosing a mentor for myself in the future.
Edited by purnayoga 2007-05-18 9:28 PM
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| Cyndi - 2007-05-18 2:44 PM
If you're having to ask a discussion board these questions, then I'd say you were not ready for a mentor. But, be careful, the guru manifests in many different ways. The teacher is never what they seem...it's like a feather on the wind....or the Tibetans had a saying about the "Dakini's Breath" - it was very swift and brief, over with before you knew...it came and went...or came and now it's gone.
Well I just want a mentor or guru. Is that too much to ask? I'm not that young. If I wait any longer I won't even be able to do asana anymore. My former mentor was an exceptional instructor, but is going through hep C treatments and only wants to teach meditation. She is now saying that asana is destructive energetically  . So now I'm going through the process of finding another guru. I have five candidates and am painstakingly going through a thorough elimination process. |
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| shalamOM - 2007-05-18 2:00 PM
Hypothetical: You have two yoga teachers. One is 20 years old, an old soul who has little life experience, but seems sort of wise and has obviously lived many lives. The other yoga teacher is 75 years old and has done yoga his entire life, but seems kind of child like, obviously a soul who is only on his first through tenth life.
Who do you choose as your one and only mentor? Do whom do you give more respect?
I shall NOT choose any of the two only based upon the criteria given above or known above. I shall have my own criteria, out of which some are: a) whether he knows more than me, not in informative form, but experiential form b) whether I feel he is much greater than me. , ETC.
If both of them show all the qualities I desire, I shall choose the first one I meet.
If I meet both of them at the same time, I shall choose, the first one who comes to my mind.
If both come to my mind, and both are equal, I shall chose both, as in effect, both are Same.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | shalamOM - 2007-05-18 10:38 PM
Well I just want a mentor or guru. Is that too much to ask?
No, just be careful what you ask for, you might just get it....beyond anything you ever imagined possible,
I'm not that young. If I wait any longer I won't even be able to do asana anymore. My former mentor was an exceptional instructor, but is going through hep C treatments and only wants to teach meditation. She is now saying that asana is destructive energetically . So now I'm going through the process of finding another guru. I have five candidates and am painstakingly going through a thorough elimination process.
Okay, so when you narrow it down to 1or 2, then make a final decision and be done with it. I once had a guru tell me this, "first choice is best choice". I'm sure you'll figure it out. Best wishes and lots of luck. |
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| What does your gut say? In the first few seconds of having to make this decision, what instinctly feels right to you? If neither, then so be it. I think the problem here lies with trying to intellectually decide something that doesn't fall into the realm of intellect. Also there's the issue of having expectations as to what a mentor (or guru) means to you. Your mentor, if you even are to have one now, is someone that you are spiritually attracted to, in a way that's much larger than you, if that makes any sense. For me, this is not the person who I am learning asana from. For you or someone else, it might be, but I didn't need that from the person who I knew was to be my mentor, it was just irrelevant. It's kind of like deciding who will be your life partner based solely on their performance in the bedroom. Ideology and personal philosophy are what matter more, I believe. This should be a person whose mere presence will allow to make decisions better, rather than challenge you to make a decision about them. I see a mentor as someone who is a neutral and supportive backdrop for you, someone whose personal life, age, etc., isn't even an issue with respect to what you can learn from them. This is someone you can see without your eyes for who they are for you. For me, it was someone I "recognized" upon first meeting her, and I wasn't even looking for a mentor at the time. Well, I didn't know I was, let's put it that way. It's unfortunate you're being pressured to make a decision to "pick someone" like this. When the student is ready, the teacher will come, I remind myself of this phrase all the time. Also keep in mind that the most difficult people in your life are the ones you will learn the most from, in observing how you react to them, making them your gurus more so than the wise and kind folk. As Cyndi so aptly put it, careful what you ask for. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| OrangeMat - 2007-05-19 3:09 AM
It's kind of like deciding who will be your life partner based solely on their performance in the bedroom.
Oops! Too late on that one! 
Our lessons and teachers often appear where least expected. I don't know if I posted this story earlier, but I went to a talk recently by a swami. I was sure she had a special message for me and I listened carefully, bought her book, read it cover to cover and was surprised to not get that aha! moment. When I went back through the book, the message came loud and clear, but not in the body of the book. It was in the introduction that was written by another swami! So you have to be ready.
My first yoga teacher is still a puzzle to me. I don't understand why it works with us. She is athletic and I am not, we often seem to have communication breakdowns even after a ten year relationship. It is weird and I probably would not have chosen her if I had been presented with a choice (in case of lurkers, I say this with ALL respect!) but she is there and I learn from her and I think she learns from me as well. It just works and I don't question it. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Rick - I am leaving your post as is since Gordon has requested it. As you say you have been here awhile, I hope you have noticed that most of our debates are about issues and we try as best we can not to attack each other personally. If you decide to post here again, please keep that in mind.
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| Reckless - 2007-05-19 4:27 AM
purnayoga - 2007-05-18 2:07 PM
There is one liquid in a bottle, you can not see the liquid to determine it's nature. There is another liquid in a can. The can is new but you cannot see the liquid in it either. Which one do you drink from?
I've ben lurking here for nearly 3 years now and have decided to register to post this one observation then I'm off again. Purnayoga--you are the most obnoxious, egotistical, smug pain in the ass I've ever seen on this board. I went to your web site and can't imagine anybody dumb enough to give you money to perpetuate your ego. If there was ever anybody needing to look to themselves and correct inner demons it's you. My god, you must have had your ass whooped regualrly as a kid and are using the safety of the internet to strike back at society. Site owners and moderators, I thank you for this site and realize you may have to delete this and I understand but it needed to be said.
That's pretty funny.
I'm sure you don't need my validation Gordon, though I definately don't see you the same way that Rick does. I enjoy your posts.
Jonathon |
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| Hey Rick:
What is your response to 'Original Post Topic' or you have only something to say about PurnaYoga? it seems that you do not know the purpose of the Bulletin Board. Main thing is topic and person is secondary.
So, if you do not agree with Purna, tell that with clarification. At least his post is directly talking about the original post.
I wish you all the best in doing so. |
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| Rick made a valid point and I think he was quite brave to do so. Purna does have an 'edge' about him that has hurt my feelings a number of times. I usually choose to skip his posts. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Brave is not the word I would use. Challenging a person or their words/advice is one thing. Personal attacks are another. The hit and run approach is also questionable at best and a cowardly act (note - the act, not the person is in question). It is a bit like a party crasher barging in to a happy gathering, yelling at one of the people there then running away. At least stick around to finish what has been started. We know nothing about this person except that he doesn't like Gordon. He may be dashing around to the fishing boards, the car racing boards, the knitting boards and the political boards making pronouncements about the various members for all we know. I will stop now before I stoop to similar tactics myself.  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | For what's its worth, I too have felt like Reckless at times...not just towards Purna, there's some pretty interesting people that come and go on this forum. You wouldn't believe some of the PM's I get...sometimes it's like WTF???and so Bizarre. When I read Reckless's post, I almost peed in my pants, I couldn't believe it,  I knew I'd met a kindred spirit - just kiddn'
Having that said....Purna will eventually grow on you, he's really harmless. Afterall, he is a part of our yoga.com family and we ALL have our moments. We must learn how to tolerate and accept each other for our differences...it's very important and also very difficult sometimes. It makes you dig deep, very deep in the pit of your soul. See the "etiquette" thread and learn about Humour and how important it is for us to have a sense of it. For what's its worth, "Tolerance" is a virtue and a lost art. Perhaps it's situations like these that allow us to test our strength's and weakness's in that department (Tolerance and Compassion department that is).
Oh well...I know I can be a pain in the A$$ too. Ya'll have a good time, play nice, nice, suck face....and whatever else you can muster up, |
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| This has gotten so much more mileage than it deserves.
I do think there are a couple of rocks not yet flipped over.
The first is that more than 70% of communication is non-verbal. What that means is that we're only sending about 15% through this medium so "things get lost in translation" is an understatement. For this reason I do not use sarcasm in my posts but rather a safer levity and the use of anaolgies. It is this tool that is intended as instructional, not malicious.
Second is that I, of course, have an ego. It is no more or less than others (assuming we are all doing "the" work of yoga). It is checked by my peers, my students, my teacher and myself (through Svadhyaya). It is a work in progress and always shall be. The person who tells you they have no ego is subject to great scrutiny. I consider my posts carefully and frequently retract, delete, or recraft several times. As for my personality and it's checking, I'll weigh the comments offered above in order to create the most growth from them.
Third, we all have a style, approach, or philosophy based on our own authenticity of self. Sometimes that's a little murky, other times it's very murky. There are quite a few yoga personas with lilt. I simply don't have a lilt. A bit of an edge? Yes I have that and I'm working on that as well, not just in life but in teaching (and learning). However, here on the forum I simply try to get at the topic in a no-nonsense fashion which is my nature. I've never been a sugar-coater. I personally find that some bend over backwards so far to accomodate someone else's feelers that they are no longer true to their self.
When we are honest and authentic yes it is possible some feelings will be hurt. Trust that I am always considering you when I reply and there is nothing personal. When you gather with a group of yogis it should be self-evident that the discussion and interaction will be frank - moreso than the discussion at the water cooler or another board - because of the interconnective nature of the practice. Perhaps that is an erroneous assumption on my part however.
I have never composed with the intention of targeting someone else, discounting their feelings, or being rude (but have been and hope to continue to be direct and concise). If there's a safety issue you know I will say so. If it is a difference in style, perception, schools of thought, (and it's NOT a safety issue) then I intereact around the integrity of that. If the question is formed without enough information, I'll ask for more. If it is formed with care then it is reasonable to expect a similarly cared for reply.
In my experience, the actions that bother us deeply are triggers for our own unresolved issues, the areas where we are not fully processed through. I call it the "under my skin" principle. For me it used to be when people said I was short (5'8"). But I processed it (over time) and at that point it no longer bothered me when someone said it no matter what malice was behind it.
Finally, we mirror for each other. All we see is us. This is one of our grandest gifts in being on a crowded planet. The irritations we have in others are merely relfections of ourselves and we often do not like the shadow-self that is unprocessed or unacknowledged.
Edited by purnayoga 2007-05-20 2:02 AM
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| purnayoga - 2007-05-20 9:56 AM
The first is that more than 70% of communication is non-verbal. What that means is that we're only sending about 15% through this medium so "things get lost in translation" is an understatement.
90% of my day job as a management trainer is spent teaching the concepts of emotional intelligence, in a variety of business contexts.
Many humanistic psychologists agree (though some don't) that face to face communication breaks down to approx 7% words, 38% tone and 55% body language. As humans, we infer far more meaning from HOW a person speaks, than what they actually say.
On an internet forum, where we only have the words that a person writes as a medium to communicate, we tend to fill in the blanks of how we percieve that person to be and how they may sound as they write, often projecting an inner voice as well...
Unless we actually (physically) have experience of that person (i.e Mish has met Gordon, Cyndi has met Neel etc) we are ill informed to judge...
To avoid any miscommunications with my posts, I request that when you read them, please do so with a kind and loving inner voice because that is how I sound to myself when I write them...
Jonathon |
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| jonnie - 2007-05-20 4:09 AM Many humanistic psychologists agree (though some don't) that face to face communication breaks down to approx 7% words, 38% tone and 55% body language. As humans, we infer far more meaning from HOW a person speaks, than what they actually say. I believe this was one of the points Malcolm Gladwell was trying to make in his book Blink, though he never stated it as such. Yes, the self mirror is a much bigger element in how you understand what people are saying when all you have is words to look at. Adding emoticons helps, but not by very much. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Actually, there was a time on Earth when we didn't have computers, cell phones, faxes, etc. What we did have was letters and writing. That is how we communicated. Everything was left to the imagination and our intellect. This is a lost art in itself, because I think there is sooo much more to be conveyed when dealing with people. Writings can be very profound and have so much more meaning. There are people all over the world that I know from writing and the internet that are my dearest friends...some I've never even met before in person....most, I do not need to meet them in person and these relationships I hold very sacred. For instance, I never had to meet Neelbhai to know him, I recognized who he was long before I met him in person. If I didn't go the rest of my life without seeing him again, I am content with that.
Having that said....in person we sometimes put on our dog and pony show...the ACT. You know that phony act that people put on to be something they are not to the world!! When we write, the true person comes out. Most of us are not used to this, whereas some of us are. Some of us are in between, and we just deal with it as it comes. I think that is the reason I stay on this forum, because its a place where I can be myself, be accepted (most of the time) for who I am..EVERYTHING. It's really fun and there is so much freedom in that....but, at the same time, we have to govern ourselves....sometimes we cross over the boundaries and limitations....and its all okay. It teaches us how to forgive and get along....which is something that is sooo lacking in this world of micro-managing and all that other yucky stuff that goes on. |
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Respect question
