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| What the heck is Christian Yoga ??? tis nothing but an attempt to snatch yoga from its origins.
Yoga is not secularised in America but rather baptised. "Shallom" is used inplace of "Om"  This person Beth Shaw of "Yogafit" has dropped, what she feels is "oming" completely & even changed the Sanskrit names of asanas.  But is this newly minted "Christian Yoga " really Yoga ??? Since this question, i feel, couldn't be answered any better than by Professor Subhash Tiwari of Hindu University of America, I copy-pasted his article on the subject posted on some other website (also to save you folks the trouble of going all the way to that website to read it) 
Here's what the professor has to say :
The simple, immutable fact is that yoga originated from the Vedic or Hindu culture. Its techniques were not adopted by Hinduism, but originated from it. These facts need to be unequivocally stated in light of some of the things being written to the contrary by yoga teachers. The effort to separate yoga from Hinduism must be challenged because it runs counter to the fundamental principles upon which yoga itself is premised, the yamas (restraints) and niyamas (observances). These ethical tenets and religious practices are the first two limbs of the eight-limbed ashtanga yoga system which also includes asana (postures), pranayama (breath control), pratyahara (sense withdrawal), dharana (concentration), dhyana (meditation) and samadhi (contemplation/Self Realization). Efforts to separate yoga from its spiritual center reveal ignorance of the goal of yoga.
Such efforts point to a concerted, long-term plan to deny yoga its origin. This effort to extricate yoga from its Hindu mold and cast it under another name is far from innocent. It is reminiscent of the pattern evident throughout the long history and dynamics of colonizing powers. Firstly, the physical geography of a people was colonized, then their mental arena. Now we are witnessing the next phase, the encroachment on the spiritual territory of Hinduism which began in the last few decades. Some of the agents behind "Christian Yoga " also draw from the same treasure chest which supports the conversion movements of Hindus and other sacred cultures.
In 1989, Pope Benedict, then Cardinal Ratzinger, issued a scathing report against yoga and warned Catholics of "dangers and errors " from "non-Christian forms of meditation." He stated, "The Hindu concept of absorbing of the human self into the divine self is never possible, not even in the highest states of grace." In 2003, the Vatican issued a more conciliatory directive permitting Catholics to engage in the "New Age " in general and yoga specifically, but still warning against its spiritual and meditation practices. "I want to say simply that the New Age presents itself as a false utopia in answer to the profound thirst for happiness in the human heart. New Age is a misleading answer to the oldest hopes of man, " said Cardinal Paul Poupard. This document gives its blessings for Catholics to practice yoga, but not as a spiritual discipline!
Today, however, we are witnessing an initiative toward yoga from ordinary Christians whose positive physical, mental and spiritual heath and well being experienced as a result of "engaging " yoga cannot be denied or ignored. This 5,000-year-old system is perhaps the best known, most accessible and cost effective health and beauty program around. Yoga is also much more, as it was intended by the Vedic seers as an instrument which can lead one to apprehend the Absolute, Ultimate Reality, called the Brahman Reality, or God. If this attempt to co-opt yoga into their own tradition continues, in several decades of incessantly spinning the untruth as truth through re-labelings such as "Christian yoga" who will know that yoga is or was part of Hindu culture ???
The giant tree of yoga whose limbs reach high up into the different atmospheres, and whose branches stretch across the wide river offering its protection to so many, cannot deny that its roots are located in a specific place , Hinduism. Seeking shelter under its vast umbrella does not entitle you to change the tree; instead, learn from its unselfish display of love and generosity.
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| Hi Yuvrajjj,
An interesting article. Thanks for posting it.
I cant speak for others but I have never personally had a challenge combining my Christian beliefs with either my physical, mental or spiritual practise of yoga or my study of Buddhism.
Firstly, I believe it is useful to separate the teaching's of Jesus (Christianity) from the teaching's of the church (churchianity). It must be remembered that Jesus was one of the world's greatest mystics and the people who later codified and organised his teachings were not.
Five hundred years before the birth of Jesus, the Buddha said "Let man overcome anger by love...hatred does not cease by hatred at any time; hatred ceases by love-this is an old rule".
To quote Jesus, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you...Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
The Buddha also said "You must so adjust your heart so you long for the welfare of all beings, including the happiness of your enemies...Among men who hate us, let us dwell free from hatred...With pure thoughts and fullness of love, I will do towards others as I would do for myself".
The similarity of these teachings is incredible, though some may still choose to see Buddhism and Christianity differently. For me, I see the same message which is love. Love is Bakti and Bakti is one of the highest teachings of yoga. I believe that Jesus is a wonderful example of Bakti yoga.
I am sure that in her own way, Beth Shaw believes that by churchifying yoga she is honouring her understanding of living a true Christian lifestyle, and though I find her actions misguided I will continue to love her all the same.
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-28 1:36 AM
What the heck is Christian Yoga ??? tis nothing but an attempt to snatch yoga from its origins.
Yoga is not secularised in America but rather baptised. "Shallom" is used inplace of "Om" This person Beth Shaw of "Yogafit" has dropped, what she feels is "oming" completely & even changed the Sanskrit names of asanas. But is this newly minted "Christian Yoga " really Yoga ??? Since this question, i feel, couldn't be answered any better than by Professor Subhash Tiwari of Hindu University of America, I copy-pasted his article on the subject posted on some other website (also to save you folks the trouble of going all the way to that website to read it )
Here's what the professor has to say :
The simple, immutable fact is that yoga originated from the Vedic or Hindu culture. Its techniques were not adopted by Hinduism, but originated from it. These facts need to be unequivocally stated in light of some of the things being written to the contrary by yoga teachers. The effort to separate yoga from Hinduism must be challenged because it runs counter to the fundamental principles upon which yoga itself is premised, the yamas (restraints ) and niyamas (observances ). These ethical tenets and religious practices are the first two limbs of the eight-limbed ashtanga yoga system which also includes asana (postures ), pranayama (breath control ), pratyahara (sense withdrawal ), dharana (concentration ), dhyana (meditation ) and samadhi (contemplation/Self Realization ). Efforts to separate yoga from its spiritual center reveal ignorance of the goal of yoga.
Such efforts point to a concerted, long-term plan to deny yoga its origin. This effort to extricate yoga from its Hindu mold and cast it under another name is far from innocent. It is reminiscent of the pattern evident throughout the long history and dynamics of colonizing powers. Firstly, the physical geography of a people was colonized, then their mental arena. Now we are witnessing the next phase, the encroachment on the spiritual territory of Hinduism which began in the last few decades. Some of the agents behind "Christian Yoga " also draw from the same treasure chest which supports the conversion movements of Hindus and other sacred cultures.
In 1989, Pope Benedict, then Cardinal Ratzinger, issued a scathing report against yoga and warned Catholics of "dangers and errors " from "non-Christian forms of meditation." He stated, "The Hindu concept of absorbing of the human self into the divine self is never possible, not even in the highest states of grace." In 2003, the Vatican issued a more conciliatory directive permitting Catholics to engage in the "New Age " in general and yoga specifically, but still warning against its spiritual and meditation practices. "I want to say simply that the New Age presents itself as a false utopia in answer to the profound thirst for happiness in the human heart. New Age is a misleading answer to the oldest hopes of man, " said Cardinal Paul Poupard. This document gives its blessings for Catholics to practice yoga, but not as a spiritual discipline!
Today, however, we are witnessing an initiative toward yoga from ordinary Christians whose positive physical, mental and spiritual heath and well being experienced as a result of "engaging " yoga cannot be denied or ignored. This 5,000-year-old system is perhaps the best known, most accessible and cost effective health and beauty program around. Yoga is also much more, as it was intended by the Vedic seers as an instrument which can lead one to apprehend the Absolute, Ultimate Reality, called the Brahman Reality, or God. If this attempt to co-opt yoga into their own tradition continues, in several decades of incessantly spinning the untruth as truth through re-labelings such as "Christian yoga" who will know that yoga is or was part of Hindu culture ???
The giant tree of yoga whose limbs reach high up into the different atmospheres, and whose branches stretch across the wide river offering its protection to so many, cannot deny that its roots are located in a specific place , Hinduism. Seeking shelter under its vast umbrella does not entitle you to change the tree; instead, learn from its unselfish display of love and generosity.
Dear Y: Thanks for this article. While there is a lot of truth in the article, there is also a more important problem which Hindus and Indians have created for themselves. And, that is worse than others snatching origin from them. The problem can be stated very simply:
The Hindus and Indians are NOT holding to their origin. I mean they are not doing Yoga Practice. I invite all readers of this post including the writer of the post and the writer of that article to do the following:
- Look around themselves and write down the names of all Hindus whom they are associated with.
- Then write against each name whether they practice Yoga.
- Then do the same with Non Hindus.
- Then compare.
You will be surprised. I am ashamed to state that there are more nonHindus in my classes than Hindus. |
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| Kulkarni Babu, I'm sorry but it seems ONCE AGAIN your cogitations have taken a wrong road and led you to a wrong conclusion, would you please explain what has the no. of Hindus practising yoga gotta do with Americanisation / Christianisation of Yoga ??? |
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| I would like to say that neither Hinduism and yoga have anything to do with religion. Hinduism is a way of life rather than a religion, and yoga is also a way of life if you like.
Bringing christianity into it is making it religious. I think this excludes, whereas traditional yoga includes.
Can you post a link to the article?
Edited by DownwardDog 2006-10-29 6:05 AM
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-29 12:41 AM
Kulkarni Babu, I'm sorry but it seems ONCE AGAIN your cogitations have taken a wrong road and led you to a wrong conclusion, would you please explain what has the no. of Hindus practising yoga gotta do with Americanisation / Christianisation of Yoga ???
Darling Yuvraj: This is a discussion bulletin board. I am not leading to any conclusion. If you disagree with my conclusion, we need to discuss it. I do not the meaning of the word 'cogitations'. Please let me know wha that means. To answer your next question:
- I already agreed with you that a NonHindu should not do activities which amount cutting relationship of Yoga with it an age old Hindu History or whatever you mean. It is same with writing a partial history in the favor of one society.
- But, what I am saying is: Yoga History will sustain only as much as it is supported by practice. For example, when one says that Old Vedic Scholars had photographic memory and they recited hundreds of books without errors, and then we have no single example to show it. Then, the system or even the statements become weaker, and fall apart. Then, another party who can show memorization can modify that history. And, society goes by what they see, not by what they hear only.
- What I am saying is: The best way to preserve that history, or to support the statements made by the writer is to support it by practice.
Now, let me know what you have to say on what I wrote above.
Peace,
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| And, darling Yuvaraj: You mentioned 'ONCE AGAIN' in capitals. I hope you are refering to a thread on Asthma. Why not you go there and complete our discussion there? Please. Once again, please. |
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| as one raised Christian, I'd like to believe that I practice Yoga in each breath of my life.
One thing that my studies and practices have led me to 'believe' is that no matter what the roots of any philosophy, span of its' understanding, or depth of it comprehension, NONE have put 'GOD' in our grasp as individuals [my opinion here, just my opinion]
I can not consider any relabeling of Yoga as authentic.
I, also, can no longer accept any dogma. My relationship with God is as an individual, and I've come to believe that everyone else's relationship with God is also that way and your relationship is different than my relationship and that's good.
God is great, God is good, let us thank God for our food, AMEN.
AND AND AND
without Yoga, my relationship with God would be much more shallow than I experience today, as I look back in my younger years.
I thank all those that came before me whom have kept the practice of Yoga alive.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-10-29 9:06 AM
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| Now just coz someone who’s not using something he / she invented doesn’t entitles anyone else, after finding a good use for it , start calling it his / her own, such actions can never be justified. History of Yoga is well talked about everywhere in the world and it would always be associated with India as the only earliest record of yoga is the stone seals that were excavated from the Indus valley so modification of history here is not possible. But what western historians (who could never concede that any civilization is superior to theirs) could least do is to try to disassociate Hinduism from yoga by concluding that stone age Shaman’s first began this strange practice or that yoga originated from the place what we NOW call India , as if the present day Hindus have as much to do with yoga as the Iraqis have anything to do with Sumerians. India’s contribution to mathematics & astrology is long forgotten and yoga will meet the same fate. Americans are doing exactly what the Arabian invaders did then (of course without invading). There is no such things as Arabian Mathematics, any major book on mathematics written by Arabians is nothing but translation of Indian books on maths written in Sanskrit, more information on this could be found on http://xanatos.blog-city.com/indias_contribution_to_modern_civilisation_part_2.htm Before pointing out that the no. of Hindus practicing yoga is lesser than that of Non-Hindus one should know WHY yoga is not popular amongst them.
I would also like to share what should not be considered as my opinion but facts that qigong is based on yoga , all the major martial arts practiced today evolved from the ancient Indian martial art of “Kalaripayattu”. Today hardly anyone would believe that acupressure is NOT an ancient Chinese technique but an Ayurvedic remedy developed in India & that the first man on Everest was Tenzing Norgay, not Sir Edmond Hillary. |
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| Darling Yuvrajj: 1. You are NOT stating anything new. What you have stated has been stated by others. And, as I said your statements have facts in it. But, that is NOT sufficient. 2. What I said is: Hindus should practice Yoga more to support their originality. Otherwise, the situation you described will be worst. Now, there is NO excuse for not practicing Yoga. Because, it does not need any particular gadgets. The only thing it needs is will. And, if that is absent. And, if one wants to continue to only live off the ancestoral contribution, it amounts to stating that, for example:
- My 100th forefather was a hardworking man, who worked hard and he was able to feed 5000 persons. And, I am his 100th progeny. I am very proud of it. But, I am actually a homeless person. But, the last part you should forget. Just give me credit for the my forefathers.
How does that sound?
Peace
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-30 9:24 AM
Before pointing out that the no. of Hindus practicing yoga is lesser than that of Non-Hindus one should know WHY yoga is not popular amongst them.
So why do you believe this is, yuvrajjj? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | yuvrajjj - 2006-10-30 1:24 AM
I would also like to share what should not be considered as my opinion but facts that qigong is based on yoga , all the major martial arts practiced today evolved from the ancient Indian martial art of “Kalaripayattu”. Today hardly anyone would believe that acupressure is NOT an ancient Chinese technique but an Ayurvedic remedy developed in India & that the first man on Everest was Tenzing Norgay, not Sir Edmond Hillary.
Okay Mr. Prince Yuvrajjj,
Actually, Satyam says sooo many Nepalis sherpas climbed Sagarmatha (a.k.a Mt. Everest), long before, thousands of years before Tenzin Sherpa and Mr. Edmond Hillary,  Approximately 18 years ago, an older Nepalis woman, Pasang Lanhu Sherpa, climbed for $200,000 Rupees to feed her family. She reached the top and came back down and died. She didn't carry all the "usual" equipment that most modern people do, she did it naturally. Nepalis people worship this woman because they think she is like Durga, very brave.
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| the problem with americanization of yoga is the process of trying to rip the spiritual aspect out of the physical discipline. Instead of the perspective that yoga is a spiritual practice with ap hysical component, the americanization has flipped this reality as if it's a physical practice with an optional spiritual component. Simply, this is not true. So, yes, this is problematic.
aside from this, i have no issue with the application of yoga to christianity or any other religion. while yoga has it's roots in the vedic culture, it is a discipline that can be extracted out of context and utilized in other contexts. Just as prayer, ritual, fasting, scriptural study, meditation, etc are not religion-specific, neither is yoga.
but yoga must be approached as a spiritual discipline in order to be yoga. Regardless of which religion one practices yoga within, without practicing it as a spiritual discipline, one is only practicing stretching or gymnastics. |
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| zoebird - 2006-10-30 1:26 PM
but yoga must be approached as a spiritual discipline in order to be yoga. Regardless of which religion one practices yoga within, without practicing it as a spiritual discipline, one is only practicing stretching or gymnastics.
pistachio? |
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| Please, please, please explain this pistachio thing to me!
It's driving me crazy |
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| i have a preference for almonds, but my husband likes pistachios. |
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| jonnie - 2006-10-30 1:44 PM
Please, please, please explain this pistachio thing to me!
It's driving me crazy
I like 'em |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Two things:
1. Beth Shaw of YogaFit has not "churchified" yoga. There is no Christian component to YogaFit. I think whoever posted that has her confused with someone else.
2. Neither has she changed the Sanskrit names of asanas. In YogaFit's first three levels of training, the Sanskrit names are not taught but they haven't been changed. |
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| interestingly enough, in other 'brands' of yoga in the west, the sanskrit names have been left behind and english names given based on what the teacher 'feels' the pose looks like to a westerner. in kali rae tri-yoga, pidgeon pose (adho muka eka pada rajakapotasana) is called 'swan pose' because it 'looks like a swan. i agree, it does look like a swan, but the alignment is nothing like hamsasana which is swan pose. so, it does get confusing.
but of course, there are often multiple sanskrit names, and thus multiple translations, for the same pose. vashtithasana is also parsvo phalakanasana and ardha phalakanasana or side plank/half plank pose. all three sanskrit names are 'correct' depending upon lineage, and so also are 'all three' names of the pose, including vashtitha's pose being the third name.
i think that beth shaw of yoga fit in the past tried to distance the spiritual from the physical a great deal--it was in her earlier writings, but when she sought yoga alliance registry, she had to teach the philosophy, etc, and so that brought the spiritual component back in. it's greatly downplayed. i think if she had her way, she would keep it a physical practice without a spiritual component.
aside from this, there are people who want to do "christian yoga" and there is a woman who does htis though i can't remember her name and we had a thread about her in this very subforum for a while. maybe a couple of years ago now. Anyway, she 'took issue with' the cultural and religious origin, and then came up with something 'new' that had some yoga poses but took a christian perspective of everything. I found it to be problematic for a number of reasons, but not inherently. As i said/mentioned before, the spiritual discpline of yoga could be practiced within any religious context.
neel has an interesting point as well. more westerners do take yoga than indian/nepalis/etc, in this area. in fact, many have never studied yoga because the last generation wanted to be 'modern' and so they abandoned many practices. Their children are interested in yoga by hit-and-miss: some are, some aren't. Some of them are interested in yoga too, reading of the benefits while they age. this is why the local temple has invited me to teach yoga there. they feel that it's important to learn it, so they sought a teacher--even though she's not indian/nepalis/etc or of a certain age or hindu/jain/etc. |
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| JackieCat - 2006-10-31 12:31 AM
Two things:
1. Beth Shaw of YogaFit has not "churchified" yoga. There is no Christian component to YogaFit. I think whoever posted that has her confused with someone else.
Hi Jackiecat,
Sorry, my 'churchified' comment was in response to the OP's orginal statements and I just assumed that they were accurate.
jonathon |
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| Kulkarni Babu, India was under Muslim rule followed by the British for an unbroken one thousand years. During this period Hindu population was decimated. Hindu religious books were burned down , the universities of Taxsila & Nalanda & temples across the country were destroyed, now do you think that Hindus enjoyed the liberty of worshipping their Gods and practicing yoga ??? and eventually when India gained independence she was left with nothing but poverty. However the educated people (who wants to be modern) doesn’t form the majority of the population as India’s literacy rate is one of the lowest in the world. So even if they followed Hollywood celebrities (as Indian definition for modernism is “whatever Americans are doing”) and started practising yoga they would still be in the minority. The major EXCUSES why yoga is not practiced in India by the masses are, the discontinuation of the one thousand years is enough for anyone to forget the importance of yoga in their daily lives and poverty. An average Indian has to work more to earn more & there’s no time left to be wasted on yoga.
And Kulkarni Babu if these things are discussed before , than you could take them as a timely reminder.
Dear Cyndi jee , those ill-blessed sherpas and poor Tenzing Norgay are not westerners , so only Sir. Edmund Hillary has the right to be known as the first man on Everest.
And Dear Jackiecat, here’s an excerpt from the article on “About Yogafit” found on Beth Shaw’s Yogafit Official website , the link is http://www.yogafit.com/about.shtml
Bringing Yoga to the Fitness Industry – A Vision.
The YogaFit® Story -
YogaFit (“Yoga for the Fitness Industry”™), was developed in 1994 by Beth Shaw. After practicing yoga since 1989 and taking several “Yoga Certifications” Beth began teaching at fitness clubs in Los Angeles. She soon discovered that while traditional certifications taught a lot about the history and philosophy of Yoga, they did not address the nuts and bolts issue of teaching yoga in a health club. Knowing the many challenges of teaching yoga in a health club; bright lights, cold rooms, bodies of all types and fitness/ flexibility levels, she created her own style of yoga that combined fitness moves such as push ups, sit ups and squats with traditional yoga postures linked together in a flowing fitness format. To make the practice “user-friendly” she eliminated the Sanskrit names of the postures and avoided the oming and chanting sometimes associated with traditional yoga practices. YogaFit was born. Beth’s classes were packed, students wanted more !
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| light a candle
don't
curse the darkness |
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| Dear Yuvrajjj,
"Poor" Tenzing Norgay is highly regarded and respected in the west, especially in mountaineering circles. Neither himself or Edmund Hillary has ever (at least publicly) admitted which one of them reached the summit of Everest first. |
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-31 12:10 PM
Kulkarni Babu, India was under Muslim rule followed by the British for an unbroken one thousand years. During this period Hindu population was decimated. Hindu religious books were burned down , the universities of Taxsila & Nalanda & temples across the country were destroyed, now do you think that Hindus enjoyed the liberty of worshipping their Gods and practicing yoga ??? and eventually when India gained independence she was left with nothing but poverty. However the educated people (who wants to be modern) doesn’t form the majority of the population as India’s literacy rate is one of the lowest in the world. So even if they followed Hollywood celebrities (as Indian definition for modernism is “whatever Americans are doing”) and started practising yoga they would still be in the minority. The major EXCUSES why yoga is not practiced in India by the masses are, the discontinuation of the one thousand years is enough for anyone to forget the importance of yoga in their daily lives and poverty. An average Indian has to work more to earn more & there’s no time left to be wasted on yoga.
And Kulkarni Babu if these things are discussed before , than you could take them as a timely reminder.
Dear Cyndi jee , those ill-blessed sherpas and poor Tenzing Norgay are not westerners , so only Sir. Edmund Hillary has the right to be known as the first man on Everest.
And Dear Jackiecat, here’s an excerpt from the article on “About Yogafit” found on Beth Shaw’s Yogafit Official website , the link is http://www.yogafit.com/about.shtml
Bringing Yoga to the Fitness Industry – A Vision.
The YogaFit® Story -
YogaFit (“Yoga for the Fitness Industry”™), was developed in 1994 by Beth Shaw. After practicing yoga since 1989 and taking several “Yoga Certifications” Beth began teaching at fitness clubs in Los Angeles. She soon discovered that while traditional certifications taught a lot about the history and philosophy of Yoga, they did not address the nuts and bolts issue of teaching yoga in a health club. Knowing the many challenges of teaching yoga in a health club; bright lights, cold rooms, bodies of all types and fitness/ flexibility levels, she created her own style of yoga that combined fitness moves such as push ups, sit ups and squats with traditional yoga postures linked together in a flowing fitness format. To make the practice “user-friendly” she eliminated the Sanskrit names of the postures and avoided the oming and chanting sometimes associated with traditional yoga practices. YogaFit was born. Beth’s classes were packed, students wanted more !
Are Yuvarajsahib: I am not stating that muslim and british governments have nothing to do with making India poor or to reduce Yoga practice. What I am saying now is:
a) They can be proud of their Indian Heritage.
b) But, to support that pride they should also practice sufficiently. I do not believe from my travels to and knowledge of Indians that they do not have enough time and money to practice Yoga, today. And, it is an interesting fact that Indian temple could not find Indian teacher for teaching Yoga in the temple. |
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| kulkarnn - 2006-10-31 2:12 PM
a) They can be proud of their Indian Heritage.
AH! now I can see! |
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Christian Yoga
