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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | I think that flying in TM is quite normal -- I go all over the place when I'm in that state... I am out of body as I do this, at least, so far as my mental state is concerned. However, I think that the idea that yogis develop the ability to fly in any physical sense is rubbish -- puranas, sutras, and other literature not withstanding. I will of course change my mind if I ever observe such a phenomenon. .. bg |
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| I agree with Brother BG that a miracle or miraculous power can only be completely believed ONLY when one has experienced it. The problems, however, are as follows:
- In Sutras, this power is supposed to be gotten when sanyama is mastered. And, only the one with Sanyama mastered can know whether power comes or not.
- When sanyama is mastered, it has to be used in the context of a particular power as described in the sutra.
kaayaakaashayoH sambandhasanyamaallughutuulasamaapatteshchaakaashagamanaM...
- And, one who has that power may not display it.
Now, if one wants to follow the sutras, one has to practice sanyama. One who practices sanyama has to trust in the sanyama.
And, then when one trusts in sanyama, one lands up in Trusting associated powers coming from sanyama.
Thus, in philosophy, and Yoga Practice based upon that: Trust, called Shraddhaa, is an essential element.
Bay Guy - 2007-05-31 9:50 PM
I think that flying in TM is quite normal -- I go all over the place when I'm in that state... I am out of body as I do this, at least, so far as my mental state is concerned. However, I think that the idea that yogis develop the ability to fly in any physical sense is rubbish -- puranas, sutras, and other literature not withstanding. I will of course change my mind if I ever observe such a phenomenon. .. bg |
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| Bay Guy - 2007-06-01 5:45 AM
jonnie - 2007-05-30 8:20 AM Exactly. I had to follow a lacto-vegetarian diet and abstain from alcohol, drugs and sexual relations (outside of marriage) for six months before my initiation as well as vowing to continue to abstain from them after as well. Jonathon uuuhhh ... I imagine that your wife is pleased that you abstain from extramarital sexual relations... ..bg
If I didn't, she would cut my head off 
What I meant was, that a condition to initiation was no sex outside of marriage, and at this time I wasn't married. |
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| I saw a show on this. The TM people said that they were only at the level of hopping. But it asked shouldn't Maharashi be at the level of flying. They showed them doing the hopping and it is just like how you would do it from a lotus position. You lean forward and start falling forward. Then you arch up and that makes you go off the ground and go forward.
It sounds to me that they read about it from old days and figure that some day they can do it also but it ain't happening. What is better than flyng is to feel perfect peace and limitless happiness. See the short article What is Enlightenment. |
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| It is possible to reduce one's karmic debt load in the dream state. Usually with the assistance of a true master.
True Master is truely not interested in doing this. True master may do it in a rare case, but does not do this as a regular practice.
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Generally I think you are right. However the master does not take on the karma of the chela/student by removing it but only 'directs it' in order to help the student remove all karma himself.
The dream worlds having more of the sound and light (of god) can be considered more real
than the physical reality .
http://eckankar.org/
I did not want to stray from the topic of this forum: 'Yogic Flying'
so I am wondering what the definition of Sanyama is in practical terms.
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| "I did not want to stray from the topic of this forum: 'Yogic Flying'
so I am wondering what the definition of Sanyama is in practical terms."
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Hello this is my first post. I would like to add some knowledge about main topic and repley ask about Samyama. So this is what I know.
Samyama is the finer tool (Yoga Sutras 3.4-3.6)
There is Dharana (concentration).
Concentration is the process of holding or fixing the attention of mind onto one object, place or aspect for long time without any distraction. Dharana is the sixth of the eight rungs.
There is Dhyana (meditation).
The repeated continuation, or uninterrupted stream of that one point of focus is called absorption in meditation (dhyana), and is the seventh of the eight steps.
There is Samadhi.
When only the essence of that object, place, or point shines forth in the mind, as if devoid even of its own form, that state of deep absorption is called deep concentration or Samadhi, which is the eighth rung.
NOW
The three processes of dharana, dhyana, and samadhi, when taken together on the same object, place or point is called Samyama.
DHARANA + DHYANA + SAMADHI = SAMYAMA
Its like focusing 3 lenses or 3 lasers into one perfect beam of light.
Through the mastery of that three-part process of samyama, the light of knowledge, transcendental insight, or higher consciousness (prajna) dawns, illumines, flashes, or is visible.
That three-part process of samyama is gradually applied to the finer planes, states, or stages of practice. It could be used on any psyhic powers to penetrate their true nature - and thus to gain counsiousness control about them.
By the mastery over udana, the upward flowing prana vayu, there is a cessation of contact with mud, water, thorns, and other such objects, and there ensues the rising or levitation of the body.
By Samyama on the relationship between the body and space (akasha) and by concentrating on the lightness of cotton, passage through space can be attained.
On making samyama on the relation between body and the space in which the body resides, and on making concentration on cottonlike substance called laghutool, one gets an ability to fly in the air.
Lord Krishna states that:
"For a sage who has conquered his senses, breathing and mind, who is self-controlled and always absorbed in meditation on Me, what mystic perfection could possibly be difficult to achieve?" (SB 11.15.32)
"on Me" means higher SELF (or union with GOD) with is an ultimate state of mind, full of light, radiating, shining, clear counsciousness, sharp like diamond razor - it is each one of us: oneness, moksza, buddhi, emptiness etc. |
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| Now from the other source about yogic flying.
iddhi
iddhi is a Buddhist term which refers to supernormal powers. These powers are physical, as opposed to mental (knowing the minds of others, etc...). It is also referred to as iddhipatihariya, literally meaning "power of transformation". These iddhis are mentioned throughout the pali canonical scripture.
Gautama Buddha describes the following as iddhi powers:
* Multiplying the body into many and into one again
* Invisibility
* Passing through solid objects as if space
* Ability to rise and sink in the ground as if in the water
* Walking on water as if land
* Flying through the skies
* Touching anything at any distance (even the moon or sun)
* Traveling to other worlds (like the world of Brahma) with or without the body
This is what Buddha said when talking with Ananda (this conversation is breath-taking):
"Ananda: It's awesome and marvelous that the Blessed One should have direct experience of going to the Brahma world by means of supranormal power with a mind-made body, and of going to the Brahma world by means of supranormal power with this very physical body, composed of the four great elements.
The Buddha: Tathagatas are both awesome, Ananda, and endowed with awesome qualities. They are both marvelous and endowed with marvelous qualities. Whenever the Tathagata merges his body with his mind and his mind with his body, and remains having alighted on the perception of ease and buoyancy with regard to the body, then his body becomes lighter, more pliant, more malleable, and more radiant.
Just as when an iron ball heated all day becomes lighter, more pliant, more malleable, and more radiant; in the same way, whenever the Tathagata merges his body with his mind and his mind with his body, and remains having alighted on the perception of ease and buoyancy with regard to the body, then his body becomes lighter, more pliant, more malleable, and more radiant.
Now, whenever the Tathagata merges his body with his mind and his mind with his body, and remains having alighted on the perception of ease and buoyancy with regard to the body, then his body rises effortlessly from the earth up into the sky. He then experiences manifold supranormal powers."
Buddha continued:
"Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one.
He appears. He vanishes.
He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, and mountains as if through space.
He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water.
He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land.
Sitting crosslegged he flies through the air like a winged bird.
With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful.
He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.
Just as a tuft of cotton seed or a ball of thistle down, lightly wafted by the wind, rises effortlessly from the earth up into the sky, in the same way, whenever the Tathagata concentrates his body in his mind and his mind in his body, and remains having alighted on the perception of ease and buoyancy, then his body rises effortlessly from the earth up into the sky. He then experiences manifold supranormal powers...even as far as the Brahma worlds." |
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| 1. IDDHIVIDHA - THE POWER OF TRANSFORMATION.
The Buddha said "If a monk should frame a wish as follows: "Let me exercise the various magical powers, let me being one become multiform., let me being multiform become one, let me become visible, become invisible, go without hindrance through walls, ramparts or mountains as if through air, let me rise and sink in the ground as if in the water, let me walk on the water as if on unyielding ground, let me travel through the air like a winged bird, let me touch and feel with my hand the moon and the sun mighty and powerful though they are, and let me go without my body even up to the Brahma world," then must he be perfect in the precepts (Sila), bring his thoughts to a state of quiescence (Samadhi), practice diligently the trances (Jhana), attain to insight (Prajna) and be frequenter to lonely places." |
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| And this all descriptions of technics and practices is just a begining on the way to attain yogic flying siddhi. Its just a theory of how to practice it, and now you must do the whole thing alone to gain it. I'am myself in that point. Not mere reasoning or intelectual understanding of this subject is enough to attain it - you have to go beoynt it and by deep insight experienced it on the highest level. This is the hardest. I wish I could find a teacher who can guide me well and teach me properly how to accomplish this goal. And I think I would be unable to learn it from someone who himself havent mastered it. Its the trust and believe case.
Edited by Planetar PL 2007-07-24 9:59 AM
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| Daniel:
Unless you post some pictures of people flying, this thread is pretty open to BS. |
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| Jumbo what do you mean by saying BS? What is it? Speak more cleary - not everyone has english as a first language (as you can see by my errors in writing - and I sorry for that).
And how I suppose to present you an picture here - how to add a picture? I could show you picture but for what purpouse? If you see picture you will request video. If you see video you will request to see it by your own eyes. And so on. That is the nature of ever doubting mind. Besides I need not proof you anythink  this is not a case of this topic - to proof someone somethink - as far as I understand.
If you asking me: Is levitation of body possible? I answer: Yes it is.
If you asking me: Is TM program could teach you how to levitate? I answer: I doubt. It is just hoping like a frog. It is a power too ... but a lesser one and undevelopment. Dont suggest about them and dont make a hasty resolution like: Levitation is true/fraud. To learn how to levitate you need extraordinary work inside your mind.
Edited by Planetar PL 2007-07-25 6:42 AM
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| Good answer
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| Perhaps it's possible to levetate or at least as Frank Sinatra sang:
Come fly with me, lets fly lets fly away
If you can use, some exotic booze
Theres a bar in far bombay
Come fly with me, well fly well fly away
Come fly with me, lets float down to peru
In lama land, theres a one man band
And hell toot his flute for you
Come fly with me, well float down in the blue
Once I get you up there, where the air is rarefied
Well just glide, starry eyed
Once I get you up there, Ill be holding you so near
You may here, angels cheer - because were together
Weather wise its such a lovely day
You just say the words, and well beat the birds
Down to acapulco bay
Its perfect, for a flying honeymoon - they say
Come fly with me, well fly well fly away
Good luck to you on your journey Danial |
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| Nice song - thanks Jambo - I wish you the same. |
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Yogic Flying
