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 ****** OffModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Philosophy and Religion | Message format |
booga |
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| Bay Guy |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 2479    Location: A Blue State | |||
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| There is no doubt that Hinduism is rooted in yogic philosophy. People can try to divorce yogasana from the other 7 limbs and sell it as whatever they want to, but it is what it is. What makes her so horrible is that she is profiting off of the very traditions that she is denouncing. But, she's an opportunist and religious intolerance sells these days. Then again, I hear that her one-woman show is wonderful!  | |||
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| Cyndi |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 5098  Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Here we go again,  Booga, I posted this exact thing several months ago to the Philosophy section. Although, I found it more amusing than you did,  Let it go, roll it off your back. Just remember, we are in America and we have Freedom of Religion...or is that Freedom from Religion, Anyway, don't worry about it. There's so many people doing Yoga in America that we don't have to give this any energy...besides, remember the saying, "Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but Words can never hurt me", Remember that?? It's all talk. Always, Christians are always going behind the preacher's back to dabble in other things, why?? because their religion doesn't work for them, they get tired of hearing preaching and NO TEACHING and eventually they end up doing something alternative which eventually leads them to something like - YOGA!!! | ||
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| it's interesting because one of my clients just read an article recently about hindus being upset that christians and non-hindus were teaching yoga or using yoga outside of it's context. she asked me about it, and i said that there are groups of people like that in every religion--various forms of fundamentalists--who get stirred up about things for no reason. i see yoga--whether it's the philosophy, mantra process, the cleansing practices, or the asanas or whatever else--as a series of disciplines that can be applied to any religious/spiritual practice. LIke prayer, yoga doesn't belong to just one religion. Like ritual worship, yoga does not belong to just one religion. It is a spiritual discipline that can be used by any. Like meditation, yoga does not belong to just one religion. One cannot deny it's context, but the context doesn't mean that the discipline can't be applied elsewhere. The Vedic tradition gave us this wonderful spiritual technology. I think that should be acknowledged and even honored or valued. BUt it doesn't mean that to practice yoga, one must also practice vedic spirituality or be a hindu, jain, buddhist, etc. I think that yoga should be approached as a spiritual discipline, but to which spiritual belief system is really a matter of personal choice. Similarly, the context of confession in the western catholic tradition came out of the irish-catholic monastic tradition. Yet today, millions of non-monastic, non-irish, and even non-catholic individuals participate in this sacred, spiritual discipline regardless of their particular religious or spiritual beliefs. So, while the context was rather specific, the disciplines can be applied in other contexts. similarly, it is my understanding from knowing hindus, jains, buddhists, etc, that they have a general belief of "be and do whatever you want, spiritually. if it works for you and makes you happy, then it works for me." For them, if you worship Jesus while doing yoga, it's just as good as worshipping Ganeshe, Kali, Green Tara, or the Divine Wind as far as i can tell--and from what i've been told. Whatever speaks to you as a deity image can be accessed through any number of spiritual disciplines--and yoga may be an appropriate discipline to consider. on a bit more thought in regards to this woman and her information, there is one thing that i like about it--she is applying it to a spiritual discipline. She's taking yoga asana (and perhaps breathing techniques) and applying it specifically to her tradition. I think that this is a lot better--perhaps a slight step up--from those people who extract the asana purely for physical benefit and divorce it from any spiritual aspects. I think that yoga asana, as well as other yoga practices, are inherently spiritual and meant to develop spiritual insight. The purpose of yoga--all aspects of it--is God Realization. To divorce yoga from this is a much greater "travisty" than to divorce it from it's religious context and apply it to another, IMO. Of course, in a perfect world, everyone would be open minded enough to embrace the history and tradition and context of a practice as well as applying it to their own spiritual beliefs (in a comparitive religion sort of way), but alas that enlightenment hasn't come about yet. I'm sure it will in time. I mean, some cultures have been behaving like that for centuries (i'm thinking vedic, shinto, etc)! does this make any sense?  | |||
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| Cyndi |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 5098 Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | zoebird - 2005-09-22 8:23 AM The Vedic tradition gave us this wonderful spiritual technology. I think that should be acknowledged and even honored or valued. BUt it doesn't mean that to practice yoga, one must also practice vedic spirituality or be a hindu, jain, buddhist, etc. I think that yoga should be approached as a spiritual discipline, but to which spiritual belief system is really a matter of personal choice. Similarly, the context of confession in the western catholic tradition came out of the irish-catholic monastic tradition. Yet today, millions of non-monastic, non-irish, and even non-catholic individuals participate in this sacred, spiritual discipline regardless of their particular religious or spiritual beliefs. So, while the context was rather specific, the disciplines can be applied in other contexts. Ah yes, the vedic tradition gave us this wonderful spiritual technology.....these so called christians and whoever are not being respectful, they have abused it, they have mocked it, they have used to fit their criteria and manipulated it to mold it into what they deem it should be to control others...hmmm?? Sounds like BOGA to me, Sorry Booga, not you, better get that name changed, What really blows my brain about this, is the fact that if their religion is so wonderful and taught them everything they need, i.e. Catholism, Baptist, Methodist, why would they need to practice Yoga?? They really should just go ride a bike or take up jogging. Anyway, I'm sure this is going to start something up but this is only an observation. When I came to Eastern Philosophy I had long thrown in the towel when it came to religion. Religion was forced upon me as a child and I vowed then that when I grew up, I would find my path..and I did. I came to the Eastern Philosophy because it supported who I was and who I had become..and my karmic connections of course. I was NOT attached to or connected to in any way shape or form to any Western Religion or belief's. This has been extremely important factor in my spiritual journey because if I were attached to those belief's or practices, it would have hindered and been a major distraction to my practice. Thank God I was able to let it go!!! All of it. | ||
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442  | Gandhi apparently said something to the effect that he would be happy to work with Christians if only he could find any who really embodied their own ideals and religion. The thing is that she obviously got caught up in "new age" practices that were not safe, not properly taught and that did not encourage her to practice her own religion in a non-judgemental and loving way. Some would say it was not real yoga. Sad.  | ||
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Expert Yogi Posts: 5098 Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | tourist - 2005-09-22 10:07 AM Gandhi apparently said something to the effect that he would be happy to work with Christians if only he could find any who really embodied their own ideals and religion. ( EXACTLY! But, now a days, I am seeing this happen in other cultures too. I'm seeing it happen in Hindu's, Buddhists and Asians. They really don't embody their own ideals and religion, they are trying to be like American...to me that is what is truly sad and unfortunately, these guided souls are being misled,  I cringe when I'm around some Indian & Nepalis people here in America and the way they act against their own culture. I do believe however, because of their ingrained culture..especially Hindus and Buddhists, they will as Bruce say's, eventually "See the light", Just when they will is not very clear and maybe it won't happen in this lifetime. But, it's not a bad idea to experience another culture so you can see for yourself, it's just scary as he11 when they start converting! These Christians going into India and bribing people with money and nice food & clothes, manipulating their minds based on material things is sooo ridiculous. I enjoy reading when the Indian government throws them out! | ||
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| tigrsunam |
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| Bay Guy |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 2479 Location: A Blue State | |||
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| Mitch |
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What really blows my brain about this, is the fact that if their religion is so wonderful and taught them everything they need, i.e. Catholism, Baptist, Methodist, why would they need to practice Yoga?? They really should just go ride a bike or take up jogging. i see this in two ways: First, on the one hand, if they're just looking for the physical aspects and not seeing it as a spiritual discipline, then jogging or whatever is no different. a good plan of physical fitness, stretching, and weight bearing exercise should 'do the trick'--or hey, Pilates! But then, what's interesting about some people is that these exercises also become deeply meditative--so there's this mind-body-spirit thing happening, even without yoga. Second, i tend to think of religions--all of them--being in a constant state of revelation and evolution. right now, i'm reading this fascinating text by David R. Kinsley called "Hindu GOddesses" that gives the cultural history and meaning of various goddessses. What is interesting is that a given goddess starts out with one representation, that changes slightly over time, and then changes again, and then again to the modern idea and worship practices. The same is true of all of these various religions. What is interesting about the information about Sri-Laksmi (which i recently read again, it's chapter 1), is that she becomes an intercessory figure in some parts of the hindu tradition around 1000-1100 CE--shortly after Mary, mother of Jesus takes an intercessory position to God the Father. In the book, there are descriptions about Vishnu the Father, being stern and wanting or needing to punish his followers, followed y depictions of how followers then prayed or worshipped Laksmi in order to beg for an intercessory action to recieve the mercy and grace of Vishnu. Now, i'm not saying that this wasn't a naturally independent arising or that this concept of intercessory activities of wife/consort goddessses didn't exist before this particular manifestation of Laksmi, but it is interesting that Laksmi--a queen of heaven so to speak--takes on that role in certain aspects of the hindu tradition after it started with Mary. So perhaps it was a good idea that got flipped to a new context. In this way, i think that the sharing of particular disciplines across cultures is a way that religions grow. There is evidence, for example, that there are hellenistic and vedic qualities in Jesus's teachings simply because he lived at a place of crossroads. Judaism has changed over time, and has included and excluded various practices because of these outside influences of ideas, traditions, and even spiritual disciplines. I do not necessarily think that one religion is whole or complete. In fact, i think they they are all incomplete, and i see no reason why a person can't take good from one, add it to another to inform their own practices and spiritual development. But, i also recognize the importance that many teachers have mentioned--that it is difficult to diligently follow multiple paths. IN this, i seek that concept of integration, of bringing things together in a cohesive fashion. THen, there is only one path--an integrated path. One thing that confuses me, though, which is why i go to my teachers at the gurukalam and the local hindu temple with such questions, is how easy is it to be devoted to many gods and goddesses? each one has so many ways of worshipping, things that need to be done at certain times of the year and what not. . .and add to this saints and teachers who have special things that need to be done to honor them--and it seems less cohesive than say, sikhism (which is considered closest to christianity in practice and belief). And yet people seem to integrate it into the 'ebb and flow' of life. anyway, just more questions, as always. Anyway, I'm sure this is going to start something up but this is only an observation. When I came to Eastern Philosophy I had long thrown in the towel when it came to religion. Religion was forced upon me as a child and I vowed then that when I grew up, I would find my path..and I did. I came to the Eastern Philosophy because it supported who I was and who I had become..and my karmic connections of course. I was NOT attached to or connected to in any way shape or form to any Western Religion or belief's. This has been extremely important factor in my spiritual journey because if I were attached to those belief's or practices, it would have hindered and been a major distraction to my practice. Thank God I was able to let it go!!! All of it. attachment to any belief hinders spirit-life, i've found. | |||
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| booga |
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| Bay Guy |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 2479 Location: A Blue State | |||
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Expert Yogi Posts: 2479 Location: A Blue State | |||
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