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Eating meat
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Cyndi
Posted 2008-02-07 1:09 PM (#103025 - in reply to #103019)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



Expert Yogi

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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
Sorry, but little children are NOT born with "nutritional" knowledge and "good" eating habits. They have to be trained and disciplined just like with anything...yoga, gardening, computers, language arts, history, social studies, etc. Even having been trained...in today's smorgasboard of food opportunities, it's not easy for them. A good example...my DS loves everything I cook, my healthy dinners and my healthy way of life. Last weekend my DS, who is 23 years old was home from college. We went on this looong hike in the mountains. I had to stop at the store for a couple of things. He could not wait until we got home to eat something. He grabbed 2 big un-healthy bags of MSG laden Lays potato chips. I reminded him several times about his headaches and facial pimples....but still, he wanted those chips. DD was in the car too. She was hungry, but she KNEW what the results would be if she ate those chips, so therefore, she was the smart one and waited till we got home. DS (dear son) was grouchy and grumpy the next day. I knew why. I allowed him to make an adult decision...I could of pushed it and gave him a really hard time, but I knew he knew better and he did make a small effort to read some other labels on some other chips....they all had MSG. Although....he could of chosen plain chips instead. Oh well...For the record, my son mostly shops at Whole Foods Markets and eats mostly healthy - 85% of the time. He drinks water and green tea mostly. His roommates in college make fun of his eccentric lifestyle, BUT, they all sure do love it when he cooks a healthy meal for them..and calls me for directions!!

American Adults are not just fat from eating. There are sooo many other causes. In fact, watch Oprah Winfrey today. They are doing a segment on clutter in people's homes is also a factor and causing people to be overweight....its very interesting. You know....CONSUMERISM - it's some mighty powerful stuff going on here!

Thanks Tourist, I knew you would understand,

For the record...I did not pay for my DS bags of chips...he did,

Edited by Cyndi 2008-02-07 1:13 PM
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-07 1:27 PM (#103033 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


I was just having a conversation with my daughter this morning about people who choose to eat meat and folks that hunt,

and

what we actually are-->No longer is it necessary to hunt for sustenance, you can actually choose from the bounty available

Nutritionally you can make decisions that don't impact your health or your karma without much effort in the overwhelming abundance of food choices in the United States and much of the world.

Just a couple generations ago, my family had to hunt to survive.

I've met folks who still have to do so.

I'm not one of those people and anyone with internet certainly isn't.

If you have the money for a computer and internet access you have ample wealth to make choices based on variables other than survival.

So, since food choices aren't about your own survival, why not consider otherwise.

I'm very amazed at how some people, children included, my oldest daughter especially, consider things like eating mammals, as a mammal personally as odd<--when it's not necessary for survival. Also, eating something that procreates just like we do, seems odd to my daughter. This March 1st will be one year that I've not eaten meat, or eggs, no fish or seafood of any sort, and I don't miss it.

Food choices in the vast wealth and abundance that we live our lives within must be made with other things in mind than simply

physical pleasure
flavor
tradition


otherwise, why even portray oneself as a student of Yoga?

All nutritional needs can be met without meat, so why, as a serious student of Yoga living in the wealthy abundance that we bask in, would you eat it?

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Posted 2008-02-07 3:11 PM (#103048 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


actually, i think that limits can be taught in a positive way and go hand-in-hand with guidance.

in yoga, we have the mantras "sat yam" (i am this; truth) and "sat nam" (i am not this; not truth). by utilizing both a positive and a negative exploration, we discover the nature of being.

in this way, setting limits needn't be a negative experience, particularly if it is backed with guidance. notice that Cyndi guided her young-adult son and her near-adult (teen) daughter. At their ages, they have the information and capacity for making an informed choice because she has informed them.

were her children younger, she may have said to her son, "no, because that has MSG which is unhealthy for you." this is setting a limit, while also providing guidance. it's very different than a simple, negative. And it is this that actually leads to the adult son having an "alternative lifestyle" in college.

as a small child, i remember my mother's rules about playing outdoors--you can play in the front or back yard, as far as the sidewalk in the front, and do not leave the yard at all. do not go into the street. do not speak to strangers, but feel free to introduce yourself to children if you do not know them.

this was often backed up with clear instruction about why we didn't talk to strangers or wander away from the yard without permission and so on. it was about safety and limits.

Today, i can decide for myself whether or not i want to speak to someone whom i do not know or what have you--but that is because i have the skills taught to me through the limits and guidance of my parents and my culture at large. my discernment may not be 100% accurate based on this training, but it is a helpful tool that i still use.

I agree that simply taking a negative--don't do this, don't do that (as my husband was raised)--leads to a lot of confusion and shame. why do others do these things? and if they do, are they bad? and if i want to, or if i do, am i bad?

my husband was raised in a world of strict social rules--spoken and unspoken--and the chronic specter of fear/anxiety that he was unworthy of love and that he must work hard to follow the rules, be right, and earn his place in his family's esteem.

i know how horrible it can be. but that is an extreme use of limits, one that is soul-killing. I think it is possible--since i was raised that way myself--to set limits that keep individuals safe and happy, while explaining how and why those limits function toward that purpose.
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Cyndi
Posted 2008-02-07 6:58 PM (#103072 - in reply to #103048)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
Steve,

I really take a lot of issue with your statements regarding "portraying yourself as a yoga student". This is the most dogmatic, rigid and orthodox mindset I've ever heard of and is totally BS!

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Cyndi
Posted 2008-02-07 7:12 PM (#103073 - in reply to #103023)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Posts: 5098
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Hey ZB,

Tell Ryan I am soo sorry he had to grow up that way. I think most of us here in the West have to some degree. Its something weird in this culture...I have some ideas but am afraid to post it here, I think you know though, However, some of us were able to break away from our parents and those kinds of environments, in my case it was my Father. But, there were life lessons to be learned from all my experiences and I would not take any of it back. I am glad. I just don't like being around him today, he's kinda creepy, but I can visit for a day, say every 6 months or once a year,

Anyway, with my children, I ALWAYS tell them why and give an explanation. I think that is the key to my success in parenting - at least here in America since parents always have to justify everything we do and say and have no rights pretty much. Not to mention all the other pressures from peers and society, it's very difficult to be a parent here in this country, but in some ways, in my case, we broke out of the mainstream and therefore, parenting is actually quite easy and very nice. There were times when they were small when I didn't always have an explanation, we just lived the example and that produced habits and discipline for them. I noticed with my Nepalis family that they didn't question their parents authority and what parents did and said was the gospel truth no matter what. Boy did I get a taste of that last month meeting my In-laws!! The Italian culture was also very simple. Not as rigid and real laid back. Most of the teenagers drank Vino and get this...alot of them smoked cigarettes. They even had smoking areas at the schools for the kids. BUT, the kids and teenagers were so well rounded, well behaved and it was totally cool. I really liked the environment, so did my daughter. No one made big deals about anything and yet, at the same time, the kids ate really nice food...in the evening it was ensalada (salads) /bread and pasta/meat/veggies/bread in the daytime. The desserts were not heavily ladened with sugar, they were slightly sweetened.....Such a great place!! Those expresso's to keep ya going too, LOL!!

Edited by Cyndi 2008-02-07 7:19 PM
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-07 8:09 PM (#103077 - in reply to #103072)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Cyndi - 2008-02-07 6:58 PM

Steve,

I really take a lot of issue with your statements regarding "portraying yourself as a yoga student". This is the most dogmatic, rigid and orthodox mindset I've ever heard of and is totally BS!



I said 'serious' student.

and simply labeling my statements instead of dealing with the issues and arguments I present is the worst kind of dogma.

Remember, Cyndi, the finger that points out receives 100 more pointing back.

Now, not to confuse the meat eating issue and Yoga with your personal 'issues', Cyndi, I ask again

Why would you choose to eat meat, as a serious student of yoga, in light of the healthy food choices with no karmic impact abound?

We don't live in the mountains of Nepal, we aren't herders, we aren't hunter gatherers, we have enough spare time to sit and type on an internet forum when we should really be exercising or performing our devotions.

Or is it more about winning the argument than being serious about Karma, and Yoga?

You can sequester yourself behind your firewall and refer to me as dogmatic, if that brings you peace, but what kind of peace is it?

Have you really faced up to your inner dogmas? When will you decide to stop projecting?

Cyndi? You really to have a way of turning the discussion "edit" into a discussion
edit" about your subjection.







Edited by SCThornley 2008-02-07 8:11 PM
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-07 8:24 PM (#103078 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Like tonight, I had a salad and some stuffed shells, so did my two older daughters, my youngest wanted some salad and a piece of garlic bread with some melted cheese on it.

My son, ate some leftover steak that my wife had cooked.

I don't stop anyone from eating what they want, but not everyone is serious about being conscious of how their food choices impact, personally and globally.

I don't expect anyone to think like I do, that simply would not be enjoyable.

I don't even expect any of my own family to eat like I choose.

But isn't this a discussion board about Yoga?

Doesn't Yoga have something to do with Peace?

Maybe I'm mistaken, maybe what I should do is go back to my studies and meditations.

seems like the flying spaghetti monster has his noodly appendage in this somewhere.










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Cyndi
Posted 2008-02-07 8:37 PM (#103081 - in reply to #103078)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Posts: 5098
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
Maybe you should read your own posts Steve and let others make their own choices. After all it is MY practice isn't it??? NOT yours!
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-07 8:57 PM (#103082 - in reply to #103081)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Cyndi - 2008-02-07 8:37 PM

Maybe you should read your own posts Steve and let others make their own choices. After all it is MY practice isn't it??? NOT yours!


Cyndi, you must stop acting like a spoiled child.

You are not furthering the discussion with this banter, go to your room until you can behave like an adult.


Please address the finer points dealing with Yoga and diet and Karma in the context of how we live, which includes much wealth, much time, computers, internet access, freedoms beyond any known before these times, I mean really the list goes on.

Is there really any good reason, Yoga-wise, to eat meat? Especially when you can get everything you need without it.

All you have to do is get well educated about nutrition and your own health, and maybe a trip to a professional dietitian or nutritionist, maybe even an allergist, whatever it takes, the options are there. I mean really, if you can afford a computer, the electricity, the internet connection, and all the rest of what goes along with it, you could afford all these other much more important things. Things that would certainly be more important than satisfying one's hunger with whatever you wish to eat.

I don't starve, I really like sweet potato, and have been eating a lot of them.

Sweet potato is very good, and tasty, and helpful.



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Spirittap
Posted 2008-02-07 9:00 PM (#103083 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Don't bother, Steve. There is a reason why i limited my posts to Cyndi. You only have to look back a couple pages to her early responses to this thread. When someone goes on about how something is bs and how no one should bother debating the issue with her because they'll lose, that says a lot.

I wonder which yoga teacher teaches intolerance for the opinions of others. Are you supposed to say "bs" when you breathe in or when you breathe out?
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jli
Posted 2008-02-08 4:14 AM (#103091 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


As with everything, the most important is to try to balance all that you eat. As far as I'm concerned you better try lamb. Hunting meat is good but as I said don't take too much and ensure you have the freshiest possible. For me if you don't feel comfortable stop eating meat, stick to your portion control.
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-08 6:30 AM (#103094 - in reply to #103091)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


jli - 2008-02-08 4:14 AM

As with everything, the most important is to try to balance all that you eat. As far as I'm concerned you better try lamb. Hunting meat is good but as I said don't take too much and ensure you have the freshiest possible. For me if you don't feel comfortable stop eating meat, stick to your portion control.


This really touches on one reason in a host of reasons why I stopped eating meat.

It didn't taste fresh, and one thing lead to another.

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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-08 6:41 AM (#103095 - in reply to #103083)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Spirittap - 2008-02-07 9:00 PM

Don't bother, Steve. There is a reason why i limited my posts to Cyndi. You only have to look back a couple pages to her early responses to this thread. When someone goes on about how something is bs and how no one should bother debating the issue with her because they'll lose, that says a lot.

I wonder which yoga teacher teaches intolerance for the opinions of others. Are you supposed to say "bs" when you breathe in or when you breathe out?


It takes all kinds.

This isn't the first discussion on these boards where someone has 'taken issue' or 'taken offense'.

But really back to the discussion.

I really do believe and have personal proof through my own practice that not eating meat does help with my development as a serious Yoga student.

There are many, MANY, facets to practice, and diet is just one, but everything is connected.

I've looked around and haven't yet found a 'teacher' who promotes eating meat as a path to enlightenment, but maybe someday.






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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-02-08 7:59 AM (#103098 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Hey Brother SCT: All those goodies you mention of your menus, I am keen on eating some of them. When can we meet?
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-08 10:30 AM (#103112 - in reply to #103098)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


kulkarnn - 2008-02-08 7:59 AM

Hey Brother SCT: All those goodies you mention of your menus, I am keen on eating some of them. When can we meet?


Brother Neel, much love.

Soon.

I was in Clinton, MD not too long ago, performing work for my father, and that was the closest I came to your neighborhood, in nearly 5 months.

I installed a tile floor for a bathroom for him.

When I'm not at home with my continuous drum beat schedule, I end up farming myself out to perform work for other family, as I am the only son.


I've a sweet potato and 2 large apples for lunch today.


Not that a diet alone will lead us to enlightenment but every little thing makes a different, with every breath, and every step.


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Posted 2008-02-08 10:31 AM (#103113 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


cyndi:

yes, it's exactly how i was raised, and it works really well. it does make for stubborn adults though. my parents have this running joke about how my being "this way" is "her fault" or "his fault." it's pretty funny.

i think that my situation with my in laws has improved a lot once i figured out that part fo the reason that she freaks out is because it is rooted in care but also with a strong sense of powerlessness to help someone. for example, for whatever reason it is "wrong and bad" to allow children to go barefoot--even in bed. i have no clue why, and she can't explain it either. but worst of all is letting your children play outside barefoot. that's the worst crime ever!

so, her neighbor is a rather hippy, home-schooling mom (another thing she doesn't agree with), and she takes her kids outside to play in the front yard, or to garden or whatever--without shoes on! the horror!

because my MIL fears for their safety (in regards to their feet) but also knows that she has no right to say anything to this woman and even if she did say something, this woman likely wouldn't follow her good advice, she feels incredibly powerless. And then it comes out as this incredibly burdened, whining and judging fit.

and then that gets turned around into lashing out at someone close to her, whom she does feel she has some power over (mostly ryan). during the said situation above, ryan happened to be missing a button from his coat, and she freaked out on him for "looking so horrible" and "not taking care of himself" and on and on. . .finally he realized she was set off by the lost button, and that it was relaly because she felt powerless that the neighbor's children were playing outside without shoes.

what a hard way to live, no? how sad?

and yeah, i totally get you on the europe thing.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-02-08 10:54 AM (#103119 - in reply to #103112)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Dear Bro SCT: In the past I was jelous of your kids and thought you should have been my Dad. Now, I am jealous of your Father and think you should have been my son.

For the past 3 or 4 days, I only ate fruits for lunch, to the total amount of 1 banana and 2 oranges or slightly more. This is what ate in a list form: kiwi, banana, cantaloupe, orange, apple.

Apart from that in the nights I ate a simple meal of : salad, Whole Oats/BrownRice/WholeMillet/WholeCrackedWheat and Olive Oil/ Sesame paste.

And, i can guarantee you that: a) I did not loose weight b) I was quite energetic in 10 classes that I taught. And, I am sure I did not loose any nutrients, because I am doing the same for years.

Of course, for a young person, I advise to eat more. I am 50+, you know. So, I eat half of what I used to a few years ago, and I am eating 1/10th of what I ate when I was in College.

Thank God, I am economic.


SCThornley - 2008-02-08 10:30 AM

kulkarnn - 2008-02-08 7:59 AM

Hey Brother SCT: All those goodies you mention of your menus, I am keen on eating some of them. When can we meet?


Brother Neel, much love.

Soon.

I was in Clinton, MD not too long ago, performing work for my father, and that was the closest I came to your neighborhood, in nearly 5 months.

I installed a tile floor for a bathroom for him.

When I'm not at home with my continuous drum beat schedule, I end up farming myself out to perform work for other family, as I am the only son.


I've a sweet potato and 2 large apples for lunch today.


Not that a diet alone will lead us to enlightenment but every little thing makes a different, with every breath, and every step.


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Posted 2008-02-08 11:51 AM (#103122 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


i'm just hungry these days, and i have no restrictions. but here are my meals for yesterday:

water with lime, apple and orange for breakfast;

water with lime and cuban-style black beans with monteray jack cheese (4 servings of beans/cheese!) for an extended lunch time;

water with lime and frozen berries (thawed) with plain yogurt;

water with lime and vegetarian onion soup with rye bread and cheese melted over, nice tossed salad with warmed honey-mustard (i made it!) dressing.

hot tea (herbal--orange spice) with 1/2 almond-butter (raw) and strawberry preserves (sugar free and local!) on sprouted grain bread.

i'm sorta back to eating normal. now i'll start gaining weight, i bet.
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Cyndi
Posted 2008-02-08 12:14 PM (#103124 - in reply to #103122)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Well, I haven't had any meat since Sunday. Satyam made his famous Goat, Nepali style. It's very good and eating it usually lasts me for several days. Because here it is Friday.....although, I'm planning to eat some fresh wild caught fish this weekend when I go to the Farmer's Market. I really want some Little Neck Clams with some Linguini...I'm craving bigtime!!

One thing Satyam did make for me before he left for out of town was fresh Methi (Fenugreek) leaves with aloo (potato). My pee smells like Methi...it's driving me nuts!! But, this stuff really cleanses your kidneys and liver. It's working great! So, that has been my lunch, along with rice, pasta and bread. I don't like to eat much rice these days...I get so tired of rice even brown and wild rice pilaf's get old and I have to switch around - alot. But, mostly I eat pasta w/ a vegetable along with fresh baked bread and olio....and of course, fresh grated Parmesan Reggiano...gotta have it!

In the evenings...I've been sticking with my Italian diet of Ensalada and the wonderful Olio that I brought back from Italia...it's sooo good. I just take my lettuce and add a squeeze of Myer Lemons (these lemons are divine!!), the fresh olio, tomatoes, green and kalamata olives, fresh mozzerella and a touch of sea salt. Sometimes, instead of lemon, I do the Balsamic Vinegar from MODENA...OMG, this stuff is good too!!

Last night I had my leftover Minestrone with my ensalada, because I skipped lunch due to playing on a Certified Organic Farm yesterday. I've been asked to take care of the bees in exchange for...you'll love this ZB...raw milk, cheese and fresh eggs and a percentage of the certified organic honey that I help the bees make. I get to keep the wax for my candles too. I have to start these bees from scratch and re-build their colonies using strict organic methods...I'm sooo excited!

Okay, Bon Appetito Ya'll.

Ciao Ciao
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Posted 2008-02-08 12:35 PM (#103128 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


cyndi:

i have to say that pastured chickens give the tastiest eggs. the yolks are orange! raw milk is great and makes the best butter, the best yogurt, and the best ice cream ever! i love my home-made ice cream made with raw milk and raw cream. it hardly takes any sugar at all (enough to make it freeze properly).

and, working in exchange is the bomb!

i love salad again! i'm so happy i can eat veg again! i had such an aversion for a while!
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-02-08 2:35 PM (#103141 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainable-Farming/2008-02-01/What-You-Need-to-Know-About-the-Beef-You-Eat.aspx

consider not buying Grocery Store or Wal-Mart Beef, and really think about where the meat you may or may not want to eat
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Posted 2008-02-08 3:05 PM (#103146 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


yeah, that's what ryan does. he knows here his food comes from. it's local. pasture raised. small scale or on the farm slaughter.
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Cyndi
Posted 2008-02-08 3:14 PM (#103147 - in reply to #103146)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
Me too. That is why my bee farm is a farm partner with the Appalachain Sustainable Agricultural Project (ASAP) here in North Carolina. Yes, eat local. But, NO Beef for me though,
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