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| Hi Yogis,
I just yesterday noticed a thought that could of caused lots of suffering in future if it was not seen.
I'm 39 and noticing the body change.... noticed wrinkles on my face and a thought appeared " I should get wrinkle cream". I saw it and could see that resistance of the body changing through acting out on this thought would create a vasana. So thoughts kept coming , as they do, and the next one was "I'm not here on this planet for very long... it's the nature of the body to get old...I't's time for me now to start detatching from the body from looking young...This is the practice."
So, no wrinkle cream, I'm not going to resist the body changing, not going to start another vasana, not going to be attatched to this body , to this life. Focus on the Self.
acceptance.
Peace to all,
Soul
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| Interesting. |
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Expert Yogi
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| I'm 51. I use wrinkle cream - I just don't expect it to work very well  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I look at it this way. If I keep doing my yoga, I may live a very long life....SOOO, I think its really important to take care of the external body, because I have to live with it every day. It has nothing to do with being attached to it...it has everything to do with making sure it is vibrant and has a certain quality about it. Especially since we are faced with so many environmental pollutants these days...yuck!!
Honey works wonders for wrinkles, BTW. But, you knew I was gonna say that didn't ya,  |
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Michael
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| Cyndi - 2007-05-19 1:27 PM
I think its really important to take care of the external body. It has nothing to do with being attached to it...it has everything to do with making sure it is vibrant and has a certain quality about it.
Hey Cindi,
I agree it's important to take care of the body...It is our temple for now. We can love it and at the same time develop detatchment...
Peace,
Soul |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
| Hmm. Sounds like an interesting dilemma. I think there are 2 different things to consider here. One can care or take care for something without detachment. In fact, in the case of the human body (and others), one has a duty to take care for it. It is a gift, which however someday must be returned. Awareness towards the latter is complete detachment applied to the body. It is the last step before, well you know...
Vanity is yet another thing
Tw |
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| Hi Michael,
Just wondering why the pics of Krishnamacharya.
Hari Om,
Soul |
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| souljourney108 - 2007-05-19 8:07 PM
Hi Michael,
Just wondering why the pics of Krishnamacharya.
Hari Om,
Soul
Dear Soul: Please see my PM. |
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| souljourney108 - 2007-05-19 5:07 PM
Hi Michael,
Just wondering why the pics of Krishnamacharya.
Hari Om,
Soul
Hi Soul,
How quickly these days pass away and how soon are we among those who speak no more. The cage inevitably changes until the bird yearns to be fully free and to soar without restraint. These two pictures of Krishnamacharya show the changes (for me at least) of the vital ecstatic younger yogi and the older detached body at 110 years. This body, our companion, our testing ground, our vehicle, our trust from a generous and mysterious Benefactor unfolds for us all revealing finally the transient nature of all materiality. It coulda been any of us as a young, then older person... but in Krishnamacharya, for me, it is that attraction, that love, I feel for the help he has been to me... that which lives beyond his materiality. We have our breaths and the prompting of our hearts. Then we have only the promptings of the heart.
Michael |
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| Beautiful...
Hari Om,
Soul |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon | Getting in kind of late. One of the things I struggle with isn't getting old. Nope, at 40 I'm in the best shape of my life, due largely to Yoga. But even so, I still feel ugly. It's a ***** sometimes to look at yourself in the mirror for 90 minutes and not like what you see, even if the picture looks good on the outside. A different detachment than the original post, but I've allowed a false confidence get in the way of my progress. I've got to let go of the image on the outside. |
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| I could not understand this statement.
DJ Dre - 2007-07-10 8:59 PM
Getting in kind of late. One of the things I struggle with isn't getting old. Nope, at 40 I'm in the best shape of my life, due largely to Yoga. But even so, I still feel ugly. It's a ***** sometimes to look at yourself in the mirror for 90 minutes and not like what you see, even if the picture looks good on the outside. A different detachment than the original post, but I've allowed a false confidence get in the way of my progress. I've got to let go of the image on the outside. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Oregon | Gah. I've got to stop putting stuff out there, wish I could just delete it now. It's embarassing, really. For me, the detachment I'm striving for is to not let my body (best shape of my life, all sorts of comments on how I've lost weight, look good, etc.) give me any sense of confidence or fullfillment. It has I guess, but it's empty. If that doesn't make sense, not sure I can do any better. |
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| I understand what you are saying DjDre...
That's good awareness you have there. I have people around me talking of and getting face lifts at 40 and I am 39 now. For a woman, and for guys to a lesser extent I think, there is so much conditioning to look young(guys often look and are attracted to younger women),and so many people feel confident because of how they look. I think it is so wise to find a deeper confidence, find our true Self which never ages... to find confidence in the fact that we are not dependent on the body looking a certain way , for our happiness, because that will pass. Find confidence in our Self that always is present awareness. The silent One.
Blessings,
soul |
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| Hey DJ: It was not your problem that I did not understand, it was my limitation with the language. Now, I understand. My comment: No, you must actually feel a sense of confidence, and achievement, and beauty when you look in the mirror and find that you lost weight and got in good shape. You must also feel the same when others praise you for that. There is NOTHING non spiritual in it. Why?
Because, you did the Yoga Practice with that goal in mind, no doubt. And, you reached your goal. Fantastic. Now, what you need to do is to add more goal, such as study of Philosophy and meditation, etc. And, then practice accordingly.
And, when you feel sense of confidence now, use that sense to support your new practice and goal to reach that new goal.
Also, your having a good shape gives encouragement to others, not any disadvatage. Detachment from body does not mean a) denying the body b) making the body ugly
But, it means, going beyond Body and realizing that Body is temporary, but important, but Mind and Spirit are even more important.
DJ Dre - 2007-07-11 1:13 AM
Gah. I've got to stop putting stuff out there, wish I could just delete it now. It's embarassing, really. For me, the detachment I'm striving for is to not let my body (best shape of my life, all sorts of comments on how I've lost weight, look good, etc.) give me any sense of confidence or fullfillment. It has I guess, but it's empty. If that doesn't make sense, not sure I can do any better. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| DJ - I am glad you posted that statement. I think it is one of the things that people have on their minds but don't talk about. It is frankly a little disappointing to see the wrinkles etc. appearing as I feel my inner physical body actually stronger and healthier than when I was younger (51 now...). You could blame our youth culture or the media but I think that is a dead end. It actually makes sense to me that we would have a time of adjustment when major changes happen to our bodies, whether than change is for better or for worse. If a person was NEVER happy with their appearance, the adjustment is going to be even tougher. Personally, I have always been pretty content with how I look (though I loved it when people said I looked 10 - 20 years younger than my age - I have to admit it!  ) so it is just the aging that is an issue.
Luckily for me, I have many excellent role models around me of people who have aged without Hollywood-style assistance - women 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 years older than I am and look beautiful. I look to them for images of graceful and authentic aging, not faces that appear on screens and in print. It helps a lot |
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| Aging gracefully almost tends to feel like a contradiction in terms, I think. Fact is, the body does age, and coming to terms with that physical truth can be so hard for many to accept, let alone deal with on a day-to-day basis. And as you get older (I'm 45), you tend to notice those changes even more often than before. As my teacher has said many times, the only thing consistent in life is change. I like to use that statement as a mantra of sorts to comfort me whenever I find myself in that same mindset that DjDre mentioned (i.e. upset or discouraged with the fact that my body and appearance just aren't as "good" as they were several years, months or even weeks and days ago). It's just a natural process of life, this change. This is exactly what I believe the practice of yoga is about, dealing with these inevitable changes and shifts in life with grace, and not letting them disturb your peace. I've actually been spending quite a bit of time lately contemplating what that actually means, "with grace", but that discussion is for another thread.  |
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| From OM's post, I feel my previous understanding of original post even after DJ's explanation is wrong. I felt that she was not happy that she is attached to body which has improved and looks great due to Yoga, etc. But, from OM's post, I derive that she is attached to Body in the sense that she is worried about further decay of the body. Please correct me, so I can correct myself.
Peace |
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| You know, Neel, I'm not sure you did misunderstand DJ's post after all. I was commenting on Tourist's words, the concept of (physically) aging gracefully. Tangential musings and discussions here, all growing from a single thought, that's all. |
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| Let me add one more thing, and hopefully this will clarify things further (or maybe not!): as my journey with yoga has progressed these past several years, ALONG with the visible aging of my body, I'm finding myself a better sum of all of my parts. I truly like what I see in the mirror of my mind these days, if you know what I mean. No matter what my exercise path would be these days, I know my body would be relatively the same shape it is now. It's just easier to discount it, due to my yoga. Does that make me view myself as "better" than I really appear, on the surface to others? Perhaps. Do I still find myself evaluating my physical appearance separate from everything else that constitutes "me"? For sure. That's the social pressures aspect of it all. It's just getting less difficult to remember that I don't need to do that anymore, that's all. |
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| That's beautiful OM.
I find also, as the body gets older and I remember who I really am,
that I see beauty.
I feel beauty.
Not the conditioned beauty, the surface 'beauty'.
The real beauty that is not the body and not the mind and not the emotions.
May we all find and dwell in beauty.
Soul
Edited by souljourney108 2007-07-12 9:41 PM
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| Thanks for the wonderful posts OM, and souljourney.
Yes, we are not this body, which are mere conditioned material aggregates.
Some call it "soul", but we are consciousness. It's what makes us different from the inanimate stone, or even the beautiful plant.
Yoga is connecting that consciousness which is indestructible, to the Supreme Consciousness.
Edited by Kaos 2007-07-12 10:51 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon | I felt that he was not happy that he is attached to body which has improved and looks great due to Yoga, etc.
Neel, you got it right the second time around.
I came to Yoga first to heal a knee. I dabbled, the knee got better and left. I didn't come to Yoga to look good. I came back to heal my heart, and that's still a work in progress. There's a real incongruency between looking on the outside (looks good now) and what I'm feeling on the inside (still ugly).
There is some recent progress, though... I'm finally transitioning the posture practice out of the studio and into my everyday life. Some of that is connected to reading and exploring more from the Yoga Sutras to meditation. |
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| I am 56 and staying young with yoga. (My parents both died in their late 90's so I better take care of myself so I don't have to spend 20+ years in the nursing home!) Why do some of you look at the body as something to detach from? (That will happen soon enough!) If you are detaching from vanity, great, but your body is you. Your mind and the body are not in opposition to each other but are two aspects of the same thing just like matter and energy. E=MC2 is the same for your body as it is for the greater universe. This relationship is not just "out there"; it is also "in here." Physics has come to the same conclusion as the non-dualistic philosophers.
(The following are excerpts from copyrighted material: Yoga -The Art of Balance)
When we are born, we have a multitude of potential neural pathways in our brains, limited only by our genetics. As we grow and mature, we develop certain paths and use them over and over. The more often a thought, feeling or action is repeated, the stronger the neural pathways become that connect those specific brain cells (neurons). We always do certain things a certain way. We hold our cup the same, eat the same food, think the same thoughts, relive the same old hurts. After a while, these pathways are so ingrained, such deep ruts, that anything new is almost impossible. We are then caught in the equivalent of a computer loop, repeating the same old thing over and over. This is old age! It is optional!
Physical actions are in the present. When you learn a new pose, learn a dance or sport, try a new food, or learn to play a musical instrument, you are building new pathways. The new pathways that new actions build will lead to new thoughts and feelings as well. The mind and heart can only grow in a living body. A repetitive, machine-like body stops the growth and without growth, there is premature decay and death.
Mental and emotional responses are also often stuck in the past. How many times do we react to someone or something negatively in the present because of an association to some memory. Before you can change a mental/emotional pattern, you must see it clearly. Often people aren’t aware of repetitive thoughts and their related emotions and physical reactions. These repetitive thoughts may be impacting their health and happiness and they may be unaware of how insidious they are. This is where the practice of Yoga with awareness is important. When your attention is directed to your inner dialogue, these patterns can be clearly seen. Do you blame others? Do you blame yourself? Are you afraid? Do you judge? Do you force? Do you fight? Do you quit? Are you seeking escape? Whatever you do in your Yoga, you probably do in the rest of your life. You are either strengthening these old pathways or building new, more positive pathways. If you are not growing, you are dying. Let go of the past. The past is dead. You can only grow right now.
We experience our perceptions, not what actually is. All our perceptions are subjective and we can perceive almost anything that we believe by filtering out everything that does not fit our beliefs. The exterior world projects itself on our minds and our minds project their content on the exterior world. It is vital to perceive our world as objectively as possible and not color our perceptions with our prejudices (personal and cultural). Only then can we act and react in our own best interest and in the best interest of others and our environment. Direct perception (seeing without editorial comment, condemnation, identification, memory or desire) is as close to reality as we can get. Once our minds start interpreting, we get further and further from reality.
The observer and the observed are the same. They are both your mind. Even though what you observe may have an independent existence, what you are observing is in your mind, created by your mind. Your thoughts are your mind. The “you” that observes those thoughts is also your mind.
Your eyes see a flower. They don’t actually see the flower, but they do see the light that is reflected off the flower. That image travels through the optic nerve to the brain and is recreated by your mind in your mind. Your mind views the image and interprets it, calls it a flower, defines it as a rose, judges its qualities, remembers happy or unhappy memories related to roses, and your body reacts to those memories by tensing or relaxing, secreting various hormones and you experience various emotions. This entire movie that you just created is now stored in your mind and body. It has very little to do with the reality, the rose.
What happens if you see a flower and don’t name it, don’t use words in your head about it, don’t involve memory or desire, just see it? Find out for yourself!
That which is timeless is also ageless.
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detatchment from the body
