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Discussion of the Sutras
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judamom
Posted 2006-06-22 6:01 AM (#56480 - in reply to #56465)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


I did see it several times and loved it. I especially enjoyed the experiments with the water and the effects our thoughts have on cellular material things. Love made the water molecules turn to beautiful chrystal appearing pictures....the gentleman who discovered that has a book out with visual proof. Actually, I felt the title was somewhat appropriate for what the movie was trying to say....What the Bleep do we Know? It could be that the creator and the creation cannot fully be known with these human minds.........at least till we take the time and effort the be rid of the veils that block our understanding.....from everything I have read.......I have taken the time and the effort and I feel I see more clearly all the time and yet know I am still a beginner. I celebrate with each new understanding......knowing it will change as my mind expands. Like Carlos Castaneda learned from Don Juan, "Definitions Change as knowledge Increases"
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judamom
Posted 2006-06-22 6:38 AM (#56483 - in reply to #56476)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


Can/Do we know what you say is the "One Truth". I have searched all philosophies and religions for my entire life....starting at 8 years old with Christianity....which is now my least favorite of all the philosophies and I cannot say I have found "Truth" in any one of them. I find humans who say they know "The Truth" and attempt to convince me that their one philosophy has it.......thus they can stop searching (and in many cases stop thinking) but all philosophies take me to an uneasy, restless, and unanswerable place.....including Yoga. I cannot say I have found The Truth unless it be "Love" and that can be found in the most UNphilosophical and UNreligious places. I have only glimpsed "Love" on a couple of occasions and it was undescribable and completely overwhelming--and beyond anything we humans consider love to be. That I will accept as Truth.....all else is human made ritual, contemplation, explanation, and attempted in words.....although it is thought that Sanskrit is the most complete form of words to use in communication of thoughts and ideas it still lacks pure thought process, except by such few. Won't it be interested and exciting when we learn to freely communicate by simply exchanging thoughts with no words? Might I completely change the subject and ask if anyone can explain what our etheric body is. I have been fimiliar with it in studies forever and still have a feeling of wonderment whenever I come across it. I feel if I could just get a clear description from one who has a clear understanding in their mind that they are willing to share......it might be helpful. I read that our body organs are controled from our etheric bodies and that could be helpful in health......although I am extremely healthy it could be a teaching tool to others and maintaining their health if that be their concern. I picture the etheric body to be a replica of my material body, just outside and yet connected by the chakras mainly. That could be very different from someone else's thinking and I would totally honor someone else's understanding, be they willing to share.
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-22 8:26 AM (#56486 - in reply to #56474)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


kulkarnn - 2006-06-21 11:11 PM

Brother SCT:

All material gross or finer is divided into 5 elements:

Solids, Liquids, Gases, Energy, and Space. All these can be perceived one or more of 5 senses for sight, hearing, smell, touch and taste.

This also means that they can be described using these senses, such as that done in your post. Depending on the subtleness, a finer instrument is necessary. For example, to see egg of a chicken one can use humn eyes. But, to see egg of a human one may need a microscope. ETC.

Spirit is something beyond five senses. And, therefore, it can not also be described using them.

Spirit can only be experienced and then only its existence can be told. That is the Truth, or sat, sat meaning what exists permanently. All other is asat meaining it changes not existing permanently.



OK, thank you

now

Spirit is not light, right?

can light be an adjuctive descriptor of spirit?

but then, matter really is light/energy, all agreed?
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-06-22 9:02 AM (#56492 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


Okay, I was trying to put things into simple words for my own benefit. I should know better. Spiritual themes don't translate too well into simple words. Too many concepts. Personally, I could have a fulfilling life without knowing it all. Actually I do. And I can't know what will happen to me until I leave here, but I can wait. While I'm waiting I can attach myself to a theory, and believe it with every fiber of my being, but that won't make it truth. It will be just a theory that I believe in.

Speaking of which, I do have a theory I believe in. I won't go into how I came about this theory. It certainly wasn't scientific. I believe that before we start our lives here, we've made a conscious choice to be here. Once we're here in the physical word, we become overwhelmed with making our way in this life. I believe that newborn babies can remember where we come from, and that unexplained infant illness, such as colic, arise when these babies aren't reassured upon arrival. Their first experience with time is as a helpless infant, and a minute can feel like forever when you're hungry, or worse, and can't do anything to change your situation. I think these babies feel tricked into coming over, and feel resentful, and forget why they came over in the first place.
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-22 9:24 AM (#56495 - in reply to #56492)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


bstqltmkr - 2006-06-22 9:02 AM

Okay, I was trying to put things into simple words for my own benefit. I should know better. Spiritual themes don't translate too well into simple words. Too many concepts. Personally, I could have a fulfilling life without knowing it all. Actually I do. And I can't know what will happen to me until I leave here, but I can wait. While I'm waiting I can attach myself to a theory, and believe it with every fiber of my being, but that won't make it truth. It will be just a theory that I believe in.

Speaking of which, I do have a theory I believe in. I won't go into how I came about this theory. It certainly wasn't scientific. I believe that before we start our lives here, we've made a conscious choice to be here. Once we're here in the physical word, we become overwhelmed with making our way in this life. I believe that newborn babies can remember where we come from, and that unexplained infant illness, such as colic, arise when these babies aren't reassured upon arrival. Their first experience with time is as a helpless infant, and a minute can feel like forever when you're hungry, or worse, and can't do anything to change your situation. I think these babies feel tricked into coming over, and feel resentful, and forget why they came over in the first place.


babies?!

out of my four, and when it comes to raising them, i've come to the conclusion that, as a man in America, i've played a larger role in baby handling than most.

two out of the four have those personalities that are high maintanance.
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-06-22 10:29 AM (#56516 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


Four babies, how nice for you! I think before we get here we know our lives are really just a blink of the eye, but when we get here and have to wait for everything it all seems a horrible trick. It isn't until later in life that we can appreciate how fast time is actually passing, and even then, waiting can be torture. Babies can be reassured by reminding them how quickly they are learning and growing and changing. I think this anyway, I'm sure it's all b.s. to someone else.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2006-06-22 10:30 AM (#56517 - in reply to #56486)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


SCThornley - 2006-06-22 8:26 AM

OK, thank you

now

Spirit is not light, right?
===> Yes, It is NOT Optical light.

can light be an adjuctive descriptor of spirit?
===> In a certain context, you can do it if you like. Generally, light is used to describe sattwa guna, that is serene tendency, and also knowledge.

but then, matter really is light/energy, all agreed?
===> Matter is energy. That is known and is described as e = mc squared... Eienstein

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SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-22 10:38 AM (#56520 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


ok so this "not this" exercise is has determined what spirit is not

what is spirit?

what is soul?

Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-22 10:41 AM
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-22 10:47 AM (#56524 - in reply to #56516)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


bstqltmkr - 2006-06-22 10:29 AM

Four babies, how nice for you! I think before we get here we know our lives are really just a blink of the eye, but when we get here and have to wait for everything it all seems a horrible trick. It isn't until later in life that we can appreciate how fast time is actually passing, and even then, waiting can be torture. Babies can be reassured by reminding them how quickly they are learning and growing and changing. I think this anyway, I'm sure it's all b.s. to someone else.


oiy vey! four children, yes 2, 6, 8, 15 years old---how did it ever happen this way? i used to be such a trendy young bachelor[joking].

some personalities are just happy in their own skin, others are not satisfied--some are naturally patient others can not stand to wait

that is the only thing that makes sense to me as i watch them grow






Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-22 10:48 AM
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tourist
Posted 2006-06-22 11:03 AM (#56533 - in reply to #56524)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
Watching children grow up is such an amazing education. I've been lucky to be able to do it both with my own and other's children for the past 25 or so years. I have 2 little girls (under 2 years old - I work in an early childhood centre with toddlers) right now who are absolute images of their mothers physically, temperamentally and behaviourally. I have a sense that, no matter what their upbringing, experiences or any other variables, they would be exactly the way they are now. Other children seem to come into the world much more malleable and not so pre-determined or strongly inclined. All very fascinating!
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-06-22 11:22 AM (#56543 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


When my first baby was born, everyone said she looks just like you. When I looked at her I though ohh, she's so beautiful, she's so perfect, she's nothing like me. What are they talking about? And then one day I saw how she looked just like a picture of myself as a toddler, and I laughed and laughed. I guess I felt beautiful that day.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2006-06-22 3:03 PM (#56593 - in reply to #56520)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


SCThornley - 2006-06-22 10:38 AM

ok so this "not this" exercise is has determined what spirit is not

what is spirit?

what is soul?


It is something when all the material perception is transcended. In the words of the saint, Shree Ramakrishna Paramhansa - a person went to see the depth of the see and on coming back, he/she can not describe it except: na iti na iti.

Peace
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-22 3:16 PM (#56594 - in reply to #56593)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


kulkarnn - 2006-06-22 3:03 PM

SCThornley - 2006-06-22 10:38 AM

ok so this "not this" exercise is has determined what spirit is not

what is spirit?

what is soul?


It is something when all the material perception is transcended. In the words of the saint, Shree Ramakrishna Paramhansa - a person went to see the depth of the see and on coming back, he/she can not describe it except: na iti na iti.

Peace


i'm smiling

thank you



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kulkarnn
Posted 2006-06-22 11:27 PM (#56634 - in reply to #56594)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


SCThornley - 2006-06-22 3:16 PM

kulkarnn - 2006-06-22 3:03 PM

SCThornley - 2006-06-22 10:38 AM

ok so this "not this" exercise is has determined what spirit is not

what is spirit?

what is soul?


It is something when all the material perception is transcended. In the words of the saint, Shree Ramakrishna Paramhansa - a person went to see the depth of the see and on coming back, he/she can not describe it except: na iti na iti.

Peace


i'm smiling

thank you





I do not mind your smile. It is your hug that I am scared of.
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-06-23 9:27 AM (#56665 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


I've been reading parts of this over and over, hoping something sinks in. One problem I had was assuming completely transending the physical plane meant death. Can someone completely trancend the physical, and still be attached to their live here? Even in near death experience, I don't believe the person completely crosses over to find out the full answer to the mystery. It's just my opinion, or maybe I'm attached to the idea that it has to be a mystery.

Also, when I was in high school, I was taught that when you assume, you make an ass out of u&me. I've found it to be mostly true. In my own situations anyway.
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-23 3:33 PM (#56701 - in reply to #56665)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


bstqltmkr - 2006-06-23 9:27 AM

I've been reading parts of this over and over, hoping something sinks in. One problem I had was assuming completely transending the physical plane meant death. Can someone completely trancend the physical, and still be attached to their live here? Even in near death experience, I don't believe the person completely crosses over to find out the full answer to the mystery. It's just my opinion, or maybe I'm attached to the idea that it has to be a mystery.

Also, when I was in high school, I was taught that when you assume, you make an ass out of u&me. I've found it to be mostly true. In my own situations anyway.



you can transcend the physical plane and not die, and this is the aim or goal or result of the practice of the science of yoga

yoga practice is more than stretching and and tumbling and breathing -=- but it appears that most are simply trying to learn how to control their bodies, and that is one arm of the yoga practice, but the mind control is what i've learned will put you in touch with the soul

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Phoenix
Posted 2006-06-28 9:51 PM (#57091 - in reply to #56386)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


funny funny!!!! Did not expect that to come out on this site.
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-06-30 11:09 AM (#57238 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


This topic has been on my mind, and I find I'm thinking about this while I'm doing my work. This is all my opinion, so feel free to disagree.

SCT- you stated a goal of yoga, and I would say that the goal is personal. For some people it is physical, or at least starts out that way, and evolves. I suppose a group of practitioners could get together, and make a common goal, but they would have to agree to it.

For my own experience, yoga has strengthened my mind, my body, and my spirit. I also like to know about what other people believe, as a chance to learn, and expand my consciousness. I try to learn something that I can apply to my daily life, even if I don't buy a total package. My experience with meditation has expanded my consciousness, but I don't imagine I've transended the physical plane. I think everywhere I've been is all in my head, which I'm sure I could explore for a while and still not know as well as I would like. I have a hard time believing that someone's vision is a reality, such as a basis for a religion, and that others should follow. I respect other people's beliefs, but for myself, I'm a total skeptic. On the other hand, I don't believe in something just because it can be scientifically proven. I'm skeptical of them also. I'm not angry, just skeptical.

Why is it that after you write a word a few times, it starts to look weird, or mispelled?
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-07-01 10:12 AM (#57283 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


Hey, I didn't mean to sound scolding, or whatever, just that if someone says this is that, my mind automatically tries to think of times when that isn't true. I'm skeptical, but will thoroughly consider any information. When I can uncover any nuggets of wisdom that I think I could incorporate into my daily life I appreciate it. I really do enjoy seeing things from different perspectives, and trying to learn new concept. It's not easy for me, but I think it's not supposed to be easy.
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Posted 2006-08-06 9:50 PM (#61162 - in reply to #56281)
Subject: RE: Discussion of the Sutras


Perhaps if we add a discussion of Avidya to this thread...?

It is one of the Five Kleshas. I've been told that people of the board can and should "google" terms like this. That it's part of their learning. And while I'm not ready to jump on that train in full force, I am willing to give it a run and see.

In Pada II of the Sutras this is discussed - Kleshas, Yamas, and Niyamas.

Could our Sutra scholars chime in relative to this please?
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