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Yoga and Christianity
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Posted 2008-06-25 6:26 PM (#108687 - in reply to #108683)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Yoga and Christianity are totally compatible and Yoga and Christianity are totally incompatible! It all depends on your Yoga and on your Christianity. It depends on your level of dogmatic thinking as opposed your ability to see the bigger picture in both, seeing the substance as opposed to seeing the form. Finding the meaning as opposed to slavishly following the words.




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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-06-25 6:38 PM (#108688 - in reply to #83215)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Due to re-opening of this thread again. I wish to add one more thing to my previous posting on it. And, extend the same.

I am reposting the whole again.

--------------------------------------------

Today, I shall tell you one funny and true thing.

When the great Jesus Christ lived, around 2006 years ago, Yoga was already few thousand years old.

I am sure that either a) Jesus did know Yoga as he was All knowing. OR b) He did not know Yoga and he was NOT all knowing.

I want to assume the first as true. As the second assumption defies this thread.

Assuming the first one: Jesus never said anything Against Yoga

(Addition) Therefore, you need to find

a) who is that telling you about Yoga and Christianity.

b) And, also, you need know whether Yoga is Anti Christianity or Christianity is AntiYoga.

c) And, you shall definitely find, the former is IMPOSSIBLE. Whereas the second is possible only when other persons than Jesus talk about Yoga.
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Posted 2008-06-25 7:31 PM (#108690 - in reply to #108688)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Jesus did not write the New Testament and a lot of it was written by people who did not even know Jesus (i.e. Paul). Those who did know Jesus wrote many years after his death. It is improbable that all of them could read or write, so someone else wrote it for them. All that being true, and adding to that the fact that translations are also interpretations, and the early Church edited out a lot and changed other things to fit their vision, any word exact reading of the New Testament is not going to be the literal "word of Jesus." I have read bible passages in English and German translations and they do not have the same meaning. I am fluent in two closely related languages and therefore know that translating exact meaning is impossible. How difficult must it be to translate un-related languages, centuries apart and keep the content the same as well as understandable!

We do not have transcripts of everything that Jesus said, so it is possible that Jesus did know about and mention Yoga. I don't think that it really matters. If Yoga is working for you, continue to do it! If Christianity (or Hinduism, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Islam, or Agnosticism, or Atheism) is working for you, continue to do it also!





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SCThornley
Posted 2008-06-25 8:43 PM (#108691 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


zeitgeist

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

let's all get real

we don't know anything about any Religious figure, we believe, we don't know
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tweeva
Posted 2008-06-26 4:09 AM (#108696 - in reply to #108691)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Veteran

Posts: 101
100
Right on, Steve

Tw
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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-06-26 8:54 AM (#108703 - in reply to #108691)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Some of the things were astonishing to me. I wondered whether an average American has intelligence to be a Democrat.

SCThornley - 2008-06-25 8:43 PM

zeitgeist

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

let's all get real

we don't know anything about any Religious figure, we believe, we don't know
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SCThornley
Posted 2008-06-26 9:20 AM (#108705 - in reply to #108703)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


kulkarnn - 2008-06-26 8:54 AM

Some of the things were astonishing to me. I wondered whether an average American has intelligence to be a Democrat.

SCThornley - 2008-06-25 8:43 PM

zeitgeist

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

let's all get real

we don't know anything about any Religious figure, we believe, we don't know


It doesn't matter, the democrats were going to end the war before they swept into congress (house and senate) and now it's business as usual

power corrupts
absolute power corrupts absolutely

the only thing we can do as individuals is stop believing the dogma and think for ourselves and judge for ourselves and KNOW and no longer believe

No one is above the most lowly among us nor are either exempt from judgment, HERE, NOW, among us.

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SCThornley
Posted 2008-06-26 9:22 AM (#108706 - in reply to #108696)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


tweeva - 2008-06-26 4:09 AM

Right on, Steve

Tw


gee whiz, thanks
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Phil
Posted 2008-06-26 10:37 AM (#108709 - in reply to #108690)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Hey Jim,
If you want a Testament written by someone who Knew Christ personally and was around at the time and understood an esoteric interpretation of his saying? Try getting hold of a copy of:
The Gospel of Saint Thomas.

I'm not expecting any belief in any testament. Just seeing if there's anything relevant to the human condition.

jimg - 2008-06-26 12:31 AM

Jesus did not write the New Testament and a lot of it was written by people who did not even know Jesus (i.e. Paul). Those who did know Jesus wrote many years after his death. It is improbable that all of them could read or write, so someone else wrote it for them. All that being true, and adding to that the fact that translations are also interpretations, and the early Church edited out a lot and changed other things to fit their vision, any word exact reading of the New Testament is not going to be the literal "word of Jesus." I have read bible passages in English and German translations and they do not have the same meaning. I am fluent in two closely related languages and therefore know that translating exact meaning is impossible. How difficult must it be to translate un-related languages, centuries apart and keep the content the same as well as understandable!

We do not have transcripts of everything that Jesus said, so it is possible that Jesus did know about and mention Yoga. I don't think that it really matters. If Yoga is working for you, continue to do it! If Christianity (or Hinduism, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Islam, or Agnosticism, or Atheism) is working for you, continue to do it also!







Edited by Phil 2008-06-26 10:42 AM
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Bay Guy
Posted 2008-09-05 11:34 PM (#110555 - in reply to #108696)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State

Yoga and Christianity.... reminds me of the comment about a Fish without a Bicycle.

But have you been following the parade of silver car stick-on fish thingies: first we had the fish with little feet...and now the one that has letters inside saying "N Chips".



... bg
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drjay1966
Posted 2008-09-13 2:28 PM (#110781 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


I personally know yoga teachers who use teach in Quaker meetings and Unitarian and Presbyterian churches. At the same time, people like Pat Robertson say that yoga's evil. So, ultimately, it depends on what kind of devout Christian you are.

For a fundamentalist who believes that anything "spiritual" that doesn't point directly to Jesus and only to Jesus is Satanic...well, yoga's probably not for you.

On the other hand, one whose version of Christianity is a bit more open and/or ecumenical, can be one of the millions of Christians doing yoga.

For those somewhere in between, I've seen links to "Christian yoga" websites, which apparently mix asanas with Christian theology.

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Bay Guy
Posted 2008-09-15 9:56 PM (#110831 - in reply to #110781)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State
Well, ok. But I always come back to wondering whether literatist christianity can accept anything with elements of another belief system. What would Jesus do... in a yoga class?

... bg
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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-09-16 6:30 AM (#110839 - in reply to #110781)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Dear Dr. Ajay: I bow down to you. Your statement below is well stated that I can only comment in praise. Thanks very much. The problem with those who call Yoga evil with their Christ association is that they think: Christ is a human body form, which of course it was, but it is NOT anything beyond. That is why any other body form can not be Jesus. I mean they think that there was only one body in which Son of God came, and that was Jesus Christ Body. So, if anyone else believes in any other Body or anybody else, then they are evil. The fact is that a) No body is evil whether they believe in any body or anybody or nobody, until they do harm to others. As a matter of fact, many times those who believe in one body only harm others, as you can see from the history, making them evil. b) Everybody is Jesus if they can understand that they are NOT only body, but they have mind and spirit, and when they clean their mind, which is real Yoga, they know spirit, which is the real Jesus.

Namaste.

drjay1966 - 2008-09-13 2:28 PM

I personally know yoga teachers who use teach in Quaker meetings and Unitarian and Presbyterian churches. At the same time, people like Pat Robertson say that yoga's evil. So, ultimately, it depends on what kind of devout Christian you are.

For a fundamentalist who believes that anything "spiritual" that doesn't point directly to Jesus and only to Jesus is Satanic...well, yoga's probably not for you.

On the other hand, one whose version of Christianity is a bit more open and/or ecumenical, can be one of the millions of Christians doing yoga.

For those somewhere in between, I've seen links to "Christian yoga" websites, which apparently mix asanas with Christian theology.

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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-09-16 6:31 AM (#110840 - in reply to #110781)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Dear Dr. Ajay: I bow down to you. Your statement below is well stated that I can only comment in praise. Thanks very much. The problem with those who call Yoga evil with their Christ association is that they think: Christ is a human body form, which of course it was, but it is NOT anything beyond. That is why any other body form can not be Jesus. I mean they think that there was only one body in which Son of God came, and that was Jesus Christ Body. So, if anyone else believes in any other Body or anybody else, then they are evil. The fact is that a) No body is evil whether they believe in any body or anybody or nobody, until they do harm to others. As a matter of fact, many times those who believe in one body only harm others, as you can see from the history, making them evil. b) Everybody is Jesus if they can understand that they are NOT only body, but they have mind and spirit, and when they clean their mind, which is real Yoga, they know spirit, which is the real Jesus.

Namaste.

drjay1966 - 2008-09-13 2:28 PM

I personally know yoga teachers who use teach in Quaker meetings and Unitarian and Presbyterian churches. At the same time, people like Pat Robertson say that yoga's evil. So, ultimately, it depends on what kind of devout Christian you are.

For a fundamentalist who believes that anything "spiritual" that doesn't point directly to Jesus and only to Jesus is Satanic...well, yoga's probably not for you.

On the other hand, one whose version of Christianity is a bit more open and/or ecumenical, can be one of the millions of Christians doing yoga.

For those somewhere in between, I've seen links to "Christian yoga" websites, which apparently mix asanas with Christian theology.

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Posted 2008-09-16 1:55 PM (#110846 - in reply to #110840)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Neel,
While what you are saying is great and I totally agree, the problem is that the Christian, Muslim and Jewish religions do NOT allow for any deviation of belief. You MUST believe that Christ (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) is the one and only god and that the entire "truth" is in the Bible or you are not a Christian. You MUST believe that Jehovah (the God of the Old Testament) is the one and only god and the entire "truth" is in the Old Testament or you are not a Jew (religion, not race). You MUST believe that Allah is the one and only god, Mohammad is his prophet and the entire "truth" is in the Koran to be a Muslim. These are all exclusive religions/beliefs and they all preach that eternal damnation is what you get if you believe or practice anything else. This makes it very difficult for the more fundamentalist or dogmatic types from each of these religions to embrace something like yoga which is outside their belief structure and therefore subject to eternal damnation. You say that a person is good or evil by their actions (and I agree), but the Bible/Western tradition says that you are good or evil based on your beliefs first. Pat Robertson and many other American Christian preachers preach on a regular basis that yoga is a false religion and is evil.

You are coming at this from a Hindu/Eastern perspective where there are many paths. The basic Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Western perspective (although there have always been more open minds) is that there is only one correct belief and only one path. You say that "everybody is Jesus". This is a Buddhist type concept like everybody is a/the Buddha. This concept is blasphemy for a Christian as Christ is thought of as being something totally different (God) than people (man). The Christian goal is to follow Christ ("like a lamb follows the shephard"), NOT to realize that you are Christ or become Christ.

What does this have to do with those of us who teach yoga? I think that we need to be sensitive to where our students are coming from and teach classes that work for all of them. That does not mean teaching differently, but rather choosing words (as well as poses) that work for the people in the class. I believe that as teachers we should be inclusive and try not alienate anyone, while staying true to what it is that we teach. We accommodate people with physical disabilities whenever possible and we need to accommodate people with mental/belief disabilities as well. If we believe that yoga will open the mind and the body of the practitioner, we need to understand that we need to start where each student is and go from there. We also need to trust that yoga will work; maybe not as we see it, but it will work in a unique way for each unique person. As each individual gets more in touch with their mind/body/energy, transformation happens. Our job as teachers is not to try to replace one belief system with another; our job is to give the students the tools they need to transform themselves; from the inside out.
Jim

Edited by jimg 2008-09-16 2:24 PM
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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-09-16 2:07 PM (#110847 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


I like that.
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tourist
Posted 2008-09-16 7:32 PM (#110854 - in reply to #110846)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
I like that, too. I will add though, and I always hesitate to get into this stuff, that not all Christians believe that the one and only complete truth is in the Bible. The fundamentalists - yes. In other places, cooler heads prevail.
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Bay Guy
Posted 2008-09-16 10:00 PM (#110863 - in reply to #110854)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State
I guess it's it's kind of pointless to try to talk rationally about things that are fundamentally irrational. Either you agree or you don't....

.. besides, god lives in the plants in my yard. He talks to me while I am not paying attention, and evades me most of the time when I look to carefully for him.


... bg
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yogiJ
Posted 2008-09-23 4:00 AM (#111005 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


nice one bj,i like the word 'irrational'.Religion is not in the way it has to be,it's been misinterpretated and being religious is forgotten is by the world.existence is the greatest gift and yoga helps in makin our existence meaningful.
Really doesn't matter which religion we belong to,it is how we live our life to the fullest.
It's about choices,it really hard to say,it has to be experienced.yoga is truth and it is has to experienced.
just to share one information..CROSS is sacred in christianity,horizontal line refers to time and the vertical line refers to consciousness,i.e,awareness,
-----Book of understanding by Osho.
and yoga is a path for awareness

Edited by yogiJ 2008-09-23 4:10 AM
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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-10-08 7:49 AM (#111283 - in reply to #111005)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


That is true only if one's whatever accepted religion and the underlying logic allows one to live the life to fullest. For example, I have a friend who recently rented a room from another close friend of mine. Now, these two individuals are very very good, because both of them give me fantastic food treats! One is Islamic and another Hindu. The Hindu friend of mine rented a room from the Islamic lady that I know and who is a good person. But, just before moving in, she told my Hindu friend that he is NOT allowed any pictures, including his own wife's picture on the walls of the room. Now, he feels that he can not live his life to the fullest without his wife's picture!


yogiJ - 2008-09-23 4:00 AM

Really doesn't matter which religion we belong to,it is how we live our life to the fullest.
It's about choices,it really hard to say,it has to be experienced.yoga is truth and it is has to experienced.
just to share one information..CROSS is sacred in christianity,horizontal line refers to time and the vertical line refers to consciousness,i.e,awareness,
-----Book of understanding by Osho.
and yoga is a path for awareness
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sagopalm
Posted 2008-12-05 5:40 PM (#112271 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


There were some misunderstandings before. Prresently, even the Catholic priests practise Yoga meditation.

What makes your meditation Christian is your Christian faith.

The promoters of Christain meditation were Father late John Main and Father
Laurence Freeman.

On Sunday 30-Nov-08 there was even a TV show (Canada TeleLatino Channel)
in which Fr. Laurence Freeman demonstrated Christian meditation.

You find the basis of it on:

http://www.wccm.org/faqslist.asp?pagestyle=faqlist

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sagopalm
Posted 2008-12-05 10:51 PM (#112273 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: Re: Yoga and Christianity


Actually there is official approval of Christian meditation by the Pope John Paul II, Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, headed by the present Pope: Letter to the bishops of the Catholic church on same aspects of Christian meditation.

It is a long document, which needs thorough study. It seems that there are some subtle differences between Christian and Yoga meditation.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm
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Shakuhachi
Posted 2008-12-20 4:29 PM (#112452 - in reply to #112273)
Subject: Re: Yoga and Christianity


Member

Posts: 28
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sagopalm - 2008-12-06 9:51 PM

Actually there is official approval of Christian meditation by the Pope John Paul II, Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, headed by the present Pope: Letter to the bishops of the Catholic church on same aspects of Christian meditation.

It is a long document, which needs thorough study. It seems that there are some subtle differences between Christian and Yoga meditation.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm


It comes down to what your intention is. If you are trying to acheive your own salvation through a technique, that is more of a taboo yoga practice. If you are doing the same thing but to calm yourself and make yourself more present and availible to God so that Christ may work in you, that is ok.

Another significant difference is the unity/diversity doctrine. Christianity teaches ultimate diversity, yoga pretty much a unity. Talk of an ultimate unity with God is pretty much Christian heresy. But not the way I understand it. I do not speak of it in my Catholic Christian circle but I am more advaita. Bede Griffiths has helped me on that to see that it is not either/or but both/and. I think that was an important aspect of what Jesus taught but it ran countercultural to the Hebrew concept of God.

My problem is that I have a much more eastern unitive world view but at the same time I love the Church rituals. In Catholic circles I am considered on the edge if not totally heterodox. I love Christ and accept him as my savior but I understand him from a yoga perspective, a manifestation of God like all of us except that he clearly knew it through and through. Most of us catch only a glimps now and then.
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pixiesusan
Posted 2009-03-20 7:38 AM (#114740 - in reply to #83192)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


I know this thread is old but I read it all, very interesting but the poster (I'm sorry I don't know your name) "purnayoga" mentioned the booklet "Difference Between Religion and Yoga" written by The Mother.

I've googled it and can't find any place I can buy it. Can anyone help me with this?

Thank you.

susan
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Shakuhachi
Posted 2009-03-23 9:16 PM (#114877 - in reply to #114740)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Member

Posts: 28
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pixiesusan - 2009-03-21 6:38 AM

I know this thread is old but I read it all, very interesting but the poster (I'm sorry I don't know your name) "purnayoga" mentioned the booklet "Difference Between Religion and Yoga" written by The Mother.

I've googled it and can't find any place I can buy it. Can anyone help me with this?

Thank you.

susan


if anywhere I thought you would find it here:

http://www.infobuddhism.com/infobuddhism/institute%20for%20wholistic%20education/design/mother.html
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