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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
   
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | When you take your level #1 training, what asanas do they teach and what other aspects do they teach. Just curious??????
What is the main focus of the workshop????? |
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| I'll have to defer answering this one until I get home and see the manual. Off of the top of my head, versions of Warrior I, II, locust, modified camel, bow, child, down dog, up dog, cobra, tree, half moon (with modification), staff, wide legged forward bend, forward bend (both seated and standing), pyrmaid, triangle, chair, and a couple of "squatting" moves that they call "moonflowers" and "sun flowers".
They stress the sequence: "mountain 1" (warm up)
"valley 1" (transitional)
"mountain 2" (main part)
"valley 2" (transitional; do some balance"
"mountain 3" (seated, on the mat poses then corpse).
They go over each of the poses, what they lead to, how to cue them, what type of verbs to use, what common misalignments are and how to keep the students from hurting themselves.
I don't do all of my asanas the same way; I prefer the "looking up" version of Warrior I, and I prefer the "arms parallel to the floor" version of Warrior II instead of this:
and I prefer a wider stance on triangle.
But they tried to teach us the difference between a pose that might not look that good versus one that might injure a student (e. g., knee beyond the ankle in Warrior II).
Edited by ollie 2007-04-04 10:08 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | I think what bothers me most about this training method is the ethical behavior of some of the teachers/instructor's that come out of level #1 workshops.
I have a student that is going to enter into Rahini yoga training but she presently wants to explore yoga more (about 1 year more I believe). She takes all the yoga classes that are offered at this one establishment.
There is me, 2 Instructors that have level 1 certs and there is one 200 hr YA teacher.
One of the YF level 1 Instructors practiced Astanga for 8 years. Well, for whatever reason I think she believes that the level 1 cert is permission to teach Astanga. She has them doing very advanced poses and flows. Poses she is not trained to teach. Am I wrong in thinking she shouldn't be teaching asanas that she was not personally instructed to teach. There is a very big difference, as I'm sure you now know Ollie, between practicing and teaching. And worse, it seems I'm the only teacher that carries liability insurance. I can see her teaching standard poses but Bakasana, Halasana, Sarvangasana........ I don't know.
Am I just a worry wart? I know, why concern myself? Well these same students ask me why I don't teach the balance sequence. I tell them I am not trained in teaching those poses and do not want to put any students in harms way from incorrect instruction.
I think it's a little bit presumptious to think after one weekend workshop in any yoga tradition to think you're (meaning anyone in TT) qualifed to teach advanced poses, unless you are training in Power, Astanga, bikram, etc....... But I would imagine that wouldn't happen in your first weekend or in your first 16-20 hours of learning.
Ollie, this isn't directed at you. Just had to ask and vent too!
Edited by mishoga 2007-04-04 10:28 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| In a country famous (or infamous) for litigiousness like the US, I am amazed that people would even think of teaching without insurance  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | It's amazing, isn't it? These people think they could never be sued. They really believe they don't need it. Personally, I'm covering my booty.
Morning Tourist  |
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| Again...remember that I am an "emergency sub" only, covered by the Park District.
With the folks that we get (many can't even get into basic down dog; I had them doing "child" instead) teaching an advanced sequence is not a worry for me
And NO, NO, NO, I don't consider myself qualified to do that. 
You'd be horrified to see some of the teachers that actually teach classes around here; some of them literally don't know the correct foot placement for, say, Warrior I (they do it as a "lunge"), or that the front knee stays bent in "reverse warrior". |
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| I did Level I the summer of 2004. Don't know if they've changed the curriculum much since then, but I can tell you what's in my manual as of its copyright date of 2003: "Level I/Introduction to Teaching emphasizes safe physical execution, modifications, transitioning, sequencing, class formatting, transformational language, and innovative teaching skills." "Level II/Advanced teaches more advanced physical practice, teaching and communication skills, positive affirmations/mantras and breathing pranayama, chakras, and an introduction to physically adusting students." "Level III/Lifestyle teaches yoga anatomy, advanced physical practice and teaching skills, yamas/niyamas, introduction to physiology of meditation, power of journaling, psychology of yoga (right brain/left brain study and more), the discipline of a personal practice, and more." When I was taking these trainings, Level II was not a prerequisite for Level III (though that's how I did them). Obviously Level I was a prequisite for both. YF Concept: "YogaFit is designed to appeal to mainstream fitness enthusiasts. While based on an ancient yoga practice, YogaFit does not adhere to a particular philosophy, religion or type of meditation. YogaFit demystifies Yoga. While based on the proven benefits of a 6000 year old practice, the YogaFit workout is modern, simpl, and systematic. YogaFit IS 'Yoga for the Fitness Industry'." They stress alignment according to the following 7 principles: - hip hinge
- neutral spine
- scapular retraction and depression
- lever length
- head in line with spine
- knee alignment
- starfish hands and foundational feet (i.e. spread weight evenly in hands & feet)
In addition to Ollie's list of poses, they teach mountain, standing side bends, reverse warrior, extended side angle, standing wide-legged forward bend, pigeon, cat/cow, spinal balance, side plank, thread the needle, butterfly, boat, seated twist, incline plank/tabletop, happy baby (which they call dead bug), abdominal work (crunches), supine twist, bridge, plow, shoulderstand, fish, and knees, chest & chin which they call "modified crocodile" (chaturanga dandasana is called "crocodile". They also teach a sun salutation which is a meld of Classic Surya Namaskar and Surya Namaskar A. In the three years since taking that training and the subsequent ones, I've had to relearn most of the poses, since there was NO mention whatsoever about tucking the tailbone. Looking back, there was a lot of emphasis on vinyasa krama (intelligent sequencing), which is a good thing. Though I found it incredibly disappointing that I learned virtually NOTHING about "yoga lifestyle" in level III. Sure, we covered the yamas and niyamas, but other than language reinforcement, there was no emphasis on the journaling and the importance of cultivating a personal practice. Learning more and more new poses isn't going to make you a better teacher, yet that seemed to be everyone else's focus. So I abandoned that track and wound up at the bhakti studio where we chant and meditate and learn vinyasa as well. |
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| I could've sworn we were told we should have our own personal liability insurance as yoga instructors, but I don't see it documented in my manual. I've always had mine due to my certification as a personal trainer. There are different requirements throughout the fitness industry regarding insurance, different levels depending on what you teach. Group fitness instructors, for example don't need as much coverage as personal trainers. When I called my insurance company to ask about adding in for teaching yoga, they said I was already covered the sufficient amount by being a certified personal trainer. Also, when you teach at health clubs, if you're an employee there, you're probably already covered by the club's plan. If you are on
"independent contractor" status, you're required to carry your own insurance, even for group exercise (not necessarily yoga). Oh, also CPR certification is required for personal trainers, though not yoga teachers and group exercise instructors. We had CPR training at my current TT, as well as first aid training, though no certification testing and issuances. |
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| mishoga - 2007-04-04 10:23 AM I think it's a little bit presumptious to think after one weekend workshop in any yoga tradition to think you're (meaning anyone in TT) qualifed to teach advanced poses, unless you are training in Power, Astanga, bikram, etc....... But I would imagine that wouldn't happen in your first weekend or in your first 16-20 hours of learning. Ollie, this isn't directed at you. Just had to ask and vent too! I totally agree! Now put yourself in my place, I just signed up for the training with the intent to learn more myself, and here was being pushed to go teach! Oh sure, it's under the guise of "community service", those first 10 classes, but still, just because you aren't charging people doesn't put you in the clear of hurting them! After Level I, I knew I needed to learn more, which is why after a year of practicing on my own, I went back for Level II. But instead of learning more, I realized I knew even less of what there is to know. So I gave it one more last ditch effort and tried Level III. Strike three, I was out. |
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| Ollie, does Beth Shaw really instruct you to not have your arms parallel to the floor in Warrior II? I never really looked at the book cover for that before, and personally, I think she's just not doing it right. |
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| No, they don't actually tell you that (non-parallel arms), but that is how I see her doing it (in more than one photo).
Yes, they do mention insurance and recommend that you get it prior to the community service part. But the Park District covers us.
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| maybe i'm just off my rocker, but i teach poses that i'm not 'technically' trained to teach. i practice those poses with various modifications as my body discovers them, i study the movements with books and from the experiences of others (those who can do those poses allow me to watch them and share their experience) and i experiment with methods of how to teach the pose--by building it through other postures ultimately leading to that posture.
quite often, i even teach postures that i cannot even fathom, but that i have seen in DM's classes (among his students) that my students are ready for, but my body-mind is not (fear usually).
i think that if a teacher has been practicing astanga for some time, she has quite a bit of experience with those postures and a 'belief' as it were in the sequencing itself. she believes that the sequence--just like bikram, yoga fit, etc--that the sequence will allow the student to open over time, and that each posture builds to the next and that eventually the student will find the alignment.
it is likely that she has not been taught how to teach it, but that she knows how to teach it because she 1. has practiced the sequence and believes in it and 2. she has been given a teaching methodology that she can apply to any pose or any sequence. do you understand what i mean?
for example, many of the yin postures that i am required to teach here--i had not ever practiced or studied until 4 weeks ago. i got the books, the DVD, and i tried it out. it was different from the yin yoga classes in my area. i hardly got it into my body, but i can teach it because i know how to teach, because i studied the postures (with body and with intellect) and i know how to lead a sequence (timing, etc). So, you put those elements together and i teach that sequence.
so, if this teacher has that--even if only at the beginner level, then i don't see how it's any different from any other teacher creating new sequences or using sequences from others that they believe in--just a level of finesse in the how of it. |
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| You mean this reverse warrior with a straight leg instead of bent?
 (reversewarrior.jpg)
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 reversewarrior.jpg (44KB - 84 downloads)
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| Kym - 2007-04-04 5:24 PM
You mean this reverse warrior with a straight leg instead of bent?
Yep, one of our teachers always straightens her front leg while calling it "reverse warrior".
The photo you supplied is the way that my teacher does it, and she gets on to us if we start to lose the alignment. |
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| Kym - 2007-04-04 6:24 PM You mean this reverse warrior with a straight leg instead of bent? Don't know if you arbitrarily picked this picture to post for reverse warrior, because I couldn't help noticing it was a reverse of Warrior I with square hips. The way we practice it (and also how I learned it from YF) is with open hips from Warrior II. Both versions are correct, from what I've been learning, just that the distinction needs to be made that they are not the same pose. As an aside, in my studio we call this pose "Windswept Warrior", or sometimes even "Peaceful Warrior". In transitioning to Trikonasana, sometimes we move from Warrior II to Reverse Warrior, straighten the leg there, then hinge forward and down. The straight-leg transition pose doesn't get a name. |
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| zoebird - 2007-04-04 3:54 PM
maybe i'm just off my rocker, but i teach poses that i'm not 'technically' trained to teach.
I can't speak for Mish, but this is what I heard her say: she said the people like ME shouldn't be doing that.
You have a much greater and deeper knowledge of yoga than I do, and you have a good feel for what student is ready for what.
What I heard Mish say to ME is "just because you can muscle yourself into a headstand, bhujapidasana, bakasana or whatever doesn't mean that you are ready to teach these asanas" and I agree with that.
But what applies to me at my present stage of my "yoga journey" doesn't apply to you.  |
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| Oh! I thought you were saying reverse HAD a straight leg and I'd never seen or heard that before-lol!
OrangeMat-yes, that was an arbritary pic that I found online in about 2 seconds. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | ollie - 2007-04-05 9:57 AM
zoebird - 2007-04-04 3:54 PM
maybe i'm just off my rocker, but i teach poses that i'm not 'technically' trained to teach.
I can't speak for Mish, but this is what I heard her say: she said the people like ME shouldn't be doing that.
You have a much greater and deeper knowledge of yoga than I do, and you have a good feel for what student is ready for what.
What I heard Mish say to ME is "just because you can muscle yourself into a headstand, bhujapidasana, bakasana or whatever doesn't mean that you are ready to teach these asanas" and I agree with that.
But what applies to me at my present stage of my "yoga journey" doesn't apply to you.
Zoe, you are very educated and experienced to teach more advanced asanas.
Astanga is a fast paced (could be depending on Teacher) class and strenuous. If someone also took workshops to learn more about all aspects of yoga within the 8 year period than maybe. But to just practice (the physical practice) for 8 years, then take one weekend workshop and start teaching advanced sequences, well, I don't think that's ethical or safe. Funny thing is in the big corporate gyms, all you need is a level I cert and off you go to teach.
Not that it is bad, but I just think one should be very careful with their instruction given in particular poses, especially when you have floaters popping in and out all the time. People who have never taken yoga and just drop in to try it. This happens all the time in big business gyms. Those are the challneging multi level classes. Newbies still have ego pushing them to do what they really shouldn't too.
Ollie, I think you are meant to be a teacher. Some things fall into our laps for a reason. You are an infant in your path as I and a 2 year old 
Some are teenagers here and some have really been following the path for a long time. I hope that desire to go and learn at workshops never fades.
Edited by mishoga 2007-04-05 10:30 AM
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| i think it might be important to point out that, within the astanga school, the primary series is a beginner's series. it's considered a therapeutic practice good for beginners. other schools may feel that the postures are 'too advanced' for beginners, but within that system, they are considered basic.
to contrast, some of the postures in bikram's series are 'too advanced' for beginners IMO, but in Bikram's opinion, this is not so. a person who does not believe in bikram or practice bikram, or what have you may not agree with bikram's assessment about what is good yoga for a beginner with drop-in students and the like.
thus, from her own school and perspective, what she is teaching *is* basic asana for beginners. and, she has experience with this series (8 years worth), and she has been taught how to teach (teaching methodology--basic safety, etc--for many poses which are both in YF and in astanga series).
i know that there is a huge issue about untrained teachers teaching all sorts of crazy things in crazy ways without knowing how to teach those poses specificly--perhaps without even having practiced those postures specificly before. it does happen. and it is problematic on a number of different levels.
but i think that where i'm questioning myself on this is why i'm so dog-gone worried about it? what does it have to do with me? does it really have anything to do with me, or am i attaching some meaning to it that may not need to be attached (eg, yoga teachers get a bad rep; i could get a bad rep)? am i concerned about job security? am i concerned about student safety?
let me talk about this student safety thing. it has been a big lesson for me. before i left for NZ i was practicing at this particular studio where about 90% of the postures had some pretty major misalignments in about 95% of the students who practiced there, many of whom had been practicing yoga there for a long time.
in the past, this would have bothered me. i would have fumed about the quality of the instruction, and said things like "why don't they care about alignment? don't they know that they're injuring their students?" and well, something came to me while i was practicing at this place:
*it's not my business.*
--i do not own the studio. i have no claim or stake in how they teach things. they can do what they want. i don't have to like it, and they don't have to teach the way i think that they should. I let go.
--those students are not my students. they have a relationship with those teachers. they are going to learn any number of lessons from those teachers, and that may include the lessons of misalignment leading to injury. those students have their own lessons to learn, and they may never be my students. and that's ok. i let them go.
--these teachers and what they do has no impact or reflection on me. l know them. we are friends. we have very different philosophies about how yoga should be taught. that is ok. it's ok to be different, to disagree.
--beginner teachers need to have the space to cut their teeth, to make mistakes, to be foolish. i also need this space. in many ways, i am still a beginner. i am learning too. so, i can cut everyone some slack.
anyway, just some thoughts.
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???? for Ollie and YF teachers
