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Class size
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SiriusSpirit
Posted 2007-04-11 9:07 AM (#83005)
Subject: Class size


I am very confused. I have always heard that the result of effective teaching is returning students, which makes sense.
I have cut down my yoga instruction to teaching at a gym that I admit is somewhat of a chaotic atmosphere with an "exercise room" that is not wonderfully conducive to yoga. But I am growing very concerned about my class numbers and feeling like this has more to do with me than the atmosphere.
I get very positive verbal feedback from students -- it seems they go out of their way at times to tell me how much they like my classes -- yet in general they do not return and/or do not become regular students.
I feel, of course, that I'm doing something wrong.
For a few months, when this began, I attributed it to my emotional state of mind. I had two family deaths and was going through some other turmoil, and I was feeling that I must have been emitting negative vibes or something. But now that the negativity/turmoil has lifted, I'm not seeing my classes pulling back together.
I'm not sure what to do and have considered quitting teaching at the gym, focusing on my own practice, pulling it all back together, and starting teaching again later on in the year.
Any suggestions or comments?
Thanks.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-04-11 9:13 AM (#83006 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


Dear SirusSpirit: This is what I would say in response:


a) You have to know why you want more students in the class. Is it popularity, income, satisfaction, etc.

b) Number of students do NOT show effectiveness of instruction in a real sense. It shows that your classes are popular.

c) Many (I might dare to say 'most') students of Yoga are only going there for exercise + socialization or at least emotional nurturing. So, do not think your instruction is deficient.

You can think on the above things.
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ollie
Posted 2007-04-11 10:11 AM (#83012 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


Also,

there is no easy way to say this: sometimes class sizes are just cyclical; at certain times of the year more students show up, fewer at other times of the year. I know that my teacher's classes cycle up and down, with the morning sometimes getting as small as 4 regulars to the 15 that we have now.

Or, for the class I subbed, I had 13; the other sub (who is a much better teacher than I) had only 6.


For Neel: if "d" is the days after the new year, N the number of students in the class and N0 - |A| equal to the smallest observed class size, and "p" is the period of the cycle

N = N0 + A*sin((2*pi)/(p))*d) and |A|
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-11 10:32 AM (#83017 - in reply to #83006)
Subject: RE: Class size


Neel -- I am going to print out your reponse onto several full size sheets of paper and hang them all over my house. Thank you!!

SirusSpirit -- This issue of popularity determining my value as a teacher has been plaguing me for pretty much as long as I've been teaching, over three years now. And I would also get tons of positive comments and feedback from the students -- when they'd show up, that is. "If they like me so much, why don't they come??" It's really tough not to let yourself fall into the trap of thinking like that. When you start to have expectations about your students, attachments to them and their reactions to your classes (they like, they don't like, they come, they don't come), that's when the trouble starts. Teach because you love to teach. Or don't. Let go of whoever it is that you actually end up teaching to, or better yet, if they end up learning anything from what you're teaching (my biggest issue). Just offer it up and don't look for the outcome. Tough stuff, for sure, but it's really the right way to go.

Oh, and do I need to mention that I'm not teaching yoga classes (yet), but only fitness? I teach a connection of the mind to the body through movement in my classes, only thing is, we wear shoes. The spirit of what I teach is no different. So even more so the desire in gyms is only for the movement, with nothing else aside from that involved. So believe me I know how it is in that environment.

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tourist
Posted 2007-04-11 10:33 AM (#83018 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
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SS - our class sizes always dip in the spring when people get outside and start doing more things. Just a fact of life. And no - the key to class size and popularity is the day and time. Mon., Tues., and Wed. are prime teaching days and 6 - 8 pm are the prime hours. That is why you get competition for those days and times in studios with several teachers. Any situation like a gym is even more volatile, because people often get their classes "free" as part of their membership package and people do NOT honour anything they get (even perceive to get) without paying for it. Add the drop-in factor (our studio registers for a term - MUCH nicer, but not foolproof) and you get the situation that you have found yourself in.

Good luck and I am sorry to hear of your family issues. Feel better soon and do let us know how things go for you.
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Posted 2007-04-11 10:44 AM (#83021 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


Also Penny, in that gym environment, indeed, many public classes, yoga is at the bottom of the priority list for so many people--especially at the end of the day--job and family committments, exhaustion, traffic, weather, and general ennui often override the desire to attend class.
I run into that a lot doing an early evening weekday class. However, like you, I often examine myself to ensure I'm doing the best I can each class--I make sure I'm there early, clean and tidy the joint and have reviewed what & how I plan to teach. Of course, by the time people arrive, their collective vibe often dictates all planning goes out the window. In teaching yoga, flexibility is key (hardy har har).
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Posted 2007-04-11 2:20 PM (#83041 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


Students who truly are dedicated to aspiration are so much more important than the number of them.

It is completely appropriate for you, as a teacher, to examine these things you bring up. Is it you? That is very fertile ground for your own introspection and possible growth.

But also the duality of this is that it might not be you at all. You simply make be offering Yoga to a group wanting asana. Or you may be offering asana to a group wanting cardio. The possibility exists that you are merely in the wrong venue for you and your teaching. Both of these should be examined by you but neither one of them should affect your self-worth.

There is nothing wrong with making change in your teaching venues or schedule as long as it is in alignment with your dharma and the decisions themselves are not made from a place of anxiety but rather one of clarity
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ollie
Posted 2007-04-11 3:02 PM (#83043 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


And think of it this way: one time I decided that I had some unexpected free time and therefore treated myself to a class at a local yoga studio.

I liked the teacher and told her so; I never went back because normally I have other things to do during that time slot.

But, about 10 months later, I noticed that this teacher was subbing for a class that I could make, so I made it a point to show up at her class!

(she said that she was glad that I was there; evidently she is not only beautiful but also knows how to fib... )



Edited by ollie 2007-04-11 3:03 PM
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shalamOM
Posted 2007-04-14 12:19 PM (#83351 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


I notice that the most popular teachers are skinny! It's weird. I even think I am a more popular teacher when I am at my thinnest, usually during the hot summer months. Students are so shallow!! Popularity is all it is...The 'celebrity' yogis are charismatic people...Like John Friend. I notice charasmatic people smile all the time...It's weird, but people like that. Don't mean I'm a gonna change though, lol!
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-14 4:29 PM (#83366 - in reply to #83351)
Subject: RE: Class size



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I am the least skinny teacher in my studio and have the most classes with full registration most terms. Because I teach Wednesday night Level I at 6 pm and Saturday morning at 9. You may be right as far as urban classes geared to young folk, but in suburbia (and frankly, at our mid-town sister studio it is the same) it is all about the day and time.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-14 4:43 PM (#83370 - in reply to #83351)
Subject: RE: Class size


shalamOM - 2007-04-14 12:19 PM I notice that the most popular teachers are skinny! It's weird. I even think I am a more popular teacher when I am at my thinnest, usually during the hot summer months. Students are so shallow!! Popularity is all it is...The 'celebrity' yogis are charismatic people...Like John Friend. I notice charasmatic people smile all the time...It's weird, but people like that. Don't mean I'm a gonna change though, lol!

So it's weird that people like people that smile a lot? I'm really having a hard time finding fault with that.... Honestly, if all things were even, and there was a teacher who smiled and one who didn't, I'd choose to take class with the smiley one. My teacher smiles a lot as well, as do we all. It's a bhakti studio; compassion and universal love are cultivated there just as strongly as a well-aligned downward dog. I can understand being a little weirded out by the pseudo idol worship of some rather popular yoga teachers such as John Friend. But being weirded out by what they stand for and how they exhibit it? Teach (and practice) exactly what's true for you, and don't worry so much about how other people might be viewing you, or others as well.

One of my husband's favorite quotes from the old TV show M*A*S*H: "It's nice to be nice to the nice." The more I think about that line these days, the more it does make sense, in spite of how silly it may sound.

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tourist
Posted 2007-04-14 4:45 PM (#83372 - in reply to #83370)
Subject: RE: Class size



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
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Frank Burns "Never let it be said that I didn't do the least I could do." Hawkeye Pierce. My personal favourite
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-14 4:52 PM (#83374 - in reply to #83366)
Subject: RE: Class size


Wow, tourist, 6pm Wednesday and 9am Saturday, those really ARE great time slots, good for you! I teach 8-9:30am Friday mornings (half hour and an hour), probably the least attended class time slots at my gym. Too late for those who go to work in the morning, and too early for the mommy set who need to drop the kids off at school. Plus it's a Friday, so people are either going off for the weekend or they're once in a blue moon attendees having a day off from work. I'm lucky if I see the same person 4 weeks in a row. But it's been more than a year now with my low numbers and my classes haven't been dropped, so... who knows? I'm not going to question the absence of bad news, so I guess I just have to keep smiling myself!
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-14 4:58 PM (#83375 - in reply to #83372)
Subject: RE: Class size


tourist - 2007-04-14 4:45 PM Frank Burns "Never let it be said that I didn't do the least I could do." Hawkeye Pierce. My personal favourite

One of his favorites as well!

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mishoga
Posted 2007-04-14 5:35 PM (#83378 - in reply to #83374)
Subject: RE: Class size



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OrangeMat - 2007-04-14 4:52 PM

Wow, tourist, 6pm Wednesday and 9am Saturday, those really ARE great time slots, good for you! I teach 8-9:30am Friday mornings (half hour and an hour), probably the least attended class time slots at my gym. Too late for those who go to work in the morning, and too early for the mommy set who need to drop the kids off at school. Plus it's a Friday, so people are either going off for the weekend or they're once in a blue moon attendees having a day off from work. I'm lucky if I see the same person 4 weeks in a row. But it's been more than a year now with my low numbers and my classes haven't been dropped, so... who knows? I'm not going to question the absence of bad news, so I guess I just have to keep smiling myself!


I too teach Friday mornings. I teach a 6:00 a.m. at one location, run back home get my youngest on the bus then shoot over to another location to teach two more classes. I love my Friday mornings. Not so much when my alarm goes off at 4:30 a.m. Fridays are strong in both of these locations.
Time slot is so important. I occasionally sub for a fitness yoga Instructor (she teaches yoga with wts) and her classes are at 7:00 p.m during the week and Sunday at 10:30 a.m. I told the fitness Director I wanted those classes (not that I would get them) but people come at those times.
I teach a 5:30 p.m. class and it's doing very well but I know my student base would grow strong if I was teaching at 7:00 p.m. Once you have a prime time slot, you keep it.

Class numbers go up and down throughout the year. It's pretty consistent that classes increase in size September, January and early Spring. Summer is dead. That's where my truebies are with me.
On the flip side, having too many students in one class is overwhelming. Some facilities like to pack em in. Just this morning I had 42 students in class. Some very experienced yogis practicing many, many years, while there were about 8 "new to yoga" students. Plus to top it off, the new students took the floor space of the regulars throwing the energy off (any seasoned teacher or fitness professional will know what I mean about floor space). I'll take a soft head count to overcrowded anyday. It's almost impossible to keep track of 35-50 people. I find the atmosphere is erratic when there are too many students to attend to.

I wish I could say "don't take is personal" and make you feel better. We all have those times we question our ability, social skills and interactions, etc.....
As far as charisma, some have it and some don't. This is fact. That is a quality that shows itself from a very young age. I'm happy for teachers who are successful as long as they are humble and thankful for their blessings. Any teacher that has the ability to infect others with their joy and love is alright by me.

And "skinny versus a little larger than life".......well yeah, it does seem the skinny minnies attract more but they have to be good teachers to keep them. I'm neither skinny or heavy. I'm 5'4" and average 136 lbs (size 4). Not light by any means but to be honest, it took me 20 years to realize my wt is not what I want to focus on. Nor is competing with other teachers of particular interest to me. I want to walk into my class room/studio and bring positive vibs that inspire my students to be the best they can be right at that very moment within their personal practice.
Honestly, I couldn't care less about other teachers looks or ability. I'm very confident, which does come off as cocky, but yoga or no yoga, I've always been comfortable with who I am deep inside. It just took 20 years for me to feel comfortable in expressing the true me.
Teaching is not about you, it's really about the students. Give them your best.


Edited by mishoga 2007-04-14 6:01 PM
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jeansyoga
Posted 2007-04-14 6:15 PM (#83380 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


Sirius - please do not worry! I work in a gym too and believe me, it is ALL about the schedule. I have a small number of wonderful, dedicated students who show up every time I teach, but for the most part I have packed classes when the students are able to make it. People are just really busy! I'm glad when anybody shows up at all. I'm actually in awe of the people who make extra special arrangements to get out of work early and call a babysitter so they can be in class. They're probably more dedicated than I am!

One thing to keep in mind is that if people like you but not the schedule, they will let the gym management know. Then they'll move you to a better time slot when more of your fans are able to attend.

On the other hand, I don't think it's wrong to examine the energy that you are bringing to class. Losses are a difficult part of life, and you certainly shouldn't "pretend" to be feeling some other way just to please what you think the students might enjoy more. You don't know when you might have a student also going through a difficult time that needs a more quiet practice. You'll find that when you are honest with yourself and approach your classes honestly with love and compassion and nothing fake whatsoever, you'll attract the students that need that kind of class at that time. If you examine your mindset and find you are still stuck in a bit of a downer when you're ready to pull out of it, you need to do what is necessary to break out of that rut and teach in your new mindset. This can be a wonderful learning process and you can bring what you've learned to your students in the future!

Best of luck to you! Please just don't get discouraged. It's all cyclical. If you like your job and enjoy teaching there, everything will come together. If you examine the situation and find it's not serving what you have to offer as a teacher, it might be time to move on. Follow your heart, and you can't go wrong!
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-15 11:20 AM (#83445 - in reply to #83380)
Subject: RE: Class size



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
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One of the biggest benefits of not being paid by class size is that we are not one bit competitive about our time slots. Our newer teachers are amazed that we juggle and shift classes to accommodate them or flat out give them ideal time slots right off the bat. It also helps that none of us rely 100% on teaching yoga for a living, so we teach when we want to teach, not because we need to.

Jean, very good addition about examining the energy and looking at how one teaches. It behooves us to all do that from time to time, for sure.
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-16 1:39 PM (#83526 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


I have 3 slots and I'm not giving them up. I worked hard to build a following.

My Flow class is more popular than my ashtanga class. Anything below 10 students is Red Alert. You must have at least 10 to keep a class going...

Our studio is primarily a Bikram studio and I'm always trying to beat the Bikram teachers in attendance. Our room is slightly smaller (not much). On Sunday mornings, I try to have between 20-25 We could make room for 30 and that would be tight.

The bikram room holds 40 and I'm starting to get more students. They have anywhere between 20-40.

I totally enjoy getting more students in my class because I don't like Bikram yoga very much and anytime I beat them I'm all smiles

A little healthy competition is good.

Eric




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Posted 2007-04-17 12:06 AM (#83559 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


This too shall pass.
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-17 11:41 AM (#83581 - in reply to #83005)
Subject: RE: Class size


Huh?

Please explain?

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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-17 1:56 PM (#83583 - in reply to #83581)
Subject: RE: Class size


Eric, I think Purna was replying directly to the OP, telling him/her not to worry about the diminishing class size.
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-17 2:04 PM (#83584 - in reply to #83583)
Subject: RE: Class size


Oh, i see. I just realized that you can tell how they are replying too.

Thanks Orangemat.

Eric
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Posted 2007-04-17 7:08 PM (#83591 - in reply to #83526)
Subject: RE: Class size


No, actually I was not replying to the OP. Hehhehehe.

Obviously Eric is being light hearted and playful. But still the topic has it's rewards, benefits, edges.

This too shall pass. The attachment or raga to class size and slots and popularity, and red alerts, and 40 students, and the total enjoyment of "getting more students"...these things will all pass. And that which follows will pass as well.

I remember my first "large" class. Twenty five or so, if the number is all that important. And I shared that information with my teacher at the time, Devi Dyal Singh. And to this day I still hear his voice echoing..."It's not about you, it's about the students". Ooops. Quite right DDS. I was all jacked on me. How great, how personable. How much everyone "liked" me. And I thought I had my ego well controlled. Yikes.

Honestly, are 40 people in a class really served in a yogic context when there is only one teacher? I think the beverage is quite dilluted. Fifteen is one thing. It's enough to keep the studio open and the teachers paid. Anything more is up for examination as ego, greed or other elements of the pelvic or "vital" force.

To each their own, of course. But from yogi to yogi we have to watch some things, both as individuals pursuing individual dharma and as the collective pursuing a collective dharma.

So, this too shall pass. Class sizes will come and go.
Slots will change. Studios will open and close. Students will be there and they will be absent.


TampaEric - 2007-04-16 10:39 AM

I have 3 slots and I'm not giving them up. I worked hard to build a following.

My Flow class is more popular than my ashtanga class. Anything below 10 students is Red Alert. You must have at least 10 to keep a class going...

Our studio is primarily a Bikram studio and I'm always trying to beat the Bikram teachers in attendance. Our room is slightly smaller (not much). On Sunday mornings, I try to have between 20-25 We could make room for 30 and that would be tight.

The bikram room holds 40 and I'm starting to get more students. They have anywhere between 20-40.

I totally enjoy getting more students in my class because I don't like Bikram yoga very much and anytime I beat them I'm all smiles

A little healthy competition is good.

Eric
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-18 10:14 AM (#83651 - in reply to #83591)
Subject: RE: Class size



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Somewhere years ago I think I read that 8 - 15 people was the ideal group size for adult learning. Smaller than that and things get focused on individuals too much and larger, as you say, the tea is too weak We do obviously have reasons for larger classes. Just as we will attend an auditorium sized lecture by an especially wonderful speaker, knowing we won't be able to ask individual questions, we might have an extra large class with an especially wonderful teacher, knowing we will not likely get hands on instruction. I'm always glad when my "full" classes of 20 average about 15 in actual attendance.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-18 1:09 PM (#83663 - in reply to #83651)
Subject: RE: Class size


tourist - 2007-04-18 10:14 AM Smaller than that and things get focused on individuals too much and larger, as you say, the tea is too weak

The tea is too weak, I like that. In my classes of at most 4 or 5 people (just my karma, I guess), somehow I've learned how to have a smaller cup.

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