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What is the goal of meditation
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strazin
Posted 2007-04-21 9:35 AM (#83892)
Subject: What is the goal of meditation


There is one other big issue which has been pressing my mind recently. In all the meditation techniques and theories I've read about, the emphasis seems to be on focusing your awareness on the present moment (focusing on your breath, heartbeat, etc.), while keeping your "distracting" thought flows quiet. But here is what confuses me: Aren't your random thought flows just as real and present as anything else? Your thoughts do exist, and they do occur in the present. So what's the problem if you are always drifting off into thoughts?

In terms of awareness of the present moment, it seems like no matter what you are focusing on, it all amounts to the same thing. That is, your awareness is invariably anchored somewhere in the present moment. Your random thoughts are just as much a part of the universe as your breath and heartbeat are. Or is the point that the awareness of the breath is somehow more 'valuable' than the awareness of the subject of some random memory or day dream?
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-21 10:55 AM (#83893 - in reply to #83892)
Subject: RE: What is the goal of meditation


Here's the quick and clean answer to your question, though one that will probably leave you rather unsatisfied if you're unfamiliar with yogic philosophy: meditation (dhyana) is the seventh of the eight limbs of yoga (ashtanga here meaning "eight limbs", not to be confused with the active style of yoga of Sri Pattabhi Jois, sometimes spelled "astanga"). The ultimate goal of Yoga (notice the capitalization) is samadhi, or enlightenment, which is the eighth limb. All the limbs (yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi) all lead from one to the next in succession to that ultimate goal. These are techniques for proper living ethics between yourself and others, yourself with regard to yourself, practices involving the physical body, breath control, sense control, concentration, meditation and then ultimately, bliss. So that's the big picture answer to where meditation lies with respect to the complete practice of Yoga.

A more subtle answer to why we should want to steer away from reacting to the wavering thoughts of the mind is that that is exactly the technique employed while in concentration, which leads to meditation (6th and 7th limbs, respectively). "We are not the body, we are not the mind." We are the capital "S" Self that is beyond the scope of the senses and the thinking mind. Being in the present moment, which is the technique you mentioned to achieve concentration, is exactly just that: a technique. It's very difficult to keep this big picture viewpoint in mind while focusing on each individual goal and technique employed in the practice, which is why emphasis is usually given to each technique itself as a goal unto itself. Work on the techniques with the proper attitude and the goals should follow of their own accord is the thought process behind the teachings.

Did I confuse you more? Don't say I didn't warn you!

Great question, btw.



Edited by OrangeMat 2007-04-21 11:00 AM
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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-04-21 11:56 AM (#83897 - in reply to #83892)
Subject: RE: What is the goal of meditation


strazin - 2007-04-21 9:35 AM

There is one other big issue which has been pressing my mind recently. In all the meditation techniques and theories I've read about, the emphasis seems to be on focusing your awareness on the present moment (focusing on your breath, heartbeat, etc.), while keeping your "distracting" thought flows quiet. But here is what confuses me: Aren't your random thought flows just as real and present as anything else? Your thoughts do exist, and they do occur in the present. So what's the problem if you are always drifting off into thoughts?

In terms of awareness of the present moment, it seems like no matter what you are focusing on, it all amounts to the same thing. That is, your awareness is invariably anchored somewhere in the present moment. Your random thoughts are just as much a part of the universe as your breath and heartbeat are. Or is the point that the awareness of the breath is somehow more 'valuable' than the awareness of the subject of some random memory or day dream?


Fantastic Question!!!!


Answer: This is because in Yoga you want to get a voluntary control of your mind as against an involuntary flow of thoughts. Obviously that is NOT a joke, but that is the goal.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-21 12:08 PM (#83899 - in reply to #83897)
Subject: RE: What is the goal of meditation


Neel -- and I thought my answer was going to be short!  Thank you for reminding me yet again how I'm still so much a student, and not yet a teacher.
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dmbones
Posted 2007-04-21 2:06 PM (#83903 - in reply to #83892)
Subject: RE: What is the goal of meditation


Welcome Utsab,

Thank you for a thoughtful opening to the forum. Exploring your own mind is the essence of yoga, IMO.

It's easy to reach samadhi, or integration, with yourself. When you think about your breath, you are one with your body and mind. The work arises as you observe your mind in relationship to the rest of reality.

Michael
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-04-23 2:24 PM (#83997 - in reply to #83892)
Subject: RE: What is the goal of medita


Neel said a lot in a very succinct fashion.

I like the analogy of your mind/conciousness/whatever you wanna say being like a lake.

to see through to the bottom you need still water, thoughts that come and go are like throwing pebbles in the water, and when they hit the bottom they stir things up

beyond the thoughts that come and go, or behind or something like that, there is more to see, just like there is more to see below the surface of the lake

so, see for yourself
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