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Yoga and Christianity
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sark
Posted 2007-04-12 4:51 PM (#83174)
Subject: Yoga and Christianity


Are the 2 compatible? I have just started yoga as a way to be more at peace with myself. However I am a devout Christian. At first it bothered me a bit that there was a buddha idol in the studio(at least that is who i think it is, might just be some generic man for all I know), but then I thought you see those types of things in a lot of places and it's not like I am praying to it or anything. Whenever I bring it up to other Christians I know ( who do not practice yoga ), they tell me I am making a mountain out of a mole hill ( which I am very good at doing ). So i started to research it on the internet and found mixed results, most Christian sites being against it but some for it, some churches even offer yoga classes, so there is no consensus. My faith is very important to me and comes first in my life.

I would like anyones opinions on this and what you did or found out to bring yourself peace on this subject. Until I fully work this out, I will never be able to get the full benefits of yoga. Thanks in advance for any replies.
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grasshopper
Posted 2007-04-12 5:23 PM (#83177 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Run for the hills. Yoga is an acronym for (Y)ou will become (O)ne with the (G)lorious (A)nti-Christ. Get out while there is still time. You have been warned.




By the way, was it a samyaksambuddhas or pratyekabuddhas Buddha?

Edited by grasshopper 2007-04-12 5:28 PM
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-04-12 5:27 PM (#83178 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


I read the bible, read it probably 10 times through and through

I was raised Christian and didn't miss a Sunday School or Sermon for 18 years


I went to college, learned about a lot of other ideas, began practicing yoga--starting doing some real thinking, then some meditation

Ultimately you must decide what your faith is, I'm glad you are reaching for the knowledge

we don't really know when it comes to faith, and belief, because if we knew then it wouldn't be faith or belief, now, would it?

Any sort of inflexible dogma that can not stand up to truth can not stand in a clear mind, so clear your mind

there you may see for yourself what is compatible and what is not

that is all

thank you, come again

Edited by SCThornley 2007-04-12 5:27 PM
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laylie99
Posted 2007-04-12 6:09 PM (#83179 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


sark - 2007-04-12 1:51 PM

I have just started yoga as a way to be more at peace with myself. However I am a devout Christian. At first it bothered me a bit that there was a buddha idol in the studio(at least that is who i think it is, might just be some generic man for all I know),



Can't say I understand how you could have ever been "bothered" by an image of who you thought was Buddha, especially if you weren't even aware of who/what you're looking at... but it's good that you're not "bothered" anymore.

It seems to me you had already answered your own question: You started yoga to be at peace with yourself...

You're not going to find an answer by doing an internet search. You need to look inside yourself. You already have the answers. I understand that your faith comes first... but this should also apply to having faith in yourself.

If you honestly think that christianity and yoga are incompatible or that yoga somehow makes you a bad christian, then maybe you shouldn't practice.

But it seems you've already come to your own conclusions about this...
which is why you are practicing in the first place, right?






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tourist
Posted 2007-04-12 6:40 PM (#83182 - in reply to #83179)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
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The most religious person I know is a devout Catholic, though certainly by any description she would be called a liberal Catholic. She worked with Mother Teresa and washed the feet of diseased street people in India and saw (or at least tried really hard to see) the light of the Divine in them. She comes to my class, chants the OMs and invocation to Patanjali. She leaves in silence after the final OM to keep the Peace and Light within her. If it works for her, I don't see how it can't work for others. But you do have to figure it out for yourself. And for the record, Buddha is not a yoga "deity" of any kind if that is helpful to you. I would hate to see someone miss out on the benefits of yoga for what to me is essentially semantics. Good luck in your search!
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Posted 2007-04-12 6:49 PM (#83186 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


alright, so, here it is.

yoga and christianity are compatible.

yoga is a spiritual discipline just like prayer, meditation, group worship, rituals. these disciplines help us embrace and experience the Divine (however one would define that). no one religion 'corners the market' on disciplines, though different religions 'specialize' in specific disciplines--such as christianity cornerstoning on prayer, buddhism cornerstoning on meditation, etc. but, these religions do not say that one cannot practice other spiritual disciplines within their context--many christians practice meditation, ritual, group worship, etc--and many other religions practice multiple disciplines as well.

thus, you can add yoga to your spiritual disciplines, if you like.
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joannark
Posted 2007-04-12 7:01 PM (#83188 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I'm a Christian (my husband's a pastor) and my faith is the most important part of my life. And yes, I believe Jesus Christ is the only route to salvation.

That being said, yoga has seriously helped me understand things about myself my Christian upbringing and current ownership of my Christian faith never really exposed. That's not to say they're contradictory! To practice "true" yoga you probably would be at conflict with your Christian faith. But to practice yoga asanas and to benefit from meditation you do not have to embrace the religious tenents of the Hindu faith. The eastern world has reached a much higher understanding of the human body and mind than the west has. Yoga has taught me so much about how God has created me. I am fully convinced that when we die someday and finally learn the truth of all things, we will be amazed at the complexity and inter-connectedness of God's creation, primarily the human body and spirit. There is so much potential for better health through yoga than ignoring our mind-body connection. I struggled for a while with even doing "sun salutations" (gasp - am I WORSHIPPING the sun?!) or even saying "namaste" at the end of class and bowing. But I think people who run away, afraid they are doing some sort of evil "magic" are those who have not found security in their own faith in God. God can not be hurt by idols and we are not offending God if we do not put any stock in them. It is when we think these idols hold power that counters God's power that we are actually acting blasphemously. But when we discard these idols as just that - false idols - we are essentially saying they are not powerful because they are nothing.

I'm probably going to get blasted for this post but I get really, really, really peeved when Christians knock yoga. It is just SO ignorant and feeble.
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Posted 2007-04-12 7:38 PM (#83192 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Yoga is not religion. There's a very short booklet oddly enough called, "Difference Between Religion and Yoga" written by The Mother (who continues Sri Aurobindo's work after he left the physical body). Sixty pages and $3.00 so there's no excuse:-) It is well presented and makes a very good catalyst for thought.

I do not understand the presence of Hindu deities in a yoga asana classroom. In some cases it reflects the beliefs of the owners. In other cases it is simply mis-knowledge and mis-perception and thus mis-decorating.

One of the things people fail to realize is that Divinity is all things. It is not just wellness but it is disease. it is not just the beautiful river but the trashy gutter of a city street. Moses, Buddha, Mohammed, Jesus, there is no copright on divinity, no trademark, no ownership. Those are the things of human mind not divine spirit.

We better worship the sun, and the oxygen, and the water, and the food because with our current practices we surely aren't going to have them much longer. Haven't we been disconnected long enough and it's the definition of insanity still "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the result to be different"?

Yoga practice is a pathway to connecting with your soul, the self. If your religion (whatever it may be)facilitates that progress, and that progress has been evidenced over your years, and you are a more connected, more compassionate, more relating human being than you were when you started, then rock on with your bad self. If not then it's more than pertinent to ask, "when am I going to get it" and "will yoga help me get it", not around my beliefs but THROUGH them.

Jesus is a mind-state which is completely supported by the vast body of wisdom known as Yoga. The divine has many messengers and we are all mailboxes. Some of us only check the box once a month, other never at all. Yoga puts you IN the mailbox.

But if it freaks you out then you shouldn't do it. It is better to live happily under a rock than to live miserably under the wing of divinity.



Edited by purnayoga 2007-04-12 7:41 PM
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-12 7:39 PM (#83193 - in reply to #83188)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
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joanna - I hope you don't get blasted, but just incase, I am going to give you a big CHEER first!!!!

Hurray!!!!!!!!!!
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GreenJello
Posted 2007-04-12 7:41 PM (#83194 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


I think it says some place in the bible that by their works you shall know them. Think about the people that are in your current yoga studio, and how yoga impacts their lives. If you think it's a positive improvement, then continuing doing it. If not, stop.

For the record buddha was not a god, and never claimed to be, therefore any representations of him are no more idols than statues of JFK, Einstein, or the pope.
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joannark
Posted 2007-04-12 8:19 PM (#83196 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


The Christians I talk to (or talk "at" usually) who can't figure out how I can do yoga and be true to my faith always point out that doing yoga is "dangerous." This is where the idol comment fits in. They think by practicing yoga asanas you are participating in some sort of pagan ritual which will open the doors to the occult (seriously). That you are opening yourself up to demonic influence. They are, essentially, afraid of the Hindu religion because they think it and all its symbolism and ritual is POWERFUL. I point to passages in the New Testament by Paul which talk about eating the food used in idol worship - the food is not dangerous or you are not evil because you eat it - the idols hold no power because they are not real. The food used in these sacrifices is perfectly good nutrition! Paul warns against the appearance of participation in the idol-worship, not the actual eating of the meat. He never says it is wrong, however. He just says to be careful that you are not striving to fit into the world and that others will not be able to distinguish you, a child of God, from the "pagans". Yoga is actually a wonderful practice in that we Christians can learn the wisdom that these "pagans" have to offer us (the food in the idol sacrifices had nutrional value) without being Hindus ourselves (you draw your own line by examining your motivations - are you trying to "fit in" with your class by bowing and saying "namaste" or have you finally come to understand the benefit of that salutation and asana without attachment to how others see you?). Hope this made sense.
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grasshopper
Posted 2007-04-12 8:41 PM (#83199 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


I love these threads. They seem to pop-up on this forum from time to time. Some get quite lengthy and heated. It's fascinating how people reconcile their cultural beliefs with their intuition.

As laylie99 pointed out, the answer may be in your question. Why are you not completely at peace with yourself? What is it about Yoga that has led you to this question?
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-04-12 9:19 PM (#83202 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



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Hey Grasshopper,

You should mosey over to the philosophy section and you will find several hundred pages of this very topic.  It's quite interesting to say the least over there.  Have fun reading all of it.  I'm going to take a bow on this thread because I'm still pooped out from this discussion 2 years ago,

Whoever said that about Hindu dieties.....there is a place for everything and if you're going to worship Ganesh, a yoga room is certainly a good place to have his statue.  My personal favorite diety is Devi Durga.  I've always liked her riding that Tiger...she gives me so much motivation and strength,  

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Bay Guy
Posted 2007-04-12 9:32 PM (#83204 - in reply to #83202)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



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This thread is in the wrong forum, and, as Cyndi-ji points out, it is a topic that we have discussed at great length.

If you take yoga as it is described in the ancient texts, like the Gita and the Yoga Sutras, then you are led to understand that Man can approach God by introspection, self discipline, and practice. If you take Christianity as described by its fundamentalist proponents, the one and only path to God is through our Saviour, Jesus Christ. So you have an unignorable contradiction in bringing the two together.

If, on the other hand, you take Hatha Yoga's physical aspects in isolation of the underlying philosophy, you have nothing to fear as a Christian "practicing yoga".  You might, however, encounter folks who would tell you that you are not actually practicing yoga. 

And so the debate would continue.

So far as statues of deities in the yoga studio, I can't really see why Buddha would be there -- maybe as a inspiration to meditation.  It's quite obvious why Siva might be there -- as the author of yoga -- and Ganesha certain has a place, given that some say he is a greater yogi that his father, and since he in any event should be acknowledged at the start.

Om Sri Ganeshaya namah,

.. bg

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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-04-13 12:34 AM (#83215 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Today, I shall tell you one funny and true thing.

When the great Jesus Christ lived, around 2006 years ago, Yoga was already few thousand years old.

I am sure that either a) Jesus did know Yoga as he was All knowing. OR b) He did not know Yoga and he was NOT all knowing.

I want to assume the first as true. As the second assumption defies this thread.

Assuming the first one: Jesus never said anything Against Yoga.
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Orbilia
Posted 2007-04-13 4:48 AM (#83239 - in reply to #83192)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Well said. This more or less sums up the experience I recently had on my yoga retreat in Egypt. You have coalesced things nicely for me, thanks.

Fee

purnayoga - 2007-04-13 12:38 AM

Yoga is not religion. There's a very short booklet oddly enough called, "Difference Between Religion and Yoga" written by The Mother (who continues Sri Aurobindo's work after he left the physical body). Sixty pages and $3.00 so there's no excuse:-) It is well presented and makes a very good catalyst for thought.

I do not understand the presence of Hindu deities in a yoga asana classroom. In some cases it reflects the beliefs of the owners. In other cases it is simply mis-knowledge and mis-perception and thus mis-decorating.

One of the things people fail to realize is that Divinity is all things. It is not just wellness but it is disease. it is not just the beautiful river but the trashy gutter of a city street. Moses, Buddha, Mohammed, Jesus, there is no copright on divinity, no trademark, no ownership. Those are the things of human mind not divine spirit.

We better worship the sun, and the oxygen, and the water, and the food because with our current practices we surely aren't going to have them much longer. Haven't we been disconnected long enough and it's the definition of insanity still "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the result to be different"?

Yoga practice is a pathway to connecting with your soul, the self. If your religion (whatever it may be)facilitates that progress, and that progress has been evidenced over your years, and you are a more connected, more compassionate, more relating human being than you were when you started, then rock on with your bad self. If not then it's more than pertinent to ask, "when am I going to get it" and "will yoga help me get it", not around my beliefs but THROUGH them.

Jesus is a mind-state which is completely supported by the vast body of wisdom known as Yoga. The divine has many messengers and we are all mailboxes. Some of us only check the box once a month, other never at all. Yoga puts you IN the mailbox.

But if it freaks you out then you shouldn't do it. It is better to live happily under a rock than to live miserably under the wing of divinity.

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jonnie
Posted 2007-04-13 8:51 AM (#83244 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


sark - 2007-04-13 12:51 AM

I have just started yoga as a way to be more at peace with myself. However I am a devout Christian.


Hi ken,

I'm curious about the above statement. Why do you feel you need to go outside of your religion to find peace?

In his summary of the law, Jesus tells us to love the Lord our God with all our heart, all our soul, all our mind and all our strength and to love our neighbour as ourselves. There is no other commandment greater than these.

In my experience, if I focus on achieving this, everything else seems Irrelevant.

Jonathon
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OptiMystic
Posted 2007-04-13 10:54 AM (#83255 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Do you know about Centering Prayer?

It's Christian contemplative meditation. If you search for yoga on that site, you will get several hits; a number of centering parayer groups sponsor yoga sessions as a suggested training for centering prayer.

The only place in the Bible that quotes Christ being very specific about what criteria you will be used in final judgment is in Matthew 25:31-46. It's all about compassion for others, not how you meditate or which tradition's stories are most accurate.
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dmbones
Posted 2007-04-13 10:55 AM (#83256 - in reply to #83244)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Hi Ken,

Welcome!

Genesis 2:7
the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.


A search of each major religion's writings for the word "breath" will provide very valuable insight and point to the mysterious connection which we may each explore personally. How can the creature ever know the Creator? Is it possible to experience our living being-ness beyond the mind's knowledge? What are the fruits seen in those who travel this path? Thank you for your questions and search. God speed.

Michael


Edited by dmbones 2007-04-13 10:55 AM
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sark
Posted 2007-04-13 1:24 PM (#83269 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Thank you for all the replies. They have helped ease my mind. To answer some of the points brought up:

-Why do I go outside Christianity to find peace? I have generalized anxiety where I tend to worry all the time. Praying to God does bring me great peace, as does attending church. However you need to help yourself, you cannot just pray to God everytime you have problems and expect a miraculous cure(even though it does happen). You need to use what is available to you. I use prayer time with God,relaxation techniques, meditation(Lectio Divina), and yoga. To say this has brought me immense relief is an understatement. I could have used western medicine and gone on medication(which may or may not have worked) or I could use eastern techniques such as yoga. I tried yoga first and see benefits after only 5 weeks. If after 5 weeks I am seeing such benefits, what will I be like incorporating it and the other things I do into my lifestyle?
-about centering prayer- yes, I do that most days. I have always heard it called Lectio Divina and it does bring me great relaxation and understanding of God's word.

What I have been asking myself is would I hesitate to eat in an Indian,Chinese,Thai, etc resteraunt with statues in there and food prepared by Hindu's,Buddhists,etc? No, would not even think about it

Would I go to India and practice yoga in a Hindu temple and try to seek enlightenment? No, would not do that

Would I practice yoga here as a form to relax the mind and body and find inner peace and a greater understanding of my body? Looks that way. When I am doing a sun salutation, I know I am not worshipping the sun, as all it is is a big ball of gas, no different than a stone I might pick up, both are God's creation and everything must be respected and revered.

2 commandments are at issue
1. Do not worship any other Gods - I am not doing that
2. Do not make any idols or bow to them - I am not doing that either.

Thanks for the replies and letting me work thru this and air out my thoughts. Even saying nanaste does not bother me now, basically a greeting. People say aloha all the time and no one gets worked up about that.
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Posted 2007-04-13 2:10 PM (#83273 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


We must always consider the accuracy of something that originates from experience and is then translated by intellect.
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-04-13 2:22 PM (#83275 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


if you've got the bible online do a word search for craven images


there are a lot of rules in there

and

if you really wanna be serious about your 'Christianity' go to the foundation books of it all

read

The Tanach---the Stone version is very good

the Talmud

and a lot more than the 'modern' translations of what people have been led to believe is the authoritative version of salvation.



When you get your spiritual knowledge second hand, that is, taking someone else's word for it, it's like drinking water down stream from a herd of cattle.

Get your knowledge from the source, it's cleaner, like drinking water from the original spring.

No amount of second hand learning will substitute for drinking the life giving waters of the fountainhead.

hopefully you thirst for knowing, and are not simply satisfied with believing and holding onto your faith.

let your faith be exposed to what is out there, if your faith is real, then, it will become stronger, otherwise you'll have your work cut out for you.

Good luck.
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tweeva
Posted 2007-04-22 4:42 PM (#83942 - in reply to #83174)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity



Veteran

Posts: 101
100
There are more similarities in today's world religions (to which I include, for simplicity, Buddhism), than their leaders are willing to admit. Remember that those are mainly institutions in which, as with all big organisations, the quest for power is predominant.
Those institutions are not important. You are.
True belief rests within your own Heart. Examine your Heart. It knows the Truth.
If you are truthful to your own Heart, Christ won't bother about the Buddha in your Yoga classroom a single bit. You can trust me on that one. Being a Christian, you might examine your true motives for doing Yoga, though.
What was it again that Christ said about your physical body? And what is meditation? I see an important analogy in Christ's teachings...
So yes, the 2 are certainly compatible, but don't just jump any bandwagon that comes along (don't do spiritual window shopping).
Tw
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Shakuhachi
Posted 2008-06-15 2:43 PM (#108433 - in reply to #83192)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Member

Posts: 28
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purnayoga - 2007-04-14 6:38 PM

Yoga is not religion. There's a very short booklet oddly enough called, "Difference Between Religion and Yoga" written by The Mother (who continues Sri Aurobindo's work after he left the physical body).


I consider myself a devout Christian and my Christian life is a form of yoga. I am currently reading Aurobindo's The Synthesis of Yoga adn see a great deal of Christian flavor. It is very incarnational, resurrectional. The whole thing about spirit transforming the material universe. I guess some people like myself see and appreciate the unifying truth beneath divergent expresions and others can only focus on the divergency.

www.sriaurobindoashram.info/


I also am very attracted to ther writings of Bede Griffiths, a Catholic sannysin who worked very hard to reconcile East and West spirituality.

http://www.bedegriffiths.com/

Edited by Shakuhachi 2008-06-15 2:44 PM
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Phil
Posted 2008-06-25 3:28 PM (#108683 - in reply to #108433)
Subject: RE: Yoga and Christianity


Going back to the root OP,
This book might help:

The Second Coming Of Christ.
The Resurrection of the Christ Within You.
By Paramahansa Yogananda.
ISBN: 0-87612-555-0

Yogananda was give a divine mission by Babji through his guru Swami Sri Yukteswar.
To right a Commentary on The New Testament, and the Bhagavad Gita, to create a synthesis between yoga and Christianity.
He turns the bible into an esoteric approach to Christianity.
These two books, well in fact there's four books in all, are some of the most influential books I've read.
Hope you can get your hands on them.
Phil
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