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| shalamOM - 2007-05-03 11:28 AM
Through practicing Yoga, a lot of times, people are opened up to a whole new frontier where they see that they are not shackled by the slavery of cultural norms, or tradition and have the ability to choose and develop a value system based on their own thoughts and their own truth.
I agree with this, but one has to make sure that they don't just become 'shackled' by yoga cultural norms.
IMO
cultural norms is not Yoga
of course, quite a few people who practice asana 'think' they own the rights to what is Yoga, but, IMO
that ain't Yoga.
peace on your face, from me to you |
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| Cyndi - 2007-05-03 12:01 PM
Hey Shalom, I can assure you that those un-healthy family members are more un-healthy due to all those medications they take, rather than not being a vegetarian. In second place, I vote that junk food is laced with all sorts of chemicals and MSG!!!!  You guys would really freak out if you were at my house. First of all, my children are not allowed to be vegetarian. Yep, that's right. Been there and done that with complete failure. In fact, I tell my daughter she has to eat a certain amount. This BS of allowing children to make food decisions is crazy. Whoever wants to debate this issue with me, you'll loose and it's not worth the conversation. As my daughter gets older and practices more yoga with me, this rule will probably change, but for now, this is the way its going to be. Anyway, some of the very best yogi's I've ever met were from Tibet, where they ate meat. Some of the worst yogi's I've ever met were from India and are vegetarian. Ya'll have a great day, 
I don't force my kids to eat anything
They eat what they can get, I try to offer good choices, but I don't force it, and I don't believe you do either, although you're coming across as if you would force it
Like my mother, her mother, my father and almost any old person will tell you, when the kid is hungry they will eat, but like I said, when they are hungry I try to provide good choices |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | If you consider a "requirement" to eat meat forcing...then I suppose I do force and frankly, I don't care. Sometimes you have to 'force' children to do certain things because if you leave the choice to a child, they mostly will choose the same items over and over and/or only items "they" like. Even a handful of good food items can turn into bad food choices because eating the same items over and over can be bad for you. The practice establishes poor eating habits while children's bodies are developing. Eating Brocolli every sngle day is a bad choice. The good news is that we live in a culture where we have the perfect opportunity to expose our children to all kinds of "nutritious" food items. In my home, my children are required to eat a little of EVERYTHING that I cook, with the exception of pork or chicken, kidney and livers....unless they need the nutrition from that food item, then I cook it in a way that is more pleasing to their taste. The bad news is that most people don't have the background that I do when it comes to eating properly, mindfully and most of all...with a sense of balance that should tomorrow we wake up and find ourselves with poor food choices, whether it be visiting relatives, financially poor that month due to slow business, or whatever reason, we would have NO problems whatsoever with our survival. Last week, I ate 3 - healthy mind you, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for my main meal...for no reason other than I just felt like it - |
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| Cyndi - 2007-05-03 12:01 PM
Hey Shalom, I can assure you that those un-healthy family members are more un-healthy due to all those medications they take, rather than not being a vegetarian. In second place, I vote that junk food is laced with all sorts of chemicals and MSG!!!!
Yes, true. I wasn't saying that they should be vegetarian to be healthy....It's just that they take the junk to the extreme. I witnessed my aunt eat a bag of chips with some kind of dip for an early breakfast. Even my father who is not into health at all was in shock by his family's habits. My grandparents used to cook very wholesome old world recipes, but things have sure changed for the worse. It made me sad in a way too...I miss my grandmother's Italian dinners. They sure beat chip and dip. |
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| Cyndi - 2007-05-03 2:11 PM
If you consider a "requirement" to eat meat forcing...then I suppose I do force and frankly, I don't care. Sometimes you have to 'force' children to do certain things because if you leave the choice to a child, they mostly will choose the same items over and over and/or only items "they" like. Even a handful of good food items can turn into bad food choices because eating the same items over and over can be bad for you. The practice establishes poor eating habits while children's bodies are developing. Eating Brocolli every sngle day is a bad choice. The good news is that we live in a culture where we have the perfect opportunity to expose our children to all kinds of "nutritious" food items. In my home, my children are required to eat a little of EVERYTHING that I cook, with the exception of pork or chicken, kidney and livers....unless they need the nutrition from that food item, then I cook it in a way that is more pleasing to their taste. The bad news is that most people don't have the background that I do when it comes to eating properly, mindfully and most of all...with a sense of balance that should tomorrow we wake up and find ourselves with poor food choices, whether it be visiting relatives, financially poor that month due to slow business, or whatever reason, we would have NO problems whatsoever with our survival. Last week, I ate 3 - healthy mind you, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for my main meal...for no reason other than I just felt like it -
exerpt
The bad news is that most people don't have the background that I do
and that's OK
it takes all kinds
I used to eat the sort of things you talk about, but you know, the folks/idea/culture/knowledge from Tibet, India, Nepal or wherever one believes the fountain flows from..........
eh, whatever
I don't wanna get fiesty
Maybe, I'm just reading you in a way that might not be what you intended.
I know that humans can have a very healthy life not eating meats, and that whether one eats meats or not, it does not necessarily have any bearing on their 'Yogi'ness.
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Yes, true. I wasn't saying that they should be vegetarian to be healthy... I knew that....but since we were on this 'vegetarian' thread...I was trying to be consistent? It's just that they take the junk to the extreme. I witnessed my aunt eat a bag of chips with some kind of dip for an early breakfast. Even my father who is not into health at all was in shock by his family's habits. My grandparents used to cook very wholesome old world recipes, but things have sure changed for the worse. It made me sad in a way too...I miss my grandmother's Italian dinners. They sure beat chip and dip. Geez. I find it interesting that most people do not know how to cook these days and all they eat is what is readily and cheaply available. I'm sure this is the case for your grandparents. My college son says he doesn't like to come to my house when I'm not here, he says I have nothing to eat. My husband says he could live in my house for 4 months and never go hungry. Go figure. As for your grandparents...I find that to be the case with everybody's grandparents and even my own parents. I hate the way they eat. They love living close by to every restaurant chain known today. They eat steak one night, Mexican another, Thursday's Italian night, and Friday is Fried Fish night from Captain D's, then they cook homecooked food that comes straight from a can and everything they buy is cheap food that either comes from Sam's Club or the usual grocery store chains that do not promote organic healthy foods. To top all this off, a normal athletic person might be able to deal with this type of eating, but, these people are sedentary, they go home and stay constipated for days and then wonder why they're so fat and/or unhealthy and sick. Then you have the vegetarians who eat just as much un-healthy food because they're uneducated about their body's needs and such - they seem to eat all the wrong things especially carbs and sugar because they're body's are so lacking in protein and vital nutrients...anyway, we've had this discussion so many times on yoga.com. For what its worth..I was a good vegetarian - I ate everything "right". I'd never been so un-healthy in my life. Thanks but no thanks. There are so many truth's in some of those books, eat right for your type - yadda yadda. Even in Ayurvedic terms....eating meat is necessary for some people...especially in this western society. Oh well. Chips and dips anyone??? Let's throw a party.  One of my old time favorites was French Onion Dip with Plain Ruffles potato chips. This was in the good ole' days before MSG!!
Edited by Cyndi 2007-05-03 5:50 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Kids - I am constantly appalled by what some kids bring in their lunches. I try to make it clear to parents, as I am often dealing with new parents of one year olds, that their child is in no way qualified to make nutritional choices at 11 months or 18 months of age! That will usually get their attention I empathize with having to try and feed a little one and work and often being single. It is tough, I'm sure. But it is funny to see the same child one day get organic sprouted bread and tofu everything and the next day with bilious pink cherryblastalicious "yogurt" product in a plastic squeeze tube  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 475
Location: canada | tourist - 2007-05-03 6:52 PM
Kids - I am constantly appalled by what some kids bring in their lunches.
sometimes its not the parents...maybe its what they give the kids at the schools to eat, |
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| I think it's important to recognise that a healthy diet is independent of being vegetarian or not. Unfortunately, I know many fat, diabetic vegetarians.
I'm vegetarian for Karmic reasons, though my diet is healthy for health reasons and I always avoid processed food.
My son will not be vegetarian, (on my wife's orders ) though I will insist on sourcing the healthiest meat products available for him and minimise in intake of junk.
Jonathon |
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| I was raised on your typical American diet. When I was 16, I decided to be come vegan. I've been vegan for 11 years now. My wife also decided to do it as well. She's been vegan for over a year now and we both feel better than ever. Of course, even vegan/vegetarian diets can be done badly.
Like others have suggested, try to cut out meat a day or two of the week. When you slowly transition into it, it works very nicely. You just have to have the right frame of mind as well. It can be healthy, and very beneficial to the planet.
I could talk forever about veganism, but you'll figure things out for yourself. At least your giving it a shot. Good luck!
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| It's such an interesting subject. I've gone back and forth between eating it and not eating it. Now I am eating it but in moderation. I have ulcerative colitis so no way can I eat a vegetarian diet. I do believe it does not benefit your body much to eat dead animals. Very little energy in it and its addictive because of the acid in it.
I see a lot of vegetarians that are sickly and have a lot of neurotic food inhibitions and are very unbalanced people. But I can also tell you I have met very few people who eat good diets that are in the hospital. I am an RN and I do beleive their is a relationship between those who eat a good diet and their health. The hospitals are full of people who eat bad diets, take a lot of medicines and are waiting for doctors to improve their healths (that's worth a laugh).
What is the answer? Eating smaller meals of unprocessed foods and seeing how you feel. Be your own guage of how foods process through your body. And stay off your high horse in comparing your diet to others. |
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| Ram - 2007-12-17 1:41 PM
What is the answer? Eating smaller meals of unprocessed foods and seeing how you feel. Be your own guage of how foods process through your body. And stay off your high horse in comparing your diet to others.
EXCELLENT!!! |
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| I forgot to add an excellent source is Gabreal Cousens book "spiritual nutrition". This man lives what he writes. Its an incredible source. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | realmxofxnoise - 2007-12-17 4:00 PM
Like others have suggested, try to cut out meat a day or two of the week. When you slowly transition into it, it works very nicely. You just have to have the right frame of mind as well. It can be healthy, and very beneficial to the planet.
This is how I also feel about the subject. I eat mostly wildcaught fish and seafood from the waters that I am comfortable with. I don't eat anything from asian waters. Eating meat once or twice a week seems to jive with my body, while the rest of my days are a simple grain and vegetable. Lately, me and my daughter have been into pasta. I have a simple recipe where I pick one pasta, then I take some scallions and garlic, saute' in olive oil, toss in some french green beans (cut to 1/4"), maybe a mushroom or 2, then add some Italian parsley....Meanwhile, I grate some really nice Parmigiano Reggiano (whole foods has this really premium aged variety that I adore the flavor of), I drain the pasta, then I add the vegetables, then mix the Parmigiano...add some more fresh parsley and Walla, great meal!!
For variations to this...we sometimes do asparagus and mushrooms, littleneck clams, or add some cooked bacon or proscuitto, or some diced tomatoes at the end...this is sooo simple. You can do either vegetarian or not. The neat thing is that when you do use meat, you only need a small tiny amount and the nutrition is there. Actually, parsley has sooo much nutrition, I could live on that by itself for my vegetable.
Also...I love vegan food. My favorite cookbook is by the Hawaiin Restaurant "The Blossoming Lotus". Their Vegan World Fusion Cuisine is absolutely divine. This book is chock full of healing recipes and information. I love it! They just recently released another book that is on my Christmas wish list to myself. I can't wait to see this book. |
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| Cyndi - 2007-12-18 11:04 AM
This is how I also feel about the subject. I eat mostly wildcaught fish and seafood from the waters that I am comfortable with. I don't eat anything from asian waters. Eating meat once or twice a week seems to jive with my body, while the rest of my days are a simple grain and vegetable. Lately, me and my daughter have been into pasta. I have a simple recipe where I pick one pasta, then I take some scallions and garlic, saute' in olive oil, toss in some french green beans (cut to 1/4"), maybe a mushroom or 2, then add some Italian parsley....Meanwhile, I grate some really nice Parmigiano Reggiano (whole foods has this really premium aged variety that I adore the flavor of), I drain the pasta, then I add the vegetables, then mix the Parmigiano...add some more fresh parsley and Walla, great meal!!
That does sound delicious. Being Italian, of course I'm rather obsessed with pasta. Don't forget, it's good for you too! :- )
I definitely think if you're going to eat meat (such as yourself) stick with the fish. If you choose to eat other varieties of meat, stick with organic, free range, grass fed. The typical factory farming meat/dairy industry is not only harming you with what food they are giving you, they are also destroying the planet.
Just to give another perspective to things, keep in mind I'm a 27 year old Male that is 6'4", 238lbs (and dropping). Most people would think I'm some hippie left over from the 70's or something. I just did some major research and figured out what I needed to do for myself.
I hope all is well :- )
Nick |
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| I don't eat meat,
I used to eat it.
I've run a lot of sample analysis on meats, especially fish, and from the perspective of analytical chemist who has looked at a lot of samples
say
tens of thousands of fish sample data from all over the globe from different bodies of water
I wouldn't eat fish.
Also, my job and the information that dominates my day because of it, supports my notion to not eat meat.
Bio-accumulation of toxic material (fat soluble, serum soluble) is higher in meat eaters, no matter how much meat you eat.
If eating meat leads to a more serene and peaceful notion in your mind, why should you change?
However, promoting eating any meat as a healthy alternative to not eating meat, physically speaking, is just incongruous with the data observed; especially in the context of bio-accumulation.
I'm not trying to be condescending in my remarks, or holier than thou, so I apologize in advance if I offend anyone with my remarks.
But, like I said before "If eating meat leads to a more serene and peaceful notion in your mind, why should you change?"
reason #1--bio-accumulation |
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| Cyndi - 2007-05-03 12:01 PM
First of all, my children are not allowed to be vegetarian. Yep, that's right. Been there and done that with complete failure. In fact, I tell my daughter she has to eat a certain amount. This BS of allowing children to make food decisions is crazy. Whoever wants to debate this issue with me, you'll loose and it's not worth the conversation. As my daughter gets older and practices more yoga with me, this rule will probably change, but for now, this is the way its going to be. Anyway, some of the very best yogi's I've ever met were from Tibet, where they ate meat. Some of the worst yogi's I've ever met were from India and are vegetarian. Ya'll have a great day,
Sounds like you are very close minded to the topic because you failed to eat a healthy diet as a vegetarian. I don't think one should force their child to be a certain way because of the failures of the parent. Despite it being your child, the child is not you and should be allowed to develop on their own without the fears of their parents. There is nothin wrong with guiding/parenting a child, but forcing is a different story.
That being said i do understand why you are the way you are because of your experience. but we need to reemember not to let fear rule us or those around us. There are many healthy vegetarians, myself included.
I'd like to leave everyone a link. This link deals with the karmic repercussion's of eating meat. http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/02/the-connection-between-psychic-abilities-and-being-vegan/. |
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| Thank you Spirittap. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Spirittap,
Why do you come onto this forum - without any introduction I may add.... and make a claim that I am closed minded??
You don't know me, my children, and most importantly...what their needs are! As I've stated here before, there is no way in hell that I am ever going to allow my children to make these kinds of decisions and much less let them fend for themselves. That would be totally irresponsible on my part. Ahh, but we sure do have alot of parents here in the West that do allow their children to make adult and life decisions that aren't sooo intelligent, don't we??? OTOH, my daughter is no where near the type of child who is on a spiritual mission to not eat meat due to spiritual reasons or vows and what not. I KNOW this because I KNOW my child. WE discuss this alot. She's now a teenager. As a Yogi Mom, we KNOW these things. We don't want our babies to be harmed over trendy ideas of vegetariansm...just because somebody says it's the thing to do.
So, the next time you decide to post something of this nature...please get your facts together. You don't know what you are talking about. As for fear issues??? We don't have issues around fear. This issue has nothing to do with fear. My daughter trusts me with her life...afterall I did give her life and I am totally responsible for hers. Yes, there are many healthy vegetarians, but the numbers of unhealthy ones are definitley more. As for myself...I wasn't an un-healthy vegetarian...I was starving nutritionally. I became a vegetarian during a time in my life when I needed to be a vegetarian. Then the time came when I needed to add meat back to my diet. There is nothing wrong with this. It's what MOST people do...even in the HINDU world. There are many like myself that have made this discovery by choosing a complete vegetarian diet, only later to add meat back into their diet for either health reasons or because we were finished and completed our vow and what we were trying to accomplish!! Vegetarianism is NOT for every BODY.
Ciao Ciao
P.S. Speaking of vegetarianism....tonight I'm making this wonderful 'vegetarian' classic Italian minestrone soup that my Nepali - now Italian SIL taught me how to make. It's totally delicious and soo simple. Just take some of your favorite veggies and cook the crap out of them for an hour or so. Mash them up, add some small cooked pasta (or cook it with the veggies, I do it separate) and garnish with fresh Parmegianno Reggiano...it's totally divine! Bon Appetito!
Edited by Cyndi 2008-02-06 7:47 PM
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| I expected that sort of response from you  . You already set yourself up to respond in a hostile way by saying "This BS of allowing children to make food decisions is crazy. Whoever wants to debate this issue with me, you'll loose and it's not worth the conversation."
For 1 i have introduced myself and I said it "Sounds like you are very close minded to the topic."
Key words are sounds like. When you say things like
Cyndi - 2007-05-03 12:01 PM
Yep, that's right. Been there and done that with complete failure. In fact, I tell my daughter she has to eat a certain amount. This BS of allowing children to make food decisions is crazy. Whoever wants to debate this issue with me, you'll loose and it's not worth the conversation.
it sure SOUNDS like you are close-minded to the topic. Read what you said, it sure sounds like you're closing the door on vegetarianism right now. You did say that one day this rule might change, but it obviously will because one day your daughter won't have to look for your permission when she makes choices.
I believe we either come from fear or love. I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like you are coming from love at all concerning this topic. It sounds fear motivated to me because you had a bad experience with vegetarianism, so you shut the door down on those around you (your daughter) making the change. Love opens doors and fear shuts them.
That's about all i'm going to say on the issue, anymore would be repeating myself. I already have an idea of what you'll say, but maybe you'll surprise me . Optimism.
Edited by Spirittap 2008-02-07 5:37 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Children should not have the choice/responsibility of making nutritional choices. I have one year olds who are making these choices for themselves because the parents are afraid to be parents and make the decisions for their children. One year olds! We have endless debates here about how to make these choices as adults - one year olds, five year olds, thirteen year olds, are NOT educated or mature enough to make well informed choices that may affect their health for life. I am not arguing pro or con vegetarianism here - simply pointing out that kids aren't ready to choose for themselves yet.
As for Cyndi, if her DD was to become interested in going veg, I am sure there would be some discussion and a reasonable, educated and informed conclusion reached between them. While she is still officially a "child" she is growing up and is ready to have some input in this area, though the amount of input and the ultimate decision are still up to her mother, who knows a lot about this stuff. |
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| when i talk to teens about going veg, i recommend to them that the do a lot of research and write up a simple presentation with information about the common nutrients that people are concerned about and how to do a well-planned vegetarian diet. i tell them to look at information from non-vegetarian sources that support vegetarianism, in order to tell their parents.
i do this not because i expect the parents to comply automatically, but to teach these teens how to take responsibility and act "grown up" rather than whine and fuss and fume to try to get their position going.
i recommend that these kids suggest that they cook their own meals, or that they cook for the whole family once a week, or --if they have allowance or are old enough to work--that they provide some of their own specialty items like soy milk or veggie burgers.
again, t his is to demonstrate their maturity and taking responsibility in this decision, not just to show their parents that it's some knee-jerk reaction to some over-blown peta video.
i feel that it's prefectly appropriate for a parent to say "no" and for even a teen to have to comply.
i wanted to go veg many times as a teen, but never did this research, and my parents said no and it was fine. my parents said they thought it was unhealthy, i believed them because they're good parents, and i didn't become veg until college.
it all worked out. |
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| Two thirds of adult Americans are over weight. Key word is adult. I find it interesting how some can say children aren't able to make a proper nutritional decision when two thirds of American adults don't.
A teenage child can comprehend what he or she needs, parents aiding their children would help. When i first tried to go veggie i didn't know what i was doing, but that experience helped me to make a more proper nutritional decision the second time i tried to go veggie. There's nothin wrong with experiencing failure. Who suceeds the first time they try something? Experience is something that should be valued.
sark, are these 1 and 5 year olds fussing over an ominvore diet, are their arguements based on wanting more sweets or what they prefer to eat? There's a big difference between that and going vegetarian. Becoming vegetarian is not just a health issue.
Our children are not clueless. They are not just 12 year olds running around the park while having fun with their friends, they're powerful Spiritual beings with life times of experience. Try not to underrate them, instead help awaken and explore their abilities while treating them with a little more respect.
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| i do not underestimate them, nor do i assume that any adult necessarily makes healthy choices for themselves or others.
but, it is also important for children to have guidance and limits as well as be able to demonstrate their own ability.
i would be more apt to help a child with good reason to do what s/he wished--if i felt/believed it was healthy and appropriate--than to help one who tries to tantrum their way into being.
having met people of all ages who behave in this way (tantruming), i'm not inclined to give in to them, spiritual beings, spiritual development or not. |
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| (((zoe))), my post wasn't directed to you.
For the most part i agree with what you have said, but limits is another issue. We can only limit/control someone if they allow us to. Don't do this, don't do that. This is a very negative approach. Guidance on the other hand is good approach to teach out of love. Sometimes no matter how good the advice is, we all need to learn first hand. It's one thing to be told about something, but another to actually experience it.
Edited by Spirittap 2008-02-07 1:04 PM
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Eating meat
