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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | This from CNN. I decided to post this here for philosophical reasons. Anyone ever noticed this happening around you?? We were talking about this very thing while I was visiting my friend's mountain store today. Very interesting topic on human behavior and technology and stuff.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans' fast-paced, high-tech existence has taken a toll on civility.
From road rage in the morning commute to high decibel cell-phone conversations that ruin dinner out, men and women behaving badly have become the hallmark of a hurry-up world. An increasing informality -- flip-flops at the White House, even -- combined with self-absorbed communication gadgets and a demand for instant gratification have strained common courtesies to the breaking point.
"All of these things lead to a world with more stress, more chances for people to be rude to each other," said Peter Post, a descendent of etiquette expert Emily Post and an instructor on business manners through the Emily Post Institute in Burlington, Vermont.
In some cases, the harried single parent has replaced the traditional nuclear family, and there's little time to teach the basics of polite living, let alone how to hold a knife and fork, according to Post.
A slippage in manners is obvious to many Americans. Nearly 70 percent questioned in an Associated Press-Ipsos poll said people are ruder than they were 20 or 30 years ago. The trend is noticed in large and small places alike, although more urban people -- 74 percent -- report bad manners, then do people in rural areas, 67 percent.
Peggy Newfield, founder and president of Personal Best, said the generation that came of age in the times-a-changin' 1960s and 1970s are now parents who don't stress the importance of manners, such as opening a door for a female.
So it was no surprise to Newfield that those children wouldn't understand how impolite it was to wear flip-flops to a White House meeting with the president -- as some members of the Northwestern women's lacrosse team did in the summer.
A whopping 93 percent in the AP-Ipsos poll faulted parents for failing to teach their children well.
"Parents are very much to blame," said Newfield, whose Atlanta-based company started teaching etiquette to young people and now focuses on corporate employees. "And the media."
From parents to absent 'role models'
Sulking athletes and boorish celebrities grab the headlines while television and Hollywood often glorify crude behavior.
"It's not like the old shows 'Father Knows Best,"' said Norm Demers, 47, of Sutton, Massachusetts. "People just copy it. How do you change it?" Demers would like to see more family-friendly television but isn't holding his breath.
Nearly everyone has a story of the rude or the crude, but fewer are willing to fess up to boorish behavior themselves.
Only 13 percent in the poll would admit to making an obscene gesture while driving; only 8 percent said they had used their cell phones in a loud or annoying manner around others. But 37 percent in the survey of 1,001 adults questioned August 22-23 said they had used a swear word in public.
Yvette Sienkiewicz, 41, a claims adjustor from Wilmington, Delaware, recalled in frustration how a bigger boy cut in front of her 8-year-old son, as he waited in line to play a game at the local Chuck E. Cheese.
"It wasn't my thing to say something to the little boy," said Sienkiewicz, who remembered that the adult accompanying the child never acknowledged what he had done. In the AP-Ipsos poll, 38 percent said they have asked someone to stop behaving rudely.
More and more, manners are taught less and less.
Carole Krohn, 71, a retired school bus driver in Deer Park, Washington, said she has seen children's behavior deteriorate over the years, including one time when a boy tossed a snowball at the back of another driver's head. In this litigious society, she argued, a grown-up risks trouble correcting someone else's kid.
One solution for bad behavior "is to put a kid off in the middle of the road. Nowadays all people want to do is sue, to say you're to blame, get you fired," Krohn said.
Discontent grows
Krohn, who often greeted students by name and with a hearty "good morning," once was asked by a child if she got tired of offering pleasantries.
Sienkiewicz, whose job requires hours in a car, said she tries to avoid rush-hour traffic because of drivers with a me-first attitude. The most common complaint about rudeness in the poll was aggressive or reckless driving, with 91 percent citing it as the most frequent discourtesy.
Margaret Hahn-Dupont, a 39-year-old law professor from Oradell, New Jersey, noticed that some of her students showed little respect for authority and felt free to express their discontent and demand better grades.
Close on the heels of the baby boomers are the affluent teens and young adults who have known nothing but the conveniences of computers and cell phones, devices that take them away from face-to-face encounters and can be downright annoying in a crowd.
"They got a lot of things and feel entitled to get a lot of things," said Hahn-Dupont.
Bernard F. Scanlon, 79, of Sayville, New York, would like to see one railroad car set aside for cell phone users to ensure peace and quiet for the rest. Amtrak has taken a stab at that by banning cell phones and other loud devices in one car of some trains, especially on chatty Northeast and West Coast routes.
But if those trains are sold out, the Quiet Car service is suspended and anything goes.
How rude.
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| I read this today as well. I definitely think people are getting more inconsiderate. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| I have never mentioned cell phones in class but this week there were a few that rang so now I have to get tough. Bad enough to have an accidental ring where the student runs to shut it off but the one who picked up and answered (in the change area but well within hearing) made me a bit cross. So now it is phones off unless the future of the free world is in your hands for the next 90 minutes. And if it is, and your phone rings - take it out of the room!  |
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| I cannot stand when people are chronically late to class for no reason. I consider myself pretty flexible, for example: one student is consistently late because she drops her daughter off at school, that's ok. one guy comes straight from work, OK too. they mention it to me and it's all good. they wait until we've started moving to come in and set up. but i have one student who "just can't seem to get moving". she walks (clomps in is more like it)in during the begginning meditation, loudly flips out her mat and is seemly oblivious to the disturbance she creates. she also once attemped to EAT A BAGEL while on her mat at the beginning of class. (during the meditation) |
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| anya,
thank goodness she is taking yoga. so much room for improvement!
namaste,
kate |
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| I would agree that politeness is on the decline, but I also think it depends on where you are. One of the things that really bothered me about Cali was the rudeness of the people. The midwest seems to be a lot politer, which I enjoy, but there are trade offs. People in cali are a lot less worried about superficial nonsense, while people in cincy are more likely to give you a dirty look for making a minor social mistake.
Also to some degree it seems to be a matter of whether you want to be knifed in the front or the back. In ruder society it seems like people say nasty stuff directly to the person, and get it over with. In "politer" society it's much more likely to that they'll engage in gossip, and other backstabbing.
It also seems to hang on how long people have to deal with each other. In a society with less mobility, the people tend to treat each other with more civility since they need to remain on good terms. In a society with more mobility, the people tend to be ruder because there's less consequence. You also need to be more direct with people who don't have years to understand what it means when you have look X on your face.
As far as the cell phone thing goes, the local studio has a ban, and has had one for years. I don't even bring mine, because they are disruptive, and everybody understands that, so it's not a big deal.
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| Cell phone bans in studios are wonderful in theory -but what do you do when the INSTRUCTOR'S phone rings during class? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Mine has never actually rung during class but there have been times where I found it was on when I was absolutely sure it was off, so it could have happened  Now I check it obsessively before I start to teach. Honestly, the usual response is "OMG, I was sure it was off. Sorry!" and then a quick dash to turn it off. That's what voice mail is for, right? |
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| Yeah, accidents do happen. The one time I didn't turn my phone off in one of my classes at school the darn thing rang...Now I am obsessive and turn it to vibrate, and then turn it off, just in case the ghosts inside it turn it back on...At least that way it won't ring out, which is good because depending on who is calling you will get Sugar Magnolia, Where the Streets Have No Name, or the University of South Carolina fight song!  |
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| Oddly enough we don't have too many go off during class. I really can't remember the last time, but they also have a number of very polite signs reminding people to turn off their phones. |
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| I believe it is a matter of intent and awareness. If a person is aware that his or her act is inconsiderate to others and does nothing to change that behavior, then there is are questions of intent unless that person is in a situation where it is really hard to change that behavior to begin with.
When there is a general unawareness of the act being offensive then eventually that person will figure out the behavior is uncool or whatever and modify it. Otherwise someone needs to say something.
General apathy is what the story is talking about mostly. I have noticed the same thing but also realize that there is probably a balance somewhere. I think that people do want to be kind to others but the selfish me first thinking ends up taking over.
It is somewhat of a "purging" taking place within this society. We are growing in some ways but at the same time detoxing with certain ways of treating and relating to others. Hopefully, once the purging cycle has run it's course we will have grown and developed with all new lessons to learn or relearn. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| There is a chain of events here, really or perhaps a chain of attitudes. The generations before mine (I am 50 now) respected and revered authority figures, not for any inate goodness or wisdom those authority figures had, but because it was "right" or "proper." Both of those generations were involved in world wide wars and it was important for them to learn to follow orders, right or wrong. In the 60's, my generation reacted strongly to that because we saw that those in power were not always right, not always good and not always deserving of those positions, Richard Nixon being the poster child for that So we brought up our kids to question authority right from the get-go (and had some child-raising issues because of that!) and they took it to heart. Is it any wonder they have become more self-centered (as a group, of course) and less interested in the feelings of others? I think that as this generation matures and moves into teaching their own children, there will be a middle path, based more on respecting those who deserve and command respect and learning how to get along with and tolerate those who don't rather than just flipping everybody the bird whenever they feel like it. This is certainly how I see things going with my kids and their friends. When they were younger it was an attitude of "he's an idiot, why should I be nice to him?" but now it is more "he's an idiot but he's my boss. How can I respect the position and get along with him civilly so we can both do our jobs?" It is a more yogic approach - not being emotionally involved but cultivating friendliness anyway. I hope so, anyway...
A little off-topic but still in the right ball park, I think.  |
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| Yeah, I think there's also a certain degree of ignorance, willfull or not. It's just not valued, and in some cases rightfully so. Who really cares which fork/spoon is the right one to start eating with? OTOH, there are some that are more important, like not interrupting, or not dominating the conversation.
So there's definitely a matter of intention, and attitude. Frankly, I find it much more refreshing to deal with people who are a bit impolite, and sincere, than people who follow the exact rule, but have no intention behind it.
So I think Glenda is right also. We're going through a rough patch, while we attempt to sort out which things are useful, and which aren't. There's also a fundamental difference in that a lot of the top-down structure is being abolished, since it's nolonger necessary. When there were 50 people working under a foreman, they pretty much needed to fall in line to make thing efficent. Now that there are three guys under a foreman, doing really complex tasks, they need to have a more one-on-one style of communication, which is much less formal and sometimes less polite.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Now that there are three guys under a foreman, doing really complex tasks, they need to have a more one-on-one style of communication
And risking pushing this even more OT, this is where video gaming comes in. Apparently researchers say gaming is creating people with exaclty the skills needed in the current workplace. Go figure! |
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| tourist - 2005-10-18 12:15 AM Now that there are three guys under a foreman, doing really complex tasks, they need to have a more one-on-one style of communication And risking pushing this even more OT, this is where video gaming comes in. Apparently researchers say gaming is creating people with exaclty the skills needed in the current workplace. Go figure!
What, the ability to jump 20' in the air, spin around, and shoot three people dead? 
There's probably some truth to it, though it sounds like a sensationalist article to me. Sure it gets people involved with computers, teaches them to think on their feet, and work as a team, but I think you could have also gotten that from playing football, etc with the local kids.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Well, according to the researcher I heard interviewed, the unique quality of video games is that they teach kids that there is always a solution to a problem and that it often takes a creative or unconventional approach to find the solution. Because the games give unlimited chances to learn the solution, kids learn that if they keep trying (the computer does not judge them when the "fail") they can succeed eventually. The group games also teach them to work with the individuals on their team to their best advantage and find each player's strength.
It was indeed a pretty liberal view, but this was a guy from the business world who said they are finding themselves with 23 year old kids with masses of confidence and the ability to jump in and start understanding the ins and outs of business strategy without years of learning.
I am fascinated with the unintended or unexpected consequences of new technologies. I love that grannies are responsible for so much internet use. From baby photos to online bridge playing, the grandma in out family LOVES her internet! Who knew?  |
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| I play a LOT of video games, though that has been declining over the years. While it is true that they teach some problem solving, a lot of it seems pretty linear, compared to the old old text based adventure games of 20 years ago. Hadn't given much thought to the lack of judgement of failure, but it's an interesting idea. Video games also seem to teach a lot of linear thinking in general. Most of the first person shooters have levels that are really more like cattle shutes than maps, and teach that violence is the answer to most (read all) things. OTOH, the tomb raider and Prince of Persia games have a lot of interesting jumping/spatial puzzles that do require some problem solving.
I'm also not all that impressed with some online games building teamwork. I've played on a number FPS servers, and generally there's a very lone-wolf attitude to most of them. People also don't really have that much time to get to know each other, and learn each others strengths. Add in the anonymous nature of the net, the ability to watch other people screw up, and people can be very very harsh online. (Which goes back to the main topic, now long discarded. )
OTOH, the guys who do show a bit of teamwork really clean up on some of the games, so it is encouraged to some degree. Also the new multi-player online role playing games are really great for getting people together. I used to play World of Warcraft for a while, partially because a lot of my buddies where involved. A lot of the game play is directly geared towards team events. So being part of a group is a huge help in the game, and part of the reason I continued to play even after it got pretty boring.
On really insidious effect of playing video games is they tend to stiffle imagination. While you can do just about anything you can concieve of in real life, in video games you're limited by what the designers had the imagination and inclination to include. Since most are pressed for time and resources, this is pretty limited, so kids are learning to turn off their imaginations to some extent.
They also tend to stiffle social interaction, since most game require people to use the keyboard to communicate. While I can type about 60-80 WPM, it's still slower than I can talk, and in order to do it, I have to stop doing whatever else I was engaged in. In a lot of games, this means that you're going to get killed, taken out, whatever. This is improving slowly, partially due to inclusion of better microphones, and voice transmission software built into the games, but it's still a problem.
Anyway, I still think that most kids are better off playing with the local kids than playing video games.
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The Decline of Manners in US
