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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Damien,
One of the ways I treat the Ego on the mat is the same as I would treat it OFF the mat. Another words, in my mind, there is no difference anymore. I used to seperate the two. I used to live one way outside in the world and a different way when I was inside my world. Not anymore - no longer. But, when I did seperate the two, it was necessary for my experience at that time. How else would I know the difference? Once I had someone give me some very useful advice. It was something to the effect that having some Ego can be a good IF it is tamed properly. So, I had a practice of *taming* the Ego, which was very enlightening to say the least. It was also very hard at times too because it kicked my butt all over the place until I learned. When dealing with the Ego its like peeling an onion..there are so many layers of it until you reach the core. Then when you think you are standing naked out in the cold, freezing your a$$ offf, you suddenly find yourself surrounded by a warm safe cocoon, 
As for the NON-Attachment part...well, that just comes naturally with practice. Also, the spiritual understanding of the practice also falls into place as well. You really need to be guided by a guru on some kind of level whether it be by teachings in person or wherever that you can relate with, especially at this point because you will eventually need clarity about your progress or should I say clarity with how you are progressing. Good luck with your practice. |
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| kulkarnn - 2005-12-23 2:59 PM
Dear Damien:
I do not think your above post has made your statements clearer. I feel it made the original posting more complex. I think that the problem is caused by usage of the word, 'ego'. In the classical yoga system, egotism must be removed, and at the end even pure ego must be overcome. So, there is no such a thing as using ego in Asanas, etc. in the general understanding. I think you are meaning something other than ego. Could you please restate your statement?
Sole identification with the ego must be removed but not the ego itself is the understanding I have. Ego is a tool used for the creation of individuality. So the definition I have of Ego is I am-ness or individuality. |
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| re: pointing out students in class.
i actually do this often, but not to compliment one student or another, but to demonstrate what they're doing to another student who is not getting it--particularly if it's something that i can't do.
but, this encourages a dialogue between students. one of my tenents of teaching is that i don't know everything and that a student's experience, expression, modification, etc can be extremely important and helpful to the class as a whole. I encourage my students to help each other, to offer suggestions, and to practice together before/after class to help each other out.
this has lead to some interesting experiences in class. For example, new students are completely surrounded and totally encouraged by experienced students. In fact, experienced students will often move their mats closer to new students and throughout class offer them quite tips or demonstrations as well as encouragement. I've found that this has made classroom learning exponentionally better than classrooms where only one person's opinion matters.
I was thinking about this last nite after i taught my last class. That class is particularly fun and a particularly encouraging group. We worked on handstands (among other things), and as you knwo there are many ways to enter into hand stands. One student is good at 'getting up there' but kinda 'bananas' her body and then ends up in dhanurasana. Another student doesn't get her legs up, but can hold the straight torso. So, i had the straight torso student demonstrate and instruct to the banana-ed student. I then moved on to help a new student discover crow pose. So, those two experienced students taught each other--each one offering an element to the other. Then, after the newbie got into crow pose, i wandered back to those two doing hand stand and did downward dog so that the 'banana-ed' student could do a modified hand stand and gain instruction from the other student about whether or not her torso was aligned. Then, once aligned, i had her take one leg up, then the other, with the other student--not me--observing the allignment and offering the technique.
so, i don't know how this fits in with ego, but it seems to encourage people to share their experience, their 'tricks' and their modifications with each other. Now, both students are able to get into hand stand more easily, because they taught each other. And, another experienced student took care of the newbie by encouraging the crow pose after i left to help with hand stand.
Maybe my classroom is just strange. But, i do expect them to do homework--practice at home--where they can go into the more meditative aspects of the postures or whatever else they want to go into. I consider classroom time, learning time. I expect them to take the time to learn something new, share something that they learned, or something to this effect. It's what i love about teaching--the exchange of ideas.
And maybe this perspective will take the 'ego' out of being called out as a demonstrator. (i dunno). |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Certainly when teaching things like handstand it can be very helpful to use students to demo and their egos just have to deal with it  For starters, keeping yourself (the teacher) in the pose while talking can be a challenge and it is also pretty tough to point out areas in the back body that need attention while you are in the pose! But it is very instructive to have a couple of students who have different issues with a pose go into it while the class watches. I have seen quite a few "lightbulb" moments when the teacher points out a banana-style headstand or handstand and says "Mary, this is what you are doing," then gives the instructions to correct it. Mary can see how the other student works with the corrections then take that into her own pose, especially if she is a visual learner. And as I said, there is almost always something to correct in the other person's pose. The non-banana student probably has open shoulders but needs work on lengthening her inner legs to bring her feet into alignment or whatever. I don't think most people have problems with this (except when the teacher goes into a LOT of detail while they are desparately trying to hold a decent handstand!) - it is the constant pointing out of one individual as the "good" example that is embarrassing and counter-productive to their own practice. |
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| Dear Damien:
You wrote: Sole identification with the ego must be removed but not the ego itself is the understanding I have. Ego is a tool used for the creation of individuality. So the definition I have of Ego is I am-ness or individuality.
If your understanding of ego is I-am ness, then it is created. Ego is called Asmita in Sanskrit. Asmi=Iam, and ta=ness. So you are correct. Now, Soul (NOT sole, As... in BBB's words!) identification with ego removal is Removal of ego, which results in Self Realization or Soul Realization. Once, the identification is removed, there is NO more Ego, because all understanding comes only by Sole getting identified with that thing. However, when one is performing the poses, they do need Ego as you correctly wrote, in that you are not removing ego, but using it for a pose. Later, when one gets interested in meditation, ego is used for meditation, and then when it medition is matured, the ego is used to remove the mind, and then only ego remains. When the ego itself is removed, then self realization takes place.
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| kulkarnn - 2005-12-24 10:37 AM
Dear Damien:
You wrote: Sole identification with the ego must be removed but not the ego itself is the understanding I have. Ego is a tool used for the creation of individuality. So the definition I have of Ego is I am-ness or individuality.
If your understanding of ego is I-am ness, then it is created. Ego is called Asmita in Sanskrit. Asmi=Iam, and ta=ness. So you are correct. Now, Soul (NOT sole, As... in BBB's words!) identification with ego removal is Removal of ego, which results in Self Realization or Soul Realization. Once, the identification is removed, there is NO more Ego, because all understanding comes only by Sole getting identified with that thing. However, when one is performing the poses, they do need Ego as you correctly wrote, in that you are not removing ego, but using it for a pose. Later, when one gets interested in meditation, ego is used for meditation, and then when it medition is matured, the ego is used to remove the mind, and then only ego remains. When the ego itself is removed, then self realization takes place.
Yes asmita was the word I had in mind for ego. I think the current understanding I have about Self realisation is greatly influenced by sri aurobindo. I believe that his conviction was that Ego once realised for what it is then it can be correctly used. Cannot one be Self realised and also use Ego as a tool for operating in the world of duality?
In any event the discussion I intended here was how do people deal with ego when they practise asana. I would also be interested how it affects them in the practise of pranayama.
BG 6.34 For fickle is the mind, O krishna, unruly, overpowering and stubborn; to curb it is, I think, as hard as to curb the wind
Edited by damien 2005-12-23 8:47 PM
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| Yes, Dear Damien. Shree Aurobindo was self realized, no doubt. And, yes. Ego is the last step before self realization, and therefore one knows the real nature of pure ego before one gets self realization, that is goes into a Samadhi stage which has NO ego. However, during Samadhi state, the person is oblivious of the world, and is NOT in the world mentally. He/She is in the self. When the Samadhi state is left and one again comes back in the world, the ego reappears. Thus, all worldly activites whether good or bad, whether Yoga Exercise or otherwise are always having ego included in them. When a person is self realized, one is supposed to have ripe ego or pure ego, and one can use it in such a way that one does not forget the true nature of the self. In short, when one is using pure ego after self realization, one is doing activities mainly for the benefit of others, and one behaves as if one is acting a role, but actually knows that it is only a role. It is like an actor who may be acting as one particular role, but knows that he/she is not the person whose role one is playing, but the real person is the Actor. In other words, the ego of the selfrealized person does not create new karma to be exhausted later.
Coming to your question, when one is performing yoga exercise one has to use ego in the such a way that one does not become egotistic, one understands the yoga exercise is meant for obtaining health of body and mind, that is basically cleaning body and mind, and it is NOT an end in itself, and one should progress towards spirituality, that is the usage of pure ego during Yoga Exercise including Pranayama. Usage of pure ego in this way also shall remove certain distractions caused by one's wrong assumption that one is Body or one is Mind, which assumptions will limit one's ability to progress. When one assumes that one is Self, the ability to perform actions with and over body and mind shall be more efficient. When one has only pure ego, all body actions and mind actions should be possible, but one may not perform them. In fact, one shall use that status towards spirituality and NOT body/mind actions.
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| Thanks neal. Your above post fits in with my current understanding of things.
I suppose that which is more relevant than ego in my current practice is the observation and calming of the fluctuations of the mind. |
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Ego in yoga
