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Critique my practice?
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CathleenH
Posted 2007-04-01 12:14 AM (#81873)
Subject: Critique my practice?


’m posting this down here on the yoga therapy board because it is too particular to be of general interest on the beginner’s board.

I have been struggling to establish a home practice for over a year now. Every time I get one going it gets derailed by some physical problem – my bad knees, back pain, or, most often, a flare up of inflammatory autoimmune disease. What I really need is to work one on one with a yoga therapist. However, money is tight, and I need to prove to my husband and myself that I can stick with a routine for a significant amount of time before I spend the money for personal teaching. So I studied up and put together three sequences for myself:

The first is a regular morning sequence. I am in bad shape, so I hope that it will be mildly strengthening without being too much for me. I especially need to improve my posture. The second is a really gentle morning sequence for when I am having a flare. The third is a p.m. sequence to be done before bedtime to address insomnia.

These sequences are a little eccentric. I omit common postures like sun salutations and warriors because they seem to aggravate my flare-ups. I don’t want to go into uttanasana from a standing position because of back problems. There’s a lot of apanasana because I often feel the need to release lower back tension. I’ve gotten interested in ayurveda, and so I want to experiment with asanas that supposedly reduce vata – hence the predominance of forward bends and the lack of backbends. Etc. etc…

My question is not whether these sequences are ideal in some theoretical sense, but will they do? My concern is that, as an amateur, I might have come up with an unbalanced sequence that will create problems if I do it consistently for a few months. Any feedback is appreciated!

A.M. Sequence

cat-cow
down dog
standing forward bend
mountain
wide-legged forward bend (padottanasana)
child
bridge (depada pidam)
knees-to-chest (apanasana)
seated forward bend
open-angle forward bend (upavistha konasana)
knees-to-chest (apanasana)
press back into the floor
lever posture
knees-to-chest (apanasana)
spinal twist
savasana


Gentle A.M. Sequence

Easy pose
Cross-legged seated forward stretch
Bound angle pose
Staff pose
Seated forward bend
Knees-to-chest (apanasana)
Ankle on knee
Gentle seated twist
Savasana

PM Sequence

Cross-legged forward stretch
Staff pose
Seated forward bend
Head to knee (janu sirasana)
Knees to chest (apanasana)
Ankle on knee
Bound angle
Twist
Legs up wall
Savasana
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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-04-01 6:22 AM (#81881 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Sounds wonderful to me, if you actually do it.

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jonnie
Posted 2007-04-01 7:36 AM (#81885 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Hi Cathleen,

If you don’t want to go into uttanasana from a standing position because of back problems maybe try half uttanasana by placing your arms on a table top or chair and bending to 90 degrees.

Jonathon
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dmbones
Posted 2007-04-01 12:21 PM (#81912 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Hi Kathryn,

Welcome. Good for you, that you are exploring the causes of your body's discomfort. Your intention to figure this out and get better is the first step toward your self-healing. Thank God we have this capacity.
One small suggestion. You may want to finish your sequences with a hip opener, rather than closer. Leaving the hips open as we finish is usually much easier on us. Savasana will do that, but you may also want to try a resting half-frog on both sides before moving into savasana. Lie on your belly, knees and toes together, heels can flare apart. Turn your head to one side or the other. If you are looking to the right, for example, bring the right knee up to the right wrist crease. Gently jump the right leg out a bit so the groin lies more fully on the floor. Bring the chin gently down toward the right collarbone. Rest in posture for a minute or so, until you are at complete or near complete ease. Then gently bring hands under shoulders and push up the chest as you slide the knees back together. Turn your head to the opposite side and repeat before pushing over into savasana. Opening the hips, with something gentle like half-frog or with a simple lunge, every 3-4 poses will usually help. Best of luck and good on ya...!

Michael
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-01 12:33 PM (#81914 - in reply to #81912)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
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These look like very nice practices, though quite heavy on forward bends. It might be nice to learn some passive back bends or at least something that opens the chest like a supported supta baddhakonasana (reclining cobbler on a bolster) which is very helpful for people with inflammatory issues. Standing poses like warriors may cause problems because you build too much heat while practicing. There are ways to practice inlcuding keeping the back body at a wall or a table for warrior two that can be ways of staying cool. But generally, these are nice practices. Give yourself a deadline (practice 5 - 7 times per week for x number of weeks) and then give yourself a treat of a lesson or class. That is more or less they way I worked and I'm still at it 10 years later
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CathleenH
Posted 2007-04-08 9:10 PM (#82767 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Thanks to all of you for looking this over! I appreciate the great advice - I have already added a hip-opener and will consider the supported backbend when I have time to think about it!

I've been practicing every morning for a week now - Adding a p.m. sequence to my day was a little to amibitious but I have a nice morning routine going.
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Posted 2007-04-09 3:23 AM (#82801 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


There are no inversions in your practice.
Therefore the required release of the invertebral muscles begged for in twists (and backbends) is not delivered. Additionally you mention "aggravate" and "flare up" but without Sarvangasana how can you expect your nervous system to purr. The yin effects of both Sarvang and Sirsasan are so powerful.

In addition I do not know what some of the things are you list like "back press", "lever posture", and "ankle on knee".

I've searched and thought but I cannot determine the theme of your sequence. Some discount sequence as unimportant. Fine. But here you've asked so I'm responding. Help me out. Tell me for each of these what your thought process was. There is a why to each of these right?

If your back feels cranky then do Supta Padangusthasana with a strap which actually does release low back. If that doesn't suit you then parsva upavistha konasana, also with a strap, sitting erect only.

Sequencing, to me, in Purna Yoga, is an in-depth topic and we spend quite a bit of training discussing what makes sense. And all this is exacerbated by your knees, low back et al.



Edited by purnayoga 2007-04-09 3:23 AM
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CathleenH
Posted 2007-04-19 11:37 PM (#83800 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Hi Again Purna,

I just found your response down here. Thanks for looking at this!

“I've searched and thought but I cannot determine the theme of your sequence.”

I’m afraid that my sequences are not aiming with any accuracy toward an intelligent goal. This was my best attempt as a rank amateur armed with public-library knowledge to put together something beneficial or at least not harmful!

I chose these asanas mostly because of their ayurvedic effects according to my library book. All of the asanas I chose are reputed to reduce vata. None increase it. Most also lower pitta and none of them increase it. If you’re looking for the theme, there it is. Vata lowering asanas pasted together.

Also, I know that I can do these particular asanas without bothering my back or knees. I’m sure there are others I could do. I can’t do uttanasana, virasana, or any kind of squatting. I do kneeling poses with a pillow. Asanas that place a lot of stress on the hands (down dog) are also sometimes bothersome but have been o.k. recently.

It’s bad to stress or overuse my joints anytime I’m having a joint flare. Using even joints that aren't bothering me at that time seems to attract the inflammation to them. Strange but true.

Also, a bunch of asanas seem energetically wrong to me. I seem to be really sensitive to energy. I have wild reactions to things most people can tolerate – for example, a disastrous acupuncture experience about 7 months ago that seriously worsened my condition. The yoga effects are subtler, but I’m sure that some yoga is counterproductive for me. Trying Kundalini was a mistake. It left me feeling hung over. I found some great teachers who practice Kripalu and their evening class left me feeling pleasantly energized, but also wired at bedtime and unable to sleep. I think that warriors especially are too energizing, at least in the evening.

I have to be careful about yoga during flare-ups, not only because of the joints. Other Sjogren’s symptoms I’ve developed recently are dry, inflamed eyes and dry mouth. When I did sun salutations and a warrior on a day when I had joint inflammation, my eyes very suddenly became inflamed. I feel like when my immune system is revved-up, some yoga makes it worse, and even moves the inflammation to places it wasn’t before.

I started with the regular sequence and promptly had a flare-up. I think it’s just my regular spring flare. This is the worst time of year for me. I’ve been doing only the gentle a.m. sequence ever since. It may or may not be helpful, but at least it’s not harmful.

I know that sarvangasana would be good for me but I am just way too weak to attempt it. I’m open to any suggestions about preparing for it. I’m also reluctant to try without some guidance. Sirasana looks impossible from where I’m at.

I think the things you haven’t heard of aren’t classical yoga poses. I’ve borrowed them from various yoga books and videos. A teacher once referred to “ankle on knee” as the supine variation of pigeon.

Pressing back into the floor is just that. Lie on your back, knees bent, and press your lower, mid and upper back into the floor. It’s supposedly back strengthing. Lever posture is lying on your back, bringing your legs up to 90 degrees and lowering them slowly to the floor – an ab excecise. I don’t love these. I just threw them in there for some ab and back strengthening which I don’t know how to do otherwise.

I chose the seated twist because twists are really hard for me. I can’t do reclining twists with my shoulder anywhere near the floor. Even attempting to just feel like a strain. I end up stretching my pectorals more than anything as my hand flops toward the floor while my shoulder is up in the air.

My reasoning about the sequencing was not sophisticated. I just used the very general guidelines you see everywhere : warm-up first, standing postures, inversions, backbends, forward bends, twists, savasana. A little attention to counterposes in some cases.

I am very open to suggestions from those more knowledgeable than myself. I crave something just a little more active than purely restorative yoga, but yin slowness comes naturally to me.

Gentle A.M. Sequence

Easy pose
Cross-legged seated forward stretch
Bound angle pose
Staff pose
head-to-knee (janu sirasana)
open-angle forward bend (upavistha konasana)
Knees-to-chest (apanasana)
Ankle on knee
Gentle seated twist
Savasana


A.M. Sequence

cat-cow
down dog
mountain
wide-legged forward bend (padottanasana)
child
bridge (depada pidam)
knees-to-chest (apanasana)
head-to-knee (janu sirasana)
open-angle forward bend (upavistha konasana)
knees-to-chest (apanasana)
press back into the floor
lever posture
knees-to-chest (apanasana)
spinal twist
savasana

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Posted 2007-04-20 1:59 AM (#83806 - in reply to #83800)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Ahhh I wondered if you'd wander back in.
Okay I understand now how this has come together. Good.

If these sequences you are doing are working for you then who am I to tinker with them? I do have thoughts n them which I will share briefly.

Morning Sequence.
1. I'm not a fan of "cross-legged forward bend. Early in the practice AND early in the day the fascia in the back body is simply not ready for this sort of forward bending. Better off doing Parsva Virasana. You say you cannot do Virasana. Do it with as much height under the sitting bones as needed. Stradle a bolster. Sit on two blocks, sit on two telephone books. Twisting in Purna Yoga is not passive but active which means there must be both rooting and recoil. Space in the spine before twisting allows for safe twisting.

2. Bound Angle (baddha Konasana) and Staff pose (Dandasana) very good.

3. Janu Sirsasana; too early in this practice especially for a student with admitted low back issues. Warmer spine before such things please. Try Marjarasana, which some call Cat/Cow. On all fours it is concaving the spine on inhalation and convexing it on exhalation. Or, rounding on exhalation and backbending on inhalation.

4. Insert Adho Mukha Svanasana here. Wrist issues? Fine. Use two dumbells to grip or better yet buy a long yoga strap and a block. Wrap the strap around the block and drape the block over the top of and inside door. Close the door so the block is behind and you are in front with the rest of the strap. Then do Adho Mukha with the strap around the upper thighs. Your weight will keep the door closed and the block will keep the strap secure. This will take the weight off your wrists but still lengthen your spine.

5. Supine bent knee twists. Bend one knee, catch it with the opposite hand and draw it over to the floor on the side of the body opposite it. Do three each side.

6. Knees to chest. But do it so you are drawing them up to the chest with the power of the arms as you exhale then releasing the legs flat on the mat on the inhalation. The doing is on the exahalation and there is complete body relaxation on the inhalation. Do nine.

Finish with Supta Padangusthasana (mentioned in an earlier reply) with a strap.
Three breaths right side, three breaths left, until you've done both sides three times.
Then Savasana.

I'm tired and most prepare for bed now.
I may revisit this thread (a few times) but I'd like to know how your body takes this adjusted gentle am sequence please.



Edited by purnayoga 2007-04-20 2:00 AM
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CathleenH
Posted 2007-05-20 8:47 PM (#86854 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Hello Again.

Thank you for putting this sequence together! I’ve been doing it six days a week for several weeks now. Here are my observations:

Parsva Virasana is a wonderful discovery – very exciting. It’s both powerful and very beneficial to me. I have to use the equivalent of almost three blocks to get into it without pain, but it seems to work for me all the same.

Here’s a story about it. You can believe it or not. I don’t even tell most people about such wild stuff, but hey -- this is cyberspace. What have I got to lose?... My annual spring flare has been dragging on and on, with mini flares and remissions. I was feeling pretty good one day and I wanted to stretch. I really wanted to do cobra after all the forward bending I had been doing for so long. So I pushed up into a nice cobra and almost instantaneously my eyes began to smart and itch wildly. This kind of rapid-onset flare has happened to me a few times in the past 7 months after an acupuncture treatment gone awry. Within minutes, my eyes were completely red, going dry, and my eyelids were itching, swelling and pulsing. I had just started your sequence and had noticed that parsva virasana seemed to alleviate some of my symptoms. So I decided to try countering asana with asana. I did about an hour and a half of yoga, with some forward bending, but mostly parsva virasana over and over, which immediately helped. I was able to almost entirely stop the flare in its tracks, and had only the mildest residual dryness.

I’d describe the energy of cobra as fast and electric, moving upwards towards the face and eyes (I also experience a pressure in the sinuses), while the energy of parsva virasana is like a diffuse warmth that moves downwards through the legs. I’d be interested to know if that is just my completely subjective experience or if anyone else would describe it that way.

Bound angle is the only part of the sequence that I’ve decided is not working. I was already having doubts about it when I was doing my own sequence. My condition flares at night. I wake up achy in the morning, often with a dry mouth or gritty eyes. Even without asanas, I feel better as the morning progresses. Doing asanas seems to hasten the improvement. But I feel like bound angle sets things back, just minutely. Is the energy too much like the energy of sleep? The effect is less pronounced when doing it dynamically, but even then it doesn’t seem to add anything. I recently stopped doing it and the sequences seems to flow so much better, as if the warm energy is sustained rather than suddenly halted.

Staff, cat-cow and down-dog are going fine.

I think the supine twists were a great idea on your part. I never would have chosen them myself because I don’t like what is difficult to do. I think all this twisting has been good for me.

It took me a while to figure out dynamic knees to chest. I didn’t realize at first that it’s supposed to be a little bit of an ab exercise as you lower the legs down slowly, isn’t it?

I don’t love Supta Padangusthasana in itself. It seems a little unwieldy and harder to know when your form is correct that with a seated forward bend. But it works well in this sequence after two other supine poses.

Sometimes I wish there were a hip-opener. Depends on the day.

Savasana is going very, very badly indeed, as is mental focus in general. Listening to a recorded meditation in savasana helps me focus on something other than my job, but I haven’t got any good ones. I suppose that focus can’t really be taught. It’s something you just have to do.

There has been one great improvement in my health during this time period, and I have to at least entertain the hypothesis that the practice has something to do with it. One of the symptoms of this disease was an acute photosensitive condition that made normal life pretty much impossible. It was brought mostly under control by 10 months of anti-malarials. Then the acupuncture treatment I mentioned brought it raging back as bad as before. It was getting better ever so gradually when I started this, but it was quite unstable, with unpredictable flares. Since I started this practice, it has gotten rapidly and steadily better to the point that I’ve almost completely recovered. Unfortunately, I can’t know for sure if the two things were connected. I also started treatment for a severe vitamin D deficiency at just the same time, so that might also have helped. Autoimmune disease is also maddeningly variable, so maybe it was just taking its course. If it flares up again while I’m still practicing and taking vitamin D, then I’ll know that the improvement wasn’t due to either of those things. But it’s interesting to consider!

Experiencing the energy of parsva virasana assures me that I’m on the right track about the potential of some asanas to improve my health.

Thank you again for taking the time to put this sequence together. Your advice has been very helpful.
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Nick
Posted 2007-05-21 1:28 PM (#86920 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Cathleen,
By autoimmune inflammatory disease, do you mean rheumatoid arthritis? Ive never heard of what you said.
Nick
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Posted 2007-05-21 3:47 PM (#86940 - in reply to #86854)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


CathleenH - 2007-05-20 5:47 PM

Thank you for putting this sequence together! I’ve been doing it six days a week for several weeks now. Here are my observations:
You are welcome. Some days the sun even shines on a pompus, arrogant, self-absorbed, egomaniacs rear end like mine.

Parsva Virasana is a wonderful discovery – very exciting. It’s both powerful and very beneficial to me. I have to use the equivalent of almost three blocks to get into it without pain, but it seems to work for me all the same.
Where is the pain in it? Perhaps we can work with that a bit more. But yes taking whatever height is needed is so wonderful. I love to see a student with four foam pads because I know they've let go of something to do that (Ego?).

I’d describe the energy of cobra as fast and electric, moving upwards towards the face and eyes (I also experience a pressure in the sinuses), while the energy of parsva virasana is like a diffuse warmth that moves downwards through the legs. I’d be interested to know if that is just my completely subjective experience or if anyone else would describe it that way.
Well Bhujangasana is a backbend and Parsva Virasna is a twist. They are very different in terms of efficacy. Many, many students over do in "Cobra" and come up way to high, throw their heads back to a point out of integrity with the rest of the spine, and compress their lumbar spine. So the entire pose becomes one pinchy cobra. On the other hand, when the neck is IN integrity with the spine (gazing forward perhaps) AND the sacrum is moved toward the heels WHILE the bottom of the belly is drawn up toward the heart then it can be a very wonderful pose. But yes it is very different feeling than Parsva Virasana.

Bound angle is the only part of the sequence that I’ve decided is not working. I was already having doubts about it when I was doing my own sequence. My condition flares at night. I wake up achy in the morning, often with a dry mouth or gritty eyes. Even without asanas, I feel better as the morning progresses. Doing asanas seems to hasten the improvement. But I feel like bound angle sets things back, just minutely. Is the energy too much like the energy of sleep? The effect is less pronounced when doing it dynamically, but even then it doesn’t seem to add anything. I recently stopped doing it and the sequences seems to flow so much better, as if the warm energy is sustained rather than suddenly halted.
That is fine and sounds authentic (though I cannot see you IN the pose.It is feeling too sleepy? Hmm. It is one of the 12 sacred asanas as it is fully sealed (when jalandhara bandha is applied and the hands encase the toes. It is a very quiet, calming opening of the groins. What will you do for groins in its place??

I think the supine twists were a great idea on your part. I never would have chosen them myself because I don’t like what is difficult to do. I think all this twisting has been good for me.
Now you can do the movement while keeping the shoulder on the floor rather than bringing the knee all the way to the floor. Root the opposite shoulder as you do the pose and go 2" less then you believe you are able. As you do the movement, "reach" the thigh bone out of the pelvis as you twist.

It took me a while to figure out dynamic knees to chest. I didn’t realize at first that it’s supposed to be a little bit of an ab exercise as you lower the legs down slowly, isn’t it?
The abs of course are used however they are not the focus of the movement at all. By design the pose is NOT to use the abdominals. If you do it is okay but do not place the efforting there. You only need to lower the leg mindfully. Slowly is not required as the action is already complete and you are now in transition to the other side. But it is really not significant one way or the other. If you get ab work lowering, fine. If you do not, fine.

I don’t love Supta Padangusthasana in itself. It seems a little unwieldy and harder to know when your form is correct that with a seated forward bend. But it works well in this sequence after two other supine poses.
You grow to relish it. I did. Once instructed in it then it is easier to find it on your own properly. It is a pose for safety of the lower back AND opening in the hamstrings. Seated forward bending is not. Both valid poses when the proper actions and alignments are present.

Sometimes I wish there were a hip-opener. Depends on the day.
Parsve Supta Padangusthasana and Parivrrta Supta Padnagusthasana. There are four others here but it's too much for now.

Savasana is going very, very badly indeed, as is mental focus in general. Listening to a recorded meditation in savasana helps me focus on something other than my job, but I haven’t got any good ones. I suppose that focus can’t really be taught. It’s something you just have to do.
Savasana is the cherry on top of the practice. It is what you are working toward. And you've earned the true rest contained within it. Remember that it is not a passive pose. It continues to drop into earth with each exhalation. Some simple breath awareness will take your mind where it needs to be. But it is also okay to struggle in the pose. Make sure you are not adding to aggitation with coffee and so forth. Many of us cannot rest properly.


Edited by purnayoga 2007-05-21 3:50 PM
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Orbilia
Posted 2007-05-22 6:12 AM (#86965 - in reply to #86940)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


I sometimes find that either doing more asanas before savasana or resting in reverse corpse pose (face down) will help overcome a bad case of monkey-mind. As advised, breath focus is also highly beneficial.

Fee


Savasana is going very, very badly indeed, as is mental focus in general. Listening to a recorded meditation in savasana helps me focus on something other than my job, but I haven’t got any good ones. I suppose that focus can’t really be taught. It’s something you just have to do.
Savasana is the cherry on top of the practice. It is what you are working toward. And you've earned the true rest contained within it. Remember that it is not a passive pose. It continues to drop into earth with each exhalation. Some simple breath awareness will take your mind where it needs to be. But it is also okay to struggle in the pose. Make sure you are not adding to aggitation with coffee and so forth. Many of us cannot rest properly.
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Posted 2007-06-21 4:16 PM (#89899 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


I think she only checks in once a month here Fee.
I have not tried a face down Savasana. Have not heard thaat. Perhaps I will experiment to see how it feels.
I think for those with low back issues it would aggravate such a condition, just as sleeping on the belly would. But on a massage table with a face craddle and a bolster under the front ankles...magic.
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Orbilia
Posted 2007-06-22 11:34 AM (#89935 - in reply to #89899)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


Funnily enough, I find ordinary corpse pose more aggravating for my lower back than being reversed though the issues have dimished over time as I've learnt how to extend my tailbone toward my heels, so flattening the lumbar curve (I'm slightly sway backed). The 'trick' is to rest your face on the forehead, nose tip, and chin, adjusting until the neck feels neutral. Using blocks under the shoulders can assist if jammed under corner-first.

Reverse corpse pose is great if you have a stinking cold as the gunk doesn't run down into your ears.

Fee

Edited by Orbilia 2007-06-22 11:37 AM
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jonnie
Posted 2007-06-23 1:20 PM (#89990 - in reply to #81873)
Subject: RE: Critique my practice?


On a workshop last year with Donna Farhi, we practised reversed savasana.

I'll have to refer to my notes, though I remember that there was mention of a reflex (whose name I forget) that causes tension in muscles that have direct contact with the ground.

So the theory with reverse savasana is that the back of the body will never be truely relaxed because of it's ground contact, so occassionally alternate for full body relaxtion.

Personally, I'm not to sure, though who knows?

Jonathon
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