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TCM and animal welfare
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anya sharvani
Posted 2005-10-18 6:50 PM (#34668)
Subject: TCM and animal welfare


I have a question about TCM and I know many people here swear by it.  I have been having an issue with my hammy, (among other things )for a while now, and my friend recommended I see a certain TCM practioner.

I know that bear bile(harvested in a terribly inhumane way) and tiger parts are sometimes used in this practice, how widespead is it? is this only in china or here too? I would rather not waste my time or go to this person and feel unsure about something they gave me...

any advice?

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Cyndi
Posted 2005-10-18 7:18 PM (#34669 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare



Expert Yogi

Posts: 5098
5000252525
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
Anya,

Yes, that is a practice that is used in China. My TCMD says there are many other alternatives to Bear Bile, Shark's Fin and so on. Having that said, not all Chinese people are in agreement with those inhumane treatments of animals and find other alternative methods and herbs. I know a Chinese lady Doc who prescribes these very poisonous dried centipedes for some of her healing tonics.

I doubt very seriously you would need something that extreme, therefore I wouldn't worry too much about it. Besides, you could always ask them first and tell them you don't want animal parts in your tonic elixer, Once my TCMD gave my daughter a weeks supply of herbs to cook. In the mixture of dried herbs were these bugs - they looked like dried grasshoppers and for all I know, they probably were, It was so hard for me to get her to drink those herbs, but she did. She told everyone I was making her drink bugs, it was too funny,
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anya sharvani
Posted 2005-10-18 9:32 PM (#34677 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


Thanks Cyndi. i don't know anything about TCM, and am trying to research as much as i can about the herbs & treatments they use before I go.

I don't want to drink bugs! blaeargh! *dances around*

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*Fifi*
Posted 2005-10-20 3:28 PM (#34807 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


The majority of Chinese herbs are plant based. Bear gall bladder bile and any part of an endangered species is illegal in the US (and probably Canada). I'm sure one could find illegal Chinese "herbs" if one knew the "right" people and was willing to cough up tons and tons of $$$$. Tigers aren't cheap.

A good TCM/Acupuncturist is trained to know which herbs (and that can be plant, mineral or animal parts) to use as a substitute. It's true, there are a number of insects used in traditional Chinese medicinal teas. At my school we were required to inform the patient about EVERYTHING they will consume from us - none of this "I am the doctor and I know what's best for the patient so f*** patient rights" bulls***. You have a right as a patient to know exactly what you're being given as medicine. Also, vegetarian patients require special consideration since bugs and bile fall into the non-vegetarian category.

Want to know some unusual "herbs" we used in our student clinic? Centipede, cicadas, earthworms (which are great for the lungs), bat feces (I will never give that one to anybody), cock roaches (or this one, ick), gypsum, mother of pearl and hematite.

As a practitioner, I use a brand of herbs distributed from an American company. Sorry to say but I trust their standards better than what comes out of China. Some Chinese patent medicines have traces of arsenic, lead or mercury. Hopefully the contaminated stuff gets pulled off the shelves by the FDA before too many people take them.

Now, about milking bears - it's really awful. The Chinese will put a bear in a little cage so he's bent over and catheterize his gall bladder to withdraw bile continuously. This is another reason I buy from local herb distributors. It's my way to boycott.

[I know lots of people have a bias of who makes the better TCM doc/acupuncturist. I've have fabulous results from an ancient Chinese doctor who didn't speak much English. I trust him completely with my health. I have also had really excellent results from American lesbian practitioners. I know sexual orientation doesn't make a difference in capability but gay women seem to include the importance of patient rights and respect for the patient in the treatments I've had from them. I feel like female practitioners with young children aren't really 100% focused. I always feel like I'm getting 3/4 of a treatment. Just my experience.]
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-10-20 3:33 PM (#34808 - in reply to #34807)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare



Expert Yogi

Posts: 5098
5000252525
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
I don't know Fifi, Bat Guano is great for my tomato and flowering plants...been using it for years, lots of nutrition in it,
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*Fifi*
Posted 2005-10-20 5:35 PM (#34818 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


Yes, I would take it but can you imagine defending giving someone bat s*** in court? Lawyers would be all over me like white on rice!

I would take a lot of things that I am cautious of giving to patients. One of my good acu-friends in school said "If it doesn't taste like sugar or feel like sex then Americans aren't interested". It's true. Thus, many Americans will be doomed to below average health.

I treat a lot of strippers with back pain (they wear 7" heels!) and they can't be cupped due to the marks it leaves behind. Apparently, strippers can't have any marks on their bodies (except for beautiful tattoos). I know in China doctors will burn the skin of a person with a stick of moxa to make them well. That's not legal in the US either.
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*Fifi*
Posted 2005-10-20 5:38 PM (#34819 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


By the way, Anya, I recommend HellerWork for your hammies. It's so good. I've been on a Hellerwork high for months now. It's sort of like Rolfing and I'm sure there's veterans out there that can explain it throurouly (sp? I can never spell that word right).

Let us know what you do!
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anya sharvani
Posted 2005-10-20 9:45 PM (#34830 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


*Fifi*: thanks for your input. I can't seem to find anything on Hellerwork around here, or any alternative med. practitioners.

My MT is doing wonders, but i think of massage as outside work and I feel like i wanted some inside work too. My doctor recommended cortisone shots, which I WILL NOT do.

My friend is a Master Herbalist but I am not getting too much relief from that. I may try acupuncture first and see how that goes. It's an expence as I can't seem to find anyone local and have to drive a couple of hours away.If you have any good links please post them.

Thanks again. and i am not drinking bat poop. worse than bugs. yuck.

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*Fifi*
Posted 2005-10-20 9:52 PM (#34832 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


Yes, massage therapy is best for sore muscles. If you went to your doctor about it then it must be more than sore muscles you're feeling. I'm guessing you don't go to the doctor very often b/c you're in good health. If pain in the back of your legs sent you to the doc then the pain must be accompanied with numbness? tingling? weakness? Something else made you seek medical intervention besides muscle ache. You're smart to leave the cortisone to the very last resort.

Where do you live? I can do a search for you and get back to you.
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anya sharvani
Posted 2005-10-20 10:19 PM (#34837 - in reply to #34832)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


*Fifi*: that would be great. I am currently in NJ but i will be out in Oregon in about 3 months, where they have a huge alternative med community. yay!

I tore my hamstring attachment (I don't advise ever doing this. it's like being shot. in the ass.) about a year ago, and I kept reinjuring it. the scar tissue has built up and since it never healed properly my ROM has been decreased and now my IT band is starting to tighten up.

 the massage therapy is really helping though. my MT works really deep and i usually get relief for a week. I was just hoping that I could compliment the MT with something else, you know, keep the healing streak alive. It's costing me a small fourtune, but i really need this fixed. I will try anything (well, except bugs and guano)

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*Fifi*
Posted 2005-10-21 12:36 PM (#34862 - in reply to #34668)
Subject: RE: TCM and animal welfare


Ugh! That sounds painful. Oregon has acupuncture schools which means they have student clinics which means you can get acupuncture at a (much) cheaper rate. Plus, student clinics are supervised and students are given a longer amount of time to spend with each patient.

Did you have surgery to reattach things? Scar tissue is a funny thing b/c it's designed to be super strong but it often gets in the way (i.e. limited ROM). A naturpath created a systemic enzyme called Vitalzyme for his wife who has MS. He designed it to reduce the amount of scar tissue building up in her body. Another acupuncturist turned me onto it. I just get it off the Internet.

I did a Hellerworker search in NJ and OR and found a limited selection. There's one in Princeton and one in Kingston, NJ. In Oregon there's one in Corvallis, one in Bend and one in Medford. Acupuncture can definitely help, too. I'm sure there's lots more acupuncturists in Oregon than Hellerworkers. Still, if you can afford both then I'd do it.

Good luck on your quest~
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