YogiSource.com my account | view cart | customer service
 Search:    
Welcome to the new Yoga.com Forums home!
For future visits, link to "http://www.YogiSource.com/forums".
Make a new bookmark.
Tell your friends so they can find us and you!

Coming soon ... exciting new changes for our website, now at YogiSource.com.

Search | Statistics | User Listing View All Forums
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )



Fear
Moderators: Moderators

Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Yoga -> Philosophy and ReligionMessage format
 
strazin
Posted 2007-04-29 6:22 AM (#84530)
Subject: Fear


Why do people insist on having negative fear-based thoughts instead of positive confident thoughts? I have been trying to undertsand the nature of fear, why fear is so prevalent in the human mindset, and I have a theory. (I am not sure if this topic is relavent to this forum -- if not, please let me know.)

Perhaps the imbalance in our minds of fear vs. confidence corresponds to an imbalance of physical experiences in the real world, specifically an imbalance of pain vs. pleasure. My original intuition was that there must exist a balance between pain and pleasure. That is, every experience of pain is perfectly matched by an opposite experience of pleasure. However, my observations suggest otherwise.

It seems like there is simply a lot more pain in the world than pleasure. For example, consider torture -- extreme pain and agony. Is there a "pleasure" equivalent to torture? There is sex, but is the orgasm really as pleasurable as torture is painful. I doubt it.

So in a way, it makes perfect sense that people tend to be overcautious and fearful. In practice, when faced with situations of uncertainty, the extreme risk of pain generally outweighs the not-so-extreme reward of pleasure. And if there is such a high risk - low reward pattern, then the most logical bet for people is in fact to always be fearful instead of confident. Of course, in certain situations the fear response is inappropriate and exaggerated (for example, with public speaking or socializing), but in general the excessive caution could be valid in the average case.

I am sure there is something wrong with my reasoning. My intuition still is that there ought to be a perfect balance between pleasure and pain -- but I'm not seeing it. I must be missing something. Perhaps someone could clear things up for me.

Also, could anyone reccomend how I should approach the subject of fear? Are there any good books? I am trying to understand fear, why it exists, and why it is such a dominant force.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-29 6:48 AM (#84531 - in reply to #84530)
Subject: RE: Fear


Fear is the demon of the 1st chakra (muladhara). According to the various theories of human development as put forth by various reknown psychologists (i.e. Freud, Reich/Lowen, Piaget, Erikson, Maslow, etc.) the development of the qualities of the root chakra occur during from the womb to 12 months. When things get damaged in this process (such as not being held enough as a baby or growing up in the environment of war), a sense of physically belonging to the world gets damaged. The root chakra deals with issues of survival and having the right to be here. A sense of being grounded in oneself stems from being grounded in one's physical body, so yes, fear is "taught" by the practice of over-valuing the mind over the body. Not physical appearance, mind you, but a sense of being comfortable in one's own skin as an important and basic necessity in life. That's just not stressed in modern society.

Read Anodea Judith's book Eastern Body, Western Mind. Every member of humanity should.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2007-04-29 10:45 AM (#84548 - in reply to #84530)
Subject: RE: Fear



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
strazin - I don't know why there would be a natural balance between pleasure and pain in the world. I suppose at a "caveman" level - going back to basics, as it were - pleasure would indeed be bodily basics such as not being hungry, being warm enough, sex, etc. Perhaps looking at that level there does exist a balance? But when we have our physical needs met, as they are for most of us now, pleasure takes on new meanings. As OrangeMat says, it helps to look at the hierarchy of human needs (Maslow's list is famous) to put these things in perspective. Humans do tend to be pleasure seekers though, so we constantly move toward that which makes us happy. Yoga practices help us see what happy is

Oh - and some people persist in moving toward pain and unhappiness because they have a ton of karma to overcome in this life.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kulkarnn
Posted 2007-04-29 11:30 AM (#84558 - in reply to #84530)
Subject: RE: Fear


strazin - 2007-04-29 6:22 AM

Why do people insist on having negative fear-based thoughts instead of positive confident thoughts? I have been trying to undertsand the nature of fear, why fear is so prevalent in the human mindset, and I have a theory. (I am not sure if this topic is relavent to this forum -- if not, please let me know.)


Also, could anyone reccomend how I should approach the subject of fear? Are there any good books? I am trying to understand fear, why it exists, and why it is such a dominant force.



Buddy Starzin: I am not putting you down. But, you are a college student, possibly supported by parents and you have your own studies to do. Also, lately you wrote about how to do Yoga Practice, etc. Why are wasting time in thinking of such subtle issues? That is distraction from your real practice and wasting energy for something to be done much later.

===> Which people are insisting on which negative thoughts.

===> Balance between pain and pleasure comes only by one means. That is to go beyond them. As long as you are within them, you never see balance, because, one likes the pleasure and one dislikes the pain.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
gogirl58
Posted 2007-04-29 6:51 PM (#84596 - in reply to #84558)
Subject: RE: Fear


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 338
10010010025

How would anyone know what his real practice should be.....just because he is a college student?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kulkarnn
Posted 2007-05-02 9:06 PM (#84997 - in reply to #84596)
Subject: RE: Fear


gogirl58 - 2007-04-29 6:51 PM


How would anyone know what his real practice should be.....just because he is a college student?


Because I know him.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
souljourney108
Posted 2007-05-03 3:55 AM (#85012 - in reply to #84558)
Subject: RE: Fear


kulkarnn - 2007-04-30 1:30 AM

===> Which people are insisting on which negative thoughts.


I agree with this message .You know a great yogi called Sivananda said to keep looking at ourselves at our minds and reactions. All we do sometimes in looking at others is avoid looking at ourselves. I find it best to keep looking at what I tend to attach to in the mind. All this speculation about fear and where and why... is simply mind activity, does it really serve towards liberation? I'd say recognize when fear arises in your mind...don't worry about others.
Wishing you peace, Soul
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SCThornley
Posted 2007-05-03 9:06 AM (#85032 - in reply to #84530)
Subject: RE: Fear


why ask why, drink bud dry

LOLZ

Fear, haha, live without it

the reason is TRADITION, cultural slavery, Authoritarian Incompetence that relies on force, and learning through experience

This is why people fear

Not until the ruts in your brain are cleared and the scars embedded in your consciousness are healed and have evaporated do you let go of fear and live

People are committed to death, it is inevitable, right?

But living, that's not for sure, you must choose to live, you must be strong enough to rise above the walking corpses to experience life, to risk, to try, to DO, to BE.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
dmbones
Posted 2007-05-03 9:58 AM (#85040 - in reply to #84530)
Subject: RE: Fear


Greetings Utsab,

The Dali Lama has written that the most pressing issue facing humanity today is the taming of the mind.

Archeological evidence of humanity on earth goes back about 4.5 million years. Evidence of humans settling down, starting agricultural practice and moving in from out doors, is found about ten thousand years ago. If we consider 10K as part of 4.5 million years as a 'human earth day,' then we have only been non-nomadic for three minutes of the 24 hour day. Our nervous systems are hardwired to see danger in everything. At the slightest apprehension, the breath gets ragged and the body starts to prepare to either run or fight. The circulation that was beforehand repairing internal organs shifts to our legs and butts, shoulders and back in order to prepare us for fighting or fleeing. At the first thought of danger, the blood pressure starts building anticipating exertion. Each moment we are either repairing ourselves in the parasympathetic part of our nervous systems, or responding to perceived danger about us and getting ready to fight in our sympathetic part of the nervous system.

As we practice the minor stressfulness of the asanas, we may practice keeping an even and comfortable breath, informing the body that it is time for repair, and not for fighting. We each get to choose; and hopefully help make this a less freightening place to live. Good luck.

Michael
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2007-05-03 10:14 AM (#85044 - in reply to #85040)
Subject: RE: Fear



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
Well said, dmbones. SCT - you are a poet

I also think that our western emphasis on the individual has been a contributer to some of the mental ills of today. Yes, the work of yoga has to do with personal, individual liberation and much introspection and self-study must be done. In a culture where the individual is supported through a strong social network and a deep commitment to family, perhaps this works better. In the west we stress being self-sufficient to such an extent that children are nudged out of the nest asap and even people with mental problems are pushed to live "independently" which leaves them vulnerable to their own fear at a very delicate time.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dmbones
Posted 2007-05-03 12:31 PM (#85070 - in reply to #85044)
Subject: RE: Fear


Hi Glenda,

I saw a good bumber sticker yesterday: "Don't be afraid!"

Michael
Top of the page Bottom of the page
strazin
Posted 2007-05-03 6:23 PM (#85106 - in reply to #85070)
Subject: RE: Fear


Thanks for all the feedback. It sounds like most of you are telling me to not worry too much about it -- too much thought not enough action. And I agree.

In one of the meditation books I have been reading, the author reccomended to study fear and learn as much as I can about it. I suppose I misinterpretted his message.

Looking back on it, I regret making the original post. My "theory" is just so convoluted and abstract. There is no useful or practical relevance. It doesn't even make sense to me anymore. In the future, I will try to keep my random theories to myself.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2007-05-03 6:40 PM (#85111 - in reply to #85106)
Subject: RE: Fear



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
strazin - random theories make some of the best conversation here, so post away! Half-baked, half-a$$ed, whatever. Some of us have addressed these issues in ourselves and can be helpful in restating or improving the theory, and some of us have maybe not gone in that direction at all, so we get a chance to think about it. As the kids used to say (do they still say this?) It's all good
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dattaswami
Posted 2007-05-13 1:20 AM (#86119 - in reply to #84530)
Subject: RE: Fear


strazin - 2007-04-29 6:22 AM

Why do people insist on having negative fea..........proach the subject of fear? Are there any good books? I am trying to understand fear, why it exists, and why it is such a dominant force.



Cause of fear

Swami told that the cause of fear is only the ignorance about God. The complete knowledge about God removes the fear completely. You can neither protect your self nor others. Any item of the creation cannot protect any other item of the creation. The reason is every item has production and destruction. Even the Lord in the human form has birth and death but has no fear. Jesus knows about His future crucification. He never feared about it before or during the crucification. He never feared for the soldiers who came to arrest Him. He never argued about His case in the court, because He knows that the crucification has to take place by the will of God. Therefore when you have the knowledge of God and the knowledge of His will, you will not fear even about the death.

The death proves that everything and everybody other than God gets destroyed. There fore Jesus asked the people to fear about themselves and about their children and not about His death. Lord Rama jumped into the river with smiling face, Lord Krishna was smiling while leaving His body. Sri Padavallabha and Sri Narasimha Saraswati merged in the Krishna river with smiles. Therefore one will not fear even for death if the divine knowledge is attained. Gita says that death is only changing the old shirt. Where the divine knowledge exists like sunlight, the fear vanishes like darkness. Even in the last statement of Jesus no trace of fear appears as He said that He is surrendering His soul to the hands of God. Veda says that the limited knowledge is cause of the fear (Atha Tasya Bhayam….).
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread


(Delete all cookies set by this site)