 |
  |
 |
|
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
Site Areas  |
store | | | articles | | | forums | | | studios | | | vacations |
|
yoga | massage | fitness | wellness | meditation |
|
|
For future visits, link to "http://www.YogiSource.com/forums".
Make a new bookmark.
Tell your friends so they can find us and you!
Coming soon ... exciting new changes for our website, now at YogiSource.com.
 anatomy..part IIModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Iyengar Yoga | Message format |
fechter03 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 475   Location: canada | nick (and anyone else interested,  ) i noticed something interesting today: i can get into full dwi pada viparita dandasana much easier than urdhva dhanurasana..shouldn't the former be a more advanced asana? obviously there is some tightness somewhere still..don't know if its the shoulders, upper back or wherever. so, i'd like to know whats going on in both of these poses. we've already done urdhva dhanurasana many times but in dwi pada VP, are the shoulders less of a factor? | ||
| |||
|
| ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
  Location: London, England | Hi Fechter, Wow, now you have me straining at the leash  Good question. First of all, are you coming into the dwi pada from a headstand, or from the floor? I think that when dwi pada is easier, there are a few factors: 1) The Triceps, pectoralis, and other muscles which flex the shoulder may be too tight, or too weak, to allow enough range of motion in the shoulder to allow you to lift easily into urdvha dhanurasana. Learning to re-balance the shoulder muscles so that the shoulder girdle is held in good posture, and has the ability to change its position so that our yoga postures are enhanced, both in performance and in health, is a vital part of our yoga practice. 2) In dwi pada, the shoulders are set in position before you go to headstand-the movement to dwi pada only requires that you hold the shoulders in the same place-in urdvha dhanurasana, you are required to use the shoulder muscles to move you towards the asana-this is more difficult. 3) So if you go to dwi pada from a headstand, you are basically falling into the posture-the extent towards which you can control the fall will influence the degree of ability with which you can do the pose-this is why more advanced students can usually move more slowly into postures, or they at least try to. Yoga is markedly different from sport therefore, in that we try to move slower than gravity, rather than faster. 4) Dwi pada is a backbend which is concentrated mainly in the upper body-great extension is needed in the thoracic spine, but only moderate dregees of shoulder flexion-the elbows are in front of the body-in urdvha dhanurasana, the elbows are pulled right up-much more of a test for shoulder flexibility and strength. To illustrate the above, i often warm up for urdvha dhanurasana by practicing dwi pada first-my thoracic spine gets warmed up to be able to to urdvha dhanurasana much more easily. Another favourite is to try jumping from urvha dhanuraana towards a handstand. It doesn't matter if you feet only lift a few inches, but the movement seems to be very good at warming up the shoulders and spine. This is a form of plyometrics, which is something that is used both in athletes and in rehab-the so-called jump training. It's high risk, and not for everybody-but it is good to experiment with according to your ability. There's loads more reasons that urdvha dhanurasana is easier, mostly to do with hip flexibility, but that's what occurs to me at the moment Take care Nick | ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi Purna, Not better, just more confusing It might be good to outline the joints of the shoulder girdle: The sternoclavicular joint is a fibrocartilaginous joint. Trace your breastbone to where it meets with you clavicle (collar bone) and there is the joint. Try shrugging and you will detect a small movement. The acromioclavicular joint-trace your clavicle towards the shoulder, and when you get quite close to the shoulder, you will feel a roughening of the bone-this this the AC joint. Again, it's cartilaginous, so not much movement going on. The scapulothoracic joint-Not really a joint at all. The ST joint exists between the anterior surface of the shoulderblade and the rib cage-there is no joint as such, but the muscles surround the scapula and create an effective joint between the scapula and the rib cage-albeit one that is changing position as the shoulder blade slides around. These are the joints of the shoulder girdle, now the shoulder joint itself is a synovial ball and socket joint. It has a huge range of motion, which in part explains why it dislocates so often, compared to the hip. I just wanted to get across some of the anatomy, because, as you say, the two postures do make different demands on the the four joints. I guess the thing about dwi pada is that even though the shoulder blade is protracted, the aim should be to retract it, using the lower trapezius and latissimus dorsi, so that it is pulled inwards and downwards, without externally rotating. Protraction will set the shoulder blade, and the these muscles will start to pull on the spine so that more extension is achieved through the thoracic spine-potentially. I use this approach in urdvha dhanurasana as well-you often see people spread the shoulders when they are lying on the floor, waiting to lift up. Retracting the shoulder blades instead helps to pre-contract the muscles that help us extend our arms. Nick | ||
| |||
| fechter03 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 475 Location: canada | Nick - 2006-08-13 7:59 AM First of all, are you coming into the dwi pada from a headstand, or from the floor? thanks nick. yes i come up from the floor. doing it from headstand involves that fear factor, Nick - 2006-08-13 7:59 AM 4) Dwi pada is a backbend which is concentrated mainly in the upper body-great extension is needed in the thoracic spine, but only moderate dregees of shoulder flexion-the elbows are in front of the body-in urdvha dhanurasana, the elbows are pulled right up-much more of a test for shoulder flexibility and strength. that's exactly what i thought. during my backbend sequence i ended with natarajasana with a strap. i think this really prepared me for dwi pada; then finally urdhva dhanurasana. there is definitely some resistance but i feel it more in the upper back area. Nick - 2006-08-13 7:59 AM There's loads more reasons that urdvha dhanurasana is easier, mostly to do with hip flexibility, but that's what occurs to me at the moment Take care Nick hmm...i find this interesting since from the waist down, dwi pada and urdhva d are similar but yet, hip flexibility is more of a factor in UD?? so in UD, compression is more likely since it can be caused by tight hips or tight shoulders. | ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi Fechter, "hmm...i find this interesting since from the waist down, dwi pada and urdhva d are similar but yet, hip flexibility is more of a factor in UD?? so in UD, compression is more likely since it can be caused by tight hips or tight shoulders" In the full expression of each posture, the hip position is very different-when the position is less than optimal, then the hip position is often the same. To get the most out of dwi pada, for instance, it is important not to extend the hips too much, otherwise the knees have to bend. Keeping the hips closer to the floor wil also help the spine to hinge around the thoracic spine-if the pelvis is extended to much, it tends to lift, so that the opportunity to stretch the shoulders and spine are lost. In urdvha dhanurasana, however, you are much further from the floor-now it is advantageous to extend the hips so that once again, the shoulders and thoracic spine are utilized properly. If hip extension is not optimized, then the low back gets compressed, and thoracic cage and shoulders do not attain the same range of motion. So there are similiarities between the postures-but they are different positions, and will require different postures of every joint in the body, if either is to be mastered. I would say so, anyway, probably wrong, of course  Nick | ||
| |||
| Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
| (Delete all cookies set by this site) | |