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| I think a great revelation that happens in the practice of yoga asana is the uncovering of the subtle aspects of ego. I feel myself utilise ego to practice challenging asanas and to hold postures longer, but often reflect how to release ego in my practice. Ego manifests in many ways, when I am in classes I find myself trying to hold a posture longer than the person next to me. At times this has been a worthy practice as I have uncovered something which before I was unaware of, and perhaps wouldn't have uncovered if I allowed myself to release in my own timing.
One of the best experiences I had in asana practice was holding adho mukha svanasana for 8 minutes. This came about before a class, my friend and I were holding dog pose for about 3 minutes when our teacher came up to us with an alarm clock set for 5 minutes and jokingly remarked, hold for another 5 minutes. Immediately I felt ego kick in to accept the challenge. It was interesting to watch throughout those 8 minutes the interaction between ego trying to keep me there and then the release of ego and the observation of sensations throughout my body. I also could really feel the areas where awareness was dull as pain crept into them. After releasing from the pose I felt light and could feel that ego was gratified.
So I guess one of the most challenging aspects of asana practice is utilising the ego without being attached to it, far more difficult than the most challenging asana.
I was wondering how does everyone here keep a check on ego in their asana practice. |
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| i always like it when the ego argues with itself:
ego: i can hold this posture for 8 minutes, no problem!
ego: but i don't know if i want to!
ego: you want to!
ego: i don't know if i do, i mean, i might break the arms!
ego: you won't break the arms! it'll be over before you know it anyway.
ego: yeah, what were we talking about?
ego: doing the pose for 8 minutes.
ego: which pose?
ego: this pose you're doing now.
ego: i'm not doing a pose now, i'm breaking the arms.
ego: you're not breaking the arms.
ego: oh yes i am! unless i come out of this pose!
ego: you're going to do this pose for eight minutes.
ego: like hell i am. i'm breaking the arms. i need to come out. Lets send out the urgent-anxiety hormone.
ego: sure, whatever, but we're doing this pose for 8 minutes.
ego: that's impossible!
ego: no it's not!
---
this has been a recreation of zoebird's brain on yoga. |
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| teeeheee it was alot like that. 
though with moments of quiet reflection.
Those fluctuations of the mind can be amusing/ irratating at the same time. Many of my practises lately I can hear the unrelenting chatter inside my mind. Oh well more practice less attachement.
Edited by damien 2005-12-20 9:40 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | Okay, so try this to keep your ego in check:
If the person next to you is struggling with Baddha Konasana, do not
sit there doing the full version of the pose. Do something completely
different.
If others around you are struggling to do intermediate poses, ask yourself
whether you are doing advanced poses in front of them for the sake of your
ego. Try doing a pose that you really suck at, and see if you find it embarassing.
Don't do the advanced pose unless it is a direct element of you practice and
you can do it without feeling "superior".
And after you've done that for a while, see if you appreciate the difference
between displaying your ability and simply doing your yoga.
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| I agree with bay guy. A lot of this stuff comes easily, so often the best ego busting I can do on the mat is go into child pose, or take a less challenging version of the posture. Sometimes the "less" challenging postures are actually more challenging, but in different ways. For example, in tree it's possible to put your foot into your leg, or to put it into half-lotus, and bend over. At the local studio they teach putting your foot into your leg to the beginners and offer the other version to the more advanced people. I've been doing the former much more, which helps me work on balance which I struggle with. Putting my foot into half-lotus is much more of an ego-trip I think.
I also had some issues with one of the local teachers who used to give me more attention that the other students, and hold me up as an example. This was confidence boosting for a while, but it also fed my ego to the point that I asked her to stop doing it.
Is it really possible to stop the ego so long as the internal dialogue persists? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
I've stopped going to some places when there's too much
"now look at bay guy if you'd like to see the full pose".
I don't like the jealousy that it inspires, and I don't like
the associated egoism and performance pressure. |
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| Great point, Damien, about how despite our struggle to release the ego during practice on and off the mat it is sometimes this which takes us to the next level. Just goes to remind us that nothing is all good or all bad. |
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| Bay Guy - 2005-12-20 9:23 PM
I've stopped going to some places when there's too much
"now look at bay guy if you'd like to see the full pose".
I don't like the jealousy that it inspires, and I don't like
the associated egoism and performance pressure.
i remember when i first started practicing, i would marvel at the students being held up as examples. now as one of those students, i find it to be slightly embarrassing.
ego is something i struggle with a lot sometimes. just have to keep telling myself its not a competition and remain focused on my own practice. and anyways, it sucks when you're focused on someone else when you're supposed to be just doing yoga...
practicing on my own as opposed to taking classes has really helped me deal with this. you really learn what you need to do for your own benefit, as opposed to what you might do to show off for that cute girl standing two rows back...
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| i mean, look at that post i just made...
all i did was talk about myself 
Edited by dhanurasana 2005-12-21 12:54 AM
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| LoraB - 2005-12-22 3:40 PM
Great point, Damien, about how despite our struggle to release the ego during practice on and off the mat it is sometimes this which takes us to the next level. Just goes to remind us that nothing is all good or all bad.
Thanks. I used to think that ego is a bad thing but closer inspection has taught me that ego is a great tool when utilised with proper understanding.
bad guy
Okay, so try this to keep your ego in check:
If the person next to you is struggling with Baddha Konasana, do not
sit there doing the full version of the pose. Do something completely
different.
If others around you are struggling to do intermediate poses, ask yourself
whether you are doing advanced poses in front of them for the sake of your
ego. Try doing a pose that you really suck at, and see if you find it embarassing.
Don't do the advanced pose unless it is a direct element of you practice and
you can do it without feeling "superior".
And after you've done that for a while, see if you appreciate the difference
between displaying your ability and simply doing your yoga.
Sound advice bad guy, my terribly tight hamstrings should keep me humble 
Edited by damien 2005-12-21 2:52 AM
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| Bay Guy - 2005-12-20 10:23 PM
I've stopped going to some places when there's too much
"now look at bay guy if you'd like to see the full pose".
I don't like the jealousy that it inspires, and I don't like
the associated egoism and performance pressure.
Agreed. That was my response to. The teacher had some other problems as well, and when she didn't address this one after I spoke to her about it, I left. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| I suppose one of the benefits of Iyengar is that there is never a "perfect" pose. Most often we will have 2 or 3 students pulled out to demo and the teacher goes down the line and tells us the area where each student needs to work more in the pose. And this is virtually never done in beginner classes, rarely done in Level II, so it is "mature" students who are both demo-ing and being given instruction, making it more likely that ego won't be a problem (not impssible, just more likely  ) Even when the demo looks beautiful, there are usually ways to improve to the "BKS" level. |
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| I do not think there is any problem in one striving to do a better pose within one's capacity, that is without injuring oneself. Whether it has anything to do with others doing a better or worse performance should not be any issue. Also, if one looks at another person who is doing a worse pose (whether in appearance or real), one can not but have to accept the fact that his/her pose is better. Same, with another person doing a better pose than one. It has NOTHING to do with Ego.
Actually, Ego can not be avoided at all until one is in Spiritually Realized state. When ego disappears, it is synonymous with Spiritual Realization.
What is bad is Egotism. That is more importance is given to ME or I than the actual performance.
The real definiton of Ego is: Assumption that one is doing things when one is actually NOT.
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| i find that this is the case in my classes as well. when i teach, i often demonstrate. i point out my own problems in the posture, directing orally how htings 'should' go directionally. i also say 'ok, try this. and then if you feel comfortable, open into this. and if you feel comfortable, then we can go here.'
and i'll stop where ever the last person in the class stops. then, i'll usually crack a joke about it--like "can't get there. oh well, maybe tomorrow!'
as to my own practice, i tend to practice modified in the classroom setting to avoid adjustments. many of the teachers in this area will heavy-hand me knowing that i'm a teacher and that i have a lot of ability to 'go deeper' into poses. But, they don't know that i'm nursing a few things in a few areas so i'll heavily modify postures where i know they'll want to take my farther than i want to go that day.
it's a rare day when i go 100% toward completing a pose (or however you want to describe it) in class. i'll usually go farther into a pose on my own at home, and then ask the teacher before/after class if he/she has any suggestions on how to better enter the posture or work on an opening that i may need to help develop the posture. Similarly, i may stay in the studio after class for a little extra practice of my own. usually, no one is in the room at the time, except the person who comes in to sweep the floor.
i just find that classroom settings are great for going deeper into breath, concentration, and allowing someone else to lead the movement (such as sequencing). The asana is usually secondary to me. and particularly if it's one that i'm nursing a bit. |
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| I think neel has the right of it, but I feel the need to give some more details.
I was originally the only person being singled out, often several times in a session. Part of the problem was that she has a problem with remembering people's names. We also get along very well, and I've been coming for some time, so she feels more comfortable with me than some of the other students.
Anyway, she also has a serious background as a professional ballernia, which I think has caused some egotism problems for her. In some ways I feel that I was being put in a similar position to the one that caused her own problems. I was pushed forward to be the center of attention.
Since I didn't want to develop this level of arrogance and egotism I decided to go to another class. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Right on Neelbhai...great definition of the EGO.
What you guys are discussing is not really about the EGO, you are discussing COMPETITIVENESS, which is only a mere aspect of the EGO.
So, now that we have cleared that up...I'm not really as great of a Chef as I thought I was...someone is always going to come along and knock me off my throne, and bake a better cake than mine, |
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| i also found this dynamic with former ballerina's/dancers in my classes. one person would always be talking about who got called out in class to demo a pose, would position themselves next to others who they thought were at the "top of the class" and would either get all shiny and happy after being chosen to demo a pose, or when not chose, be talking like, "oh, no, i'm not as good as so and so" not saying all dancers are like this, because i also know some who left that competitiveness behind, even though they have strong practices. i have heard a little about how they treat child dancers and it sounds like sometimes it can be really terrible. Best, |
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| Actually, competition also is NOT a problem as follows:
- Those who want to compete should look for those who have better performance, like BKS quoted by sister Tourist.
- And, they should do their competition, without making it injury.
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| My teacher does not usually hold a student up as an example, but on Monday we were doing supta virasana and she could not get all the way down, so she mentioned me because I was down ("Look at Laura, she's flat"). Then another student said "Yeah I am beginning to wonder if she has any bones." It was a small exchange & not important in any way, but I noticed that it both pleased & embarrassed me & just generally trashed my focus for awhile. Exactly as Damien says ... it was a revelation to me that I reacted so strongly. |
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| This is a very fascinating discussion! Thanks to Damien for starting it!
I find the same inner ego dialogue when I am practicing on my own, and more when I am taking a group class. It is interesting to me that as soon as one of the voices says "You know, this is YOUR practice, you don't HAVE TO do anything" is when I relax into the pose and enjoy it, like I could hold it just forever and ever.
I don't think the ego can be stopped, or that it needs to be. When we can learn to just observe the conversation without becoming involved, we have already reached a high goal.
When I'm teaching, I find it interesting that the students who think they are very advanced will always jump immediately into a full version of the pose they "predict" will be next. There is always so much to be learned from the steps leading up to the pose, and when I see this we all spend a LOT more time exploring those steps! I just feel like they're not getting the most out of the practice if they race through it and try to "perform" instead of dig into the nitty-gritty of the less challenging poses. As someone said earlier (and much better), a less-advanced pose offers a very different, sometimes more difficult, type of challenge.
This is a little bit different from the students who understand their own practices and simply go their own way from time to time. I have a young lady that simply must have a shoulderstand before savasana, even if I don't think it's right for the whole class on that day. So, she does what her body dictates feels right for her. To me, that's not the same as blasting through the poses quickly just because you can. |
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| I kinda feel like this one is the snake eating its own tail...
If I'm pushing myself deeper into a posture and I catch myself and say "hey ego, slow down" - then I'm learning about myself and growing. But what if what I really need is to push myself a little closer to the edge? If I tell myself that pushing is really the ego, so I don't push - has the clever little ego used my own fear of the ego to trick myself into not going to the edge?
Too many layers to think about and my head hurts!
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| Mitch, I think that's partially where the teacher or another outside observer might help. You could also view it as a bit of a balancing act. Not too much effort, not too little. |
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| Mitch - 2005-12-23 10:33 AM
I kinda feel like this one is the snake eating its own tail...
If I'm pushing myself deeper into a posture and I catch myself and say "hey ego, slow down" - then I'm learning about myself and growing. But what if what I really need is to push myself a little closer to the edge? If I tell myself that pushing is really the ego, so I don't push - has the clever little ego used my own fear of the ego to trick myself into not going to the edge?
Too many layers to think about and my head hurts!
I understand what you mean. I think this is where honesty is of the utmost importance. One needs to be honest about their motivations and their abilities. Sometimes moving further into a posture can also sacrifice the integrity of that posture, for example take a simple posture Parsvakonasana. I began using a block upright for the hand then moved to its side and then took it away altogether. It wasn't until this year of continued practice that I felt that the pose is best contained when I use a block on its side. So sometimes we play to the edge to see what happens to the posture and then we gain an understanding of where is an ideal place for us to explore. |
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| Cyndi - 2005-12-22 4:09 AM
Right on Neelbhai...great definition of the EGO.
What you guys are discussing is not really about the EGO, you are discussing COMPETITIVENESS, which is only a mere aspect of the EGO.
So, now that we have cleared that up...I'm not really as great of a Chef as I thought I was...someone is always going to come along and knock me off my throne, and bake a better cake than mine,
No I'm talking about more than competitiveness. I agree that competitiveness is an aspect or manifestation of ego. I am interested in how does one utilise ego with none attachement. It is of my opinion that to operate in this world of duality that one must use The sense of I-ness. One uses this sense of self to realise Self. I see Yoga as a means to do this and I'm particulary interested in how to do an asana practise with such understanding. I find it interesting how ego reveals itself in asana practice and how at times one can observe ego without identifying with it. So I guess where I am at with my understanding of ego is that it is not to be overcome and discarded but properly identified with and used.
Hope that there is some clarity in what I have just posted |
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| Dear Damien:
I do not think your above post has made your statements clearer. I feel it made the original posting more complex. I think that the problem is caused by usage of the word, 'ego'. In the classical yoga system, egotism must be removed, and at the end even pure ego must be overcome. So, there is no such a thing as using ego in Asanas, etc. in the general understanding. I think you are meaning something other than ego. Could you please restate your statement?
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Ego in yoga
