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Eating meat
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   Wellness -> Diet and NutritionMessage format
 
sark
Posted 2007-05-01 3:32 PM (#84787)
Subject: Eating meat


I have tried to cut meat out of my diet but it has been very difficult. I feel very uptight and out of sorts it I go without it for a couple days. Right now I am resigned to portion control. Is there a better type of meat to eat? What about meat from hunting, at least the animal was free ranging and not subject to growth hormones. My inlaws hunt quite a bit and are always offering us venison.
Should I keep trying to cut out meat regardless of how it makes me feel? Does it get better over time? Thanks for any input.
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OptiMystic
Posted 2007-05-01 3:57 PM (#84793 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


I have gone without meat for stretches of time and like you, I had a really hard time with it. You just get so conditioned to the foods you were brought up with. I did use a few Morningstar Farms products and some are not so bad. Being brought up in the Christian faith, it is hard for me to consider eating fish as bad. Pure vegans make the distinction between carbon based life forms that can move and those that can't; even scientists have a tough time determining what is a plant or animal at times though. I worry more about caring and compassion in general. I understand the argument for applying that to not eating meat and I won't beat it to death.
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tourist
Posted 2007-05-01 7:49 PM (#84809 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Why are you trying to cut out meat? If you are doing it just because you "should" for some reason, you really need to know if that is a "should" you need to pay attention to. If I were regularly offered wild venison, I would accept it with great and undying gratitude. I was brought up on venison and moose, and have a life long affection for it Personally, I eat almost no meat now, but that is because I can't digest it more than any other reason.
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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-02 12:52 AM (#84828 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Hi Sark,

It really depends on your reasons for stopping eating meat.

If (like me) you believe that all animals are sentient beings, then no meat would really be appropriate in your diet.

You mention the issue of growth hormones and free range. If health is your motivation then obviously freshly hunted meat would be better....

Why not practise being a Tuesday vegetarian. Eat meat all week and on Tuesdays (or any other day you prefer) only eat vegetable products. After a while, you may choose to increase the days you practise this or dismiss the idea all together.

Jonathon
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-05-02 9:19 AM (#84879 - in reply to #84809)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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tourist - 2007-05-01 7:49 PM If I were regularly offered wild venison, I would accept it with great and undying gratitude.

Hey Glenda,

Guess what??? This past weekend we had guests that came to visit us from Trinidad.  They cooked Venison like you wouldn't believe!!  It was so moist, tender and very easy to digest.  I got the recipe, the taste was absolutely DIVINE 



Edited by Cyndi 2007-05-02 9:20 AM
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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-02 9:24 AM (#84882 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


I can't believe it! Haven't you all seen Bambi?
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tourist
Posted 2007-05-02 10:45 AM (#84908 - in reply to #84882)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Hey - I live in the wild, wild west and Cyndi is from redneck country! Be happy we aren't raiding the neighbour's rabbit hutches for a little snack
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OptiMystic
Posted 2007-05-02 11:17 AM (#84917 - in reply to #84882)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


jonnie - 2007-05-02 9:24 AM

I can't believe it! Haven't you all seen Bambi?


Mmmm - Bambi - that's one tasty looking deer. (kidding!!!)

Actually, I wanted to ask you about your previous statement about all animals being sentient. The really gray area is the filter feeders on the ocean floor that scientists can't agree on (plants or animals?). Is there a defining characteristic for you? A heart? A central nervous system? I am not trying to give you a hard time; I truly am curious. Animals that frolic when young and/or grieve for lost companions (pretty much all mammals and a lot of birds) make a pretty good case for sentience. At some point I think it becomes instinct and survival. Fish swim away from predators just like a plant grows toward the sun if shaded - it's a matter of survival.

Edited by OptiMystic 2007-05-02 11:17 AM
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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-02 11:17 AM (#84918 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


I bet you both feel guilty now





(images.jpg)



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sark
Posted 2007-05-02 12:37 PM (#84931 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Doing it mostly for health reasons. I do not have any health issues, just trying to be pro-active. I think my best bet is portion control and meat free days and when I do have it venison would be the best bet. Venison is way better than beef anyway.
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-05-02 12:48 PM (#84935 - in reply to #84918)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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jonnie - 2007-05-02 11:17 AM I bet you both feel guilty now

Not really.

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Cyndi
Posted 2007-05-02 12:58 PM (#84937 - in reply to #84931)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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sark - 2007-05-02 12:37 PM Doing it mostly for health reasons. I do not have any health issues, just trying to be pro-active. I think my best bet is portion control and meat free days and when I do have it venison would be the best bet. Venison is way better than beef anyway.

Yes, Venison is much better than beef.  Beef is fed growth hormones and chemicals.  If you lived in my area, you would cry over what they do to cows...NOT what they do to deers.  At least the deers are free to roam the forest and eat natural food, whereas cows are put in conditions that make your skin crawl and will break your heart.  I do not eat Beef - period.  I only eat organically grown chicken and pork, and wild-caught fish from southern waters and the local trout streams here in the mountains where I KNOW the water is pure.

I posted part of an article that Yoga Journal did with Beryl Bender Birch regarding eating meat and such.  It was the best article ever.  She talked about 'mindful' eating and preparation of our food...regardless of whether it was meat or not.  Instead of freaking out over the meat issue, you really should focus on what your body needs and being mindful about how it is prepared and consumed.  That is more important than being a vegetarian. 

For what it's worth...I was at my most UN-healthiest when I became a vegetarian.  It was horrible and screwed up my body's internal organs.  It took me a long time to re-gain my balance. 

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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-02 1:33 PM (#84946 - in reply to #84917)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


When I was a teenager, my rule was to not eat anything that had a face. About ten years later, somehow fish made it back into my diet (though not shellfish, due to other dietary rules that I follow). Still not sure about my rationale regarding fish, but I've been consistent with all these views for close to thirty years now, and still going strong.

The turning point to vegetarianism for me was when I was younger, and about to take a bite of a chicken drumstick. I looked at it a bit, and realized it looked too much like my own leg. It pretty much ended for me right then and there.

When I first saw the post about venison, right away my mind went to the image of Bambi as well. But I held off responding because I know that what (and who) you choose to eat is a totally personal choice. You can't forcibly impose your morals on someone else. My husband and children are carnivores, and yes I do prepare their food for them (on the rare occasions that I do actually cook, but that's a whole 'nother issue!). Am I a hypocrite for choosing not to eat as they do but still handle and prepare their chicken and beef? I think it would be extremely foolish of me to choose the chickens and cows over my family. So I choose to educate them with being consistent in my example and my own practice of not eating meat.

My 12-year-old daughter has now expressed interest in becoming a vegetarian because "it's not fair to the animals". I've NEVER said anything like that to her nor around her; that's just not how I speak. Yet she's learning the proper way of thinking and being just by my example. So I totally feel I've done my part.

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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-02 1:46 PM (#84948 - in reply to #84946)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


OrangeMat - 2007-05-03 9:33 PM

When I was a teenager, my rule was to not eat anything that had a face. About ten years later, somehow fish made it back into my diet



Poor Nemo



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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-02 1:56 PM (#84953 - in reply to #84948)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


jonnie - 2007-05-02 1:46 PM
OrangeMat - 2007-05-03 9:33 PM

When I was a teenager, my rule was to not eat anything that had a face. About ten years later, somehow fish made it back into my diet

Poor Nemo

And he's orange, too! YIKES!

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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-02 1:59 PM (#84954 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


It's a sign....
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-05-02 4:08 PM (#84965 - in reply to #84954)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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You have to be real careful about that 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to vegetarianism.  The mind can really drive you nuts about eating flesh if you let.  Been there and done that already. 

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Posted 2007-05-02 5:10 PM (#84969 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


During military survival school, the instructors delighted in picking out the niest, smallest person in the crew and making them the designated bunny owner. That person got the honor of killing cooking, and cleaning the wabbit after it had endeared itself to the group over a period of two weeks. The point being of course, you can have no food aversions when you're in a survival mode. I actually didn't eat any of the rabbit, I found fine ants to feast upon.
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-05-02 9:48 PM (#85000 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


one reason I stopped eating meat over the course of about 5 years is,

Meat stopped serving me

I didn't feel too healthy after eating it, and it took a long time to realize it, because I'd been so conditioned to believe that eating meat is success and health and MEN eat MEAT, and I'd subsisted on the food of the Bay during the summers growing up, but now, I just don't wanna eat meat of any kind.

It makes my joints sort of ache and my body feel kind of bloated.

Now, if meat doesn't do this to you, and you enjoy it, then fine.

I also could not continue to ignore what I'd learned from my teachers. I'm not much of an animal lover. I don't have pets, I have children. All the same, I don't really want to eat something that has a heart and mind like I have.

We can split hairs all day long and say that a fish doesn't feel and think like humans do, go ahead, I don't care, I don't wanna eat fish anyway, even if there was a way to prove that they are more vegetable than a bean. I don't want to eat anything that swims in the effluent of the earth.

I used to eat a lot of meat, and I liked sausage.

It just doesn't serve me anymore to eat it, and I just don't enjoy it like I used to believe I was enjoying it.
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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-02 11:42 PM (#85004 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Steve,

Interesting points. The subject of vegetarianism is usually discussed in the context of health, though there are far wider karmic implications...

Bruce,

Man, that takes me back.

When I left school I spent four years in the British Infantry. Our survival training consisted of living off roots, berries, worms, spiders and any other bugs we could find and boiling them into a horrible stew .

On our first day, the instructor taught us how to build snares to catch rabbits etc. 12 hours later and between 30 of us, we had caught one squirrel (which didn't go round too far). The instructor drove off the next day and came back with a number of white rabbits, one with a pretty pink ribbon round it's neck. That was lunch
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tourist
Posted 2007-05-03 12:41 AM (#85007 - in reply to #85000)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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SCT - good reasons. I had a coworker who said the whole idea of eating meat made her queasy. Another good reason. The key to me is the individual knows their reasons and are clear about it. The rest, as you say, is hair splitting.
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-05-03 8:58 AM (#85030 - in reply to #84787)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


it certainly is a personal choice

I don't want to choose for anyone else but myself

I'd like to think that everyone is satisfied with their own decisions and commitments, but obviously, this is something that people don't always think about, they just do it like they were raised to do it, and that's that.

Through practicing Yoga, a lot of times, people are opened up to a whole new frontier where they see that they are not shackled by the slavery of cultural norms, or tradition and have the ability to choose and develop a value system based on their own thoughts and their own truth.

What you choose to put in your body is a part of your own commitment to your own brand of virtue.

There are rational arguments on both sides of this issue, so for me, that means that it is a personal choice in the end.
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shalamOM
Posted 2007-05-03 11:28 AM (#85063 - in reply to #85030)
Subject: RE: Eating meat




Through practicing Yoga, a lot of times, people are opened up to a whole new frontier where they see that they are not shackled by the slavery of cultural norms, or tradition and have the ability to choose and develop a value system based on their own thoughts and their own truth.



I agree with this, but one has to make sure that they don't just become 'shackled' by yoga cultural norms.
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shalamOM
Posted 2007-05-03 11:36 AM (#85065 - in reply to #84965)
Subject: RE: Eating meat


Cyndi - 2007-05-02 4:08 PM

You have to be real careful about that 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to vegetarianism. The mind can really drive you nuts about eating flesh if you let. Been there and done that already.




Yes, I've seen that attitude and it is very un yogic. I believe those who are disgusted with those who don't follow their yoga diet (usually vegan/veg/raw food) are really just disgusted with themselves. It's just a form of projection...really dysfunctional.

I would never have disgust with people, but I once experienced a feeling of irritation on a family get together with regards to unhealthy eating habits. The relatives I visited complain incessantly about all their health issues and play the victim. Because I am relatively healthy I am supposed to offer non-stop empathy towards them because they are just 'sick' and 'unlucky'. They take medication upon medication and continue to complain about their bad genes. But when you look in their fridge there is so much junky food and it's not as if they don't know how to eat healthy. They just don't make an effort because they like their junky food and they really believe that all their problems are just from bad luck. I empathize with their problems, but I've had my health problems too. I guess I'm tired of people playing the role of victim and not making an effort to do much about their problems.




Edited by shalamOM 2007-05-03 11:37 AM
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-05-03 12:01 PM (#85068 - in reply to #85065)
Subject: RE: Eating meat



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Hey Shalom,

I can assure you that those un-healthy family members are more un-healthy due to all those medications they take, rather than not being a vegetarian.  In second place, I vote that junk food is laced with all sorts of chemicals and MSG!!!! 

You guys would really freak out if you were at my house.  First of all, my children are not allowed to be vegetarian.  Yep, that's right.  Been there and done that with complete failure.  In fact, I tell my daughter she has to eat a certain amount.  This BS of allowing children to make food decisions is crazy.  Whoever wants to debate this issue with me, you'll loose and it's not worth the conversation.  As my daughter gets older and practices more yoga with me, this rule will probably change, but for now, this is the way its going to be. 

Anyway, some of the very best yogi's I've ever met were from Tibet, where they ate meat.  Some of the worst yogi's I've ever met were from India and are vegetarian.  Ya'll have a great day,

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