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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | The March 2007 issue of Yoga Journal (pg.20) provides us with the following mantra for lovemaking: Om kama pujitayei namah roughly meaning "Om I bow to prayer as carnal love" or something like that. The idea is that if one can see the Divine in one's partner, then lovemaking is communion with god. There are a variety of similar things to be found in religious literature, for example: the yogi who reaches a state in which Shiva makes love to him; the Yabyum image; Krishna and the Gopis (as YJ mentions); and for that matter the notion of Christ with the church as his bride. And of course, that particular thread of Tantra that gets so much press in the West. On the other hand, my partner and I would certainly have a hard time chanting when other matters are at hand ... is lovemaking an intellectual activity? ...bg
Edited by Bay Guy 2007-01-28 10:08 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| Interesting - somewhat related but not yoga (I am fascinated by how these things tend to clump together) I heard the rabbi guy that does the relationship show on TLC being interviewed on the radio today. He says the commandment to not lust after someone else's wife suggests strongly that a man SHOULD lust after his own wife. A nice, healthy attitude, IMHO  As for myself personally, not to reveal too much, but mantras are not what I want to hear at that particular time. Sweet nothings perhaps, or something non-verbal  |
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| intellectual?
I think considering things in this fashion will fragment the experience of being with all parts that you have to use.
Lovemaking is certainly a form of communication, with or without words. I prefer it to be a very physical form of communication without a lot of chatter, of course with four children sleeping in nearby rooms, it became a much more quiet activity years ago.
For folks that speak that lingo as a first language, they may feel comfortable with those mantras, not me.
The closest I get to that is simply a quiet Om, but without the m. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| SCT - something to look forward to when the kids move out - heartfelt OM's without the m |
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| You know, it's interesting you posted this thread- I was wondering how to open up the subject without causing a lot of rifts... As I've mentioned in several places, I am currently reading Mark Whitwell's book Yoga of Heart. I took a workshop with him this fall and was just blown away by him.
His premise (now, I'm only halfway through the book) is that sexuality is an integral part of yoga.
He talks of the social separation of intimate sex and religion as being completely misguided- and, ultimately, sets the religious practioner (priest, monk, devout, etc) up for aberration. That, in fact, by denying our sexual side, we are effectively moving away from God than towards God. That the two forces of male/female are in each of us and our sexuality is as natural as breathing. It's a lot of book to shorten into a few sentences...
basically, there are male/female aspects known throughout time- yin/yang, sun/moon, shiva/shakti, etc.. and to deny this is to deny our natural state. And in doing so, we are robbing ourselves of the intimate connections needed.
He says a lot of potentially controversial things- he doesn't believe in the Brahmin separation of men and women,..... nor does he subscribe to society's feeling that men should only be "men"- penetrating, forceful, direct- and that women should only be "women" - receiving, nurturing, soft. But that we should embrace that other side of us.. and through physical union, you can attain that moment when you are completely male and female.. But he doesn't approach this in a controversial way- I would imagine you would have to be pretty open minded to be open to his ideas. I'm interested to see what his take is on Brahamacharya... don't know if it's in this book yet or not... Because he definitely does not believe that celibacy or restraint of sexual energy is healthy or recommended.
Here's a link to his website.. it's fascinating.. I've never met someone with such a powerful, yet humble presence.
www.heartofyoga.com
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| YJ makes me a bit batty. but, sex sells.
i assume, btw, that kama mentioned in the mantra is the god of sex Kama, whose consort is Rati.
typically, these mantras are used to help create a healthy, happy marriage or to pray that one finds a suitable partner for marriage. i have not seen instances where it was used in lovemaking, unless for specific tantric practices which are far to advanced for those of us who aren't in specific tantric training (not that we can't apply tantric principles to our marriages or love lives, but the construct of 'tantric sex' in the ritualized context of tantric religious/spiritual practices is an advanced process).
in my favorite dipiction of chinnamasta, she dances headless on a burning funeral pyre on which kama and rati are copulating. blood spruts from her neck into the mouths of her attendants--young women--while one young woman holds a bowl beneath the severed head, catching the blood there. this image depicts the connection between sex, death, and blood mysteries (menses etc) of women. i find it incredibly powerful.
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| joscmt - 2007-01-29 10:23 AM
You know, it's interesting you posted this thread- I was wondering how to open up the subject without causing a lot of rifts...
I've seen very few topics that weren't handled in an adult manner on this site, even if that adult manner degressed into childlike play.
As I've mentioned in several places, I am currently reading Mark Whitwell's book Yoga of Heart. I took a workshop with him this fall and was just blown away by him.
His premise (now, I'm only halfway through the book) is that sexuality is an integral part of yoga.
Interesting, I'll have to give it a look. I've never felt completely comfortable with the people who preach abstinence at all costs, nor the people who sleep with anything that moves. Guess I'm somewhere in the happy medium. |
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| I have to say that I am somewhere in that happy medium as well. I've never been a prude.. but I've always been judicious (sp?) and cautious with who I've shared my, uh, time  with.. |
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| GJ- let me know if you check out the site and what you think... I'm curious to see someone else's take on this |
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| It would only be an Unfortunate if a popular (at least in consumption) magazine such as YJ gives out mantra for Love Making. The ideas of lovemaking and Yoga are found together in literature in positive and negative both ways. But, a true Yogic Perspective is summarized as follows:
The path of Yoga has ONLY one final aim in mind: Moksha or spiritual liberation. All other aims such as health, wealth, success in work, soiciety, etc. which can be laudable in some and ifferent ways are only but steps on the way.
Now, Moksha is possible when one goes beyond all physical and mental boundaries, which definitely includes Sex. In fact, in the real pursuit of Moksha, that is when one has already crossed the boundaries of material achievement and sensual enjoyments, that is most of the karma is getting exhausted, Sex is an obstacle. That is where the real brahmacharya starts. All others are practice of abstinence, etc.
ON the path ot achieving a real brahmacharya, all karma must be exhausted in a proper way. This proper way is called Dharma or proper conduct. As far as SEx is concerned, most of us have that karma, and that does result in a resonable Lust. That does not mean one should increase the lust. It means one shoud satis fy that lust in a proper way. This also includes giving proper satisfaction to the partner to satisfy her/his lust/karma.
To practice this Dharma, one uses mantra or a devotional way of invocation during Sexual act.
The same logic applies to aquiriing wealth and name/fame.
Name/fame, Wealth/Money, and Sex are the biggest obstacles to a spiritual aspirant. One who can not cross them easily shouldl perform Karma with proper dharma, and with devotion. And, eventually, one should reach the full abstinence.
Otherwise, lust and more lust produces more of it. This is depicted in most of the Yoga magazines of the WEst and unfortunately of the East nowadays.
Peace |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Satyam didn't care for this thread very much. He made his funny little chuckle and said something to the effect like, "Mantra's are pure and you cannot contaminate them with sex", there was no such thing. Then I asked, "Where does all this stuff come from"..his comment was "somebody is BS'ing and it is probably about $$$". |
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| I think Satyam's right. I'm just waiting from the YJ article on Money Mantras. |
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| GreenJello - 2007-02-02 2:04 PM
I think Satyam's right. I'm just waiting from the YJ article on Money Mantras.
retirement, 401K, Pension, Bingo
breathe
repeat
OH I forgot Lottery
Edited by SCThornley 2007-02-02 2:30 PM
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| i do agree that this selling of a mantra is crass though, but i disagree that 'sex' is dirty and would 'muddy' a 'pure' mantra. i believe that sex--in appropriate uses and contexts--is a holy process of unity, self knowledge, etc, etc, etc.
this mantra--once i looked it up and studied it more--is most commonly used to build the marital relationship, to create a harmonious relationship with a healthy sex life, or to prepare one to enter into a marriage partnership. in some instances it's used to "draw the right partner to you"--but i usually see that language as precipitating the previous concept--to prepare one to enter into a marriage partnership.
as for the mantras related to "money"--a number of mantras related to Sri Sri, or Lakshmi are commonly used to bring prosperity and wisdom. but, i have found that not all people see "prosperity" in the same way. while i likely have far less income than many of you, i feel that i am a very wealthy woman, living in a place of abundance. i believe that i am truly blessed by Lakshmi. I have a little card with a picture of her and i chant a mala of her mantra once a week. I want the real prosperity of spirit, and i believe that i am recieving it.
but i doubt that a dissertation on the meanings of prosperity and their connections to Lakshmi or Sri Sri are going to sell in yoga journal so much as "here's a mantra for building wealth!" |
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| zoebird - 2007-02-02 2:51 PM
i do agree that this selling of a mantra is crass though, but i disagree that 'sex' is dirty and would 'muddy' a 'pure' mantra. i believe that sex--in appropriate uses and contexts--is a holy process of unity, self knowledge, etc, etc, etc.
this mantra--once i looked it up and studied it more--is most commonly used to build the marital relationship, to create a harmonious relationship with a healthy sex life, or to prepare one to enter into a marriage partnership. in some instances it's used to "draw the right partner to you"--but i usually see that language as precipitating the previous concept--to prepare one to enter into a marriage partnership.
as for the mantras related to "money"--a number of mantras related to Sri Sri, or Lakshmi are commonly used to bring prosperity and wisdom. but, i have found that not all people see "prosperity" in the same way. while i likely have far less income than many of you, i feel that i am a very wealthy woman, living in a place of abundance. i believe that i am truly blessed by Lakshmi. I have a little card with a picture of her and i chant a mala of her mantra once a week. I want the real prosperity of spirit, and i believe that i am recieving it.
but i doubt that a dissertation on the meanings of prosperity and their connections to Lakshmi or Sri Sri are going to sell in yoga journal so much as "here's a mantra for building wealth!"
darlign zb: i agree with you about marital relationship improvement, etc. but, i could not figure out how this s-mantra would lead to self-knowledge. |
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| i see all experiences and spiritual practices as the process of gaining self knowledge. thus, mantras, sex, and chicken soup, are all aspects of gaining self knowledge. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | I guess that I can't see how sex could muddy up a mantra that was intended for sex, although I can certainly see how sex would muddy up a Siva Chant...  .. bg |
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| Yoga supposedly improves sex because of all that flexibility gained i guess |
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| carla_austen3 - 2007-02-05 6:30 PM
Yoga supposedly improves sex because of all that flexibility gained i guess
Those are only value additions.. which are distractions when you are going the journey.. ultimately to achive Samadhi... |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-02-02 10:04 AM Name/fame, Wealth/Money, and Sex are the biggest obstacles to a spiritual aspirant. One who can not cross them easily shouldl perform Karma with proper dharma, and with devotion. And, eventually, one should reach the full abstinence. This is such a hard concept to understand, let alone follow. The way I see it, the object of one's ultimate pursuit (i.e. freedom from the attachments of name/fame, wealth/money and sex) come from a full embracing of the spiritual aspects of those very same sense desires. I know I'm describing it in a contradictory way, and certainly not skillfully, but somehow I see the space within this contradiction and that's how it makes sense to me. Those three obstacles are all exactly what we need to be aspiring toward in order to be free of the hold they have on us. Yes, "aspiration" is a much better word that the one I used before, "pursuit", even though essentially they mean the same thing. It's that tiny nuance of difference between those two terms that holds the understanding (for me, at least) of how to strive for something with the intent of achieving abstinence from it. Maybe it's the perspective of BEING the characteristic of those three obstacles, as opposed to HAVING them. For example, thinking about BEING abundant in one's self translates to HAVING wealth (which I believe will, in turn, produce both material and spiritual abundance and wealth). Yet the act of WANTING to have wealth/abundance is exactly what will keep you from going along that path. I don't know if I'm making any sense here to anyone other than myself. But then again, does that even matter?  As I said at the beginning, actually doing this in life is so very hard. But I think I'm starting to get how abstinence plays into the picture of it all. In the sacred text study classes I attend, we talk of still partaking in the senses while not being bound by them for happiness and enjoyment. That, for me, is the space within the contradiction of instructions that makes sense. Thank you, Neel, I always enjoy reading your comments and perspectives here. So totally "on point". Namaste. |
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| I got what you were trying to say OM- and Neel, thanks for your comment too.. I got that one too. I think what the key here is the intent with which we go into these actions. If I say that my happiness is based soley on if I have enough sex, can buy what I want... then I am now basing my happiness on things outside of myself. What happens when those things are gone? Is my happiness gone too? Probably. But to be happy within my own skin with my own self... and know that these things are just "things", but that I could be happy just as easily without, that's setting an entirely different intention to my actions. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I have to say this. That person who writes that column for YJ...is speaking from a "Western" perspective. He's taken the mantras and added his own version of whatever into it and calling it "Healing & Shakti Mantras". His interpretations really scares me. Having that said...I once attended a week long workshop with a famous Indian Guru (name withheld). Who talked about Mantras and how people went around spouting them off without proper pronounciation and with a basic lack of understanding. He told us that he had to work with a girl who was chanting the Gaayatri Mantra for several years, then developed severe throat problems to the point where she almost lost her voice. After working with this girl for several months, he discovered her habit of listening and chanting along to a Gaayatri Mantra tape in her car every day while on her way to work. After hearing this "western" voice chanting on the tape, he realized she was chanting it incorrectly. So, he told her to STOP chanting that mantra and get rid of the tape. Lo, and behold her problems eventually cleared up and she got better. Interesting isn't it??
Edited by Cyndi 2007-02-06 9:40 AM
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| Cyndi - 2007-02-06 9:39 AM
I have to say this. That person who writes that column for YJ...is speaking from a "Western" perspective. He's taken the mantras and added his own version of whatever into it and calling it "Healing & Shakti Mantras". His interpretations really scares me. Having that said...I once attended a week long workshop with a famous Indian Guru (name withheld). Who talked about Mantras and how people went around spouting them off without proper pronounciation and with a basic lack of understanding. He told us that he had to work with a girl who was chanting the Gaayatri Mantra for several years, then developed severe throat problems to the point where she almost lost her voice. After working with this girl for several months, he discovered her habit of listening and chanting along to a Gaayatri Mantra tape in her car every day while on her way to work. After hearing this "western" voice chanting on the tape, he realized she was chanting it incorrectly. So, he told her to STOP chanting that mantra and get rid of the tape. Lo, and behold her problems eventually cleared up and she got better. Interesting isn't it??
It is for this very type of reason why I don't do any of this, except the occasional 'OM'.
If you do something you don't know about, it's simply foolish. |
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| I like to read about the mantras in YJ..but I never try them out because of te pronunciation thing. When I hear someone chant (who knows how to chant- like Neel's CD, for example), I can hear the words, but I can't say I would have pronounced them like that-- me, not having that "eastern" background. I'll try it when I'm in a class that chants, though.. just not on my own.. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Don't get me wrong here....I chant mantra's all the time...I just learned how to do it properly. There are several Tibetan Buddhist Chants that I learned from my guru that can only be passed down from the Guru to Student. If I didn't get it that way, I would of never known about them, much less chanted them. I didn't post that information to scare anyone away from chanting, I think its good for yoga aspirants to chant mantras. We are suppose to pick the mantra of our choice and chant it every day. It is called Japa, repetition of mantra or the name of God. I just don't like it when certain individuals add their stupid deluded BS to go along with them in the hopes of 'gaining' something...especially where sex and lovemaking is concerned. For the record, anything sexual is considered a 'secret'. It should not be exploited, otherwise it is simply SEX and nothing more than that. |
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Mantra for lovemaking
