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confessions
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easternsun
Posted 2005-07-19 8:47 AM (#27629)
Subject: confessions


i have gone back to full vegetarianism. i do still have some issues about milk products but for now i am still eating cheese and yoghurt.

on saturday, dh went out with a friend for dinner and i didnt feel like chopping vegetables. i decided to skip dinner and go straight to dessert. i made my first ever batch of vegetarian chocolate chip cookies!

the appetizer was raw cookie dough.
the main course was hot cookies straight from the oven.
dessert was broken cookie bits served over vanilla ice cream.

at about 11 p.m. i finally put the survivors into a air tight container and handed them to dh. i told him to hide them! i could not control myself.

has this ever happened to you?

in my own defense, i blame my hormones as i was one day off "the visit". what is a girl to do?
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anya sharvani
Posted 2005-07-19 10:02 AM (#27636 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


easternsun - 2005-07-19 8:47 AM

what is a girl to do?


eat the rest crumbled in a bowl with soy (or regular) milk on top, like cereal.

add banana if you really feel that guilty.yummo!

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laurajhawk
Posted 2005-07-19 3:26 PM (#27685 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


easternsun - 2005-07-19 6:47 AM

...has this ever happened to you? ....


Not *exactly*, but only because I never thought of putting 'em over ice cream for dessert.

-Laura
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-07-19 3:45 PM (#27688 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions



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Easternsun,

Oh yes, this has happened to me...like all the time.

When you go from meat diet to vegetarian..your body goes through that withdrawal thing. You start this craving of carbs cause your needing the energy from the protein...I think your body naturally starts wanting whatever it can get because you are depriving it of protein. Not to mention, you skipped dinner that evening and went for dessert....very naughty thing to do...not to mention you put yourself in the sugar mode. I'm sure someone will post a scientific explanation about this....but, Milk is really good for helping to replace the meat/protein issue...although, I have a really hard time digesting it. So, here in America we have milk called LACTAID. It is the greatest thing. As for cheese, just remember it is made with Rennet and that comes from the cow intenstine which is not considered vegetarian. There is veggie rennet products out there though and cottage cheese is a good place to start, even though it has rennet too. Horizon makes a nice cottage cheese without the rennet.

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jeansyoga
Posted 2005-07-19 3:55 PM (#27692 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


I feel your pain . . . it's about that time in my cycle too, and Sunday we went to go see the new Charlie & the Chocolate Factory movie. We got a large popcorn w/ butter, large Coke, Sno-Caps, and Sour Patch Kids! For just me and my husband!

You can't say we weren't in the spirit of the film!
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Posted 2005-07-19 4:35 PM (#27701 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


actually, a vegetarian diet isn't deprived of protien.

many vegetarian diets are too low in fat. meat contains more fat than vegetarian protien sources (beans, fruit, veggies, grains, and eggs and milk for ovo/lactos), so many people don't feel satisifed or satiated after meals (or meals don't last as long) because they don't hve the same amount of fat as the omnivorous meal. therefore, consuming more fat (via olive oil, or nuts, avocados etc) during a meal will make the meal more satisfying and will also make it 'burn more slowly' such that the individual feels satisfied.

because our culture is so fat obcessed (or rather, fat-free obcessed) many people forget the importance of fat as a macronutrient, as a carrier for many essential vitamins, and that up to 1/3 of our diet can or should come from high quality fat sources (including saturated fat and cholesterol--both of which are healthy in appropriate quantities).

The standard american diet which is too high in protien and in fat, is actually something like 40-50% fat, most of it saturated and cholesterol, rather than being 15-30% fat (what is considered a 'low fat' diet) that is mostly unsaturated fats. When people go vegetarian, they tend to simply practice 'nutrition by subtraction' which doesn't provide the right nutrient spectrums for health or satisfaction.

When i say 'nutrition by subtraction" i mean this. When i grew up, we ate chicken in a sauce, rice, and a green vegetable. If i were practicing 'nutrition by subtraction,' i'd simply eat rice and green vegetables--no sauce, no fat, and likely little or no flavoring. It's no wonder that i person wuld crave something higher in fat (cookies) and satisfying--we instantly look to carbs because, culturally, carbs are not 'as dangerous' as 'fat!'

The best method for practicing vegetarianism is to practice nutrition by addition. Any omnivore would do well by this too--since meat should really only be consumed in portions the side of condiments. But, to practice nutrition by addition, i recommend following this idea. First, you choose your 'theme' such as "morrocan nite." then, you assemble your recipes. Find things that are diverse. I'm choosing hummus and whole grain pitas, tabouleh (bulgar wheat, herbs, onion, olives, peppers and onions), carrot soup, bitter mixed greens with mustard seed dressing, and tomato-cucumber salad. for dessert, i'm having baked figs. This meal contains all of the protien, simple and complex carbohydrates, and fat that my body needs. The nutrients are diverse and the flavors are rich and satisfying. If an individual--such as my husbad--wants to include meat, he includes 2 oz (cooked) of lamb marinated in mint and yogurt. 2 oz!

as for the laziness--i've had it. there are days when i just don't want to cook or do anything, or i just want cookies. i'm human, so that's what i do. when i don't want to cook, i tend to just blend--smoothies. my favorite right now? mango-passionfruit juice, yogurt, coconut water and coconut oil, pineapple, and fresh papaya. so tastey!
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Posted 2005-07-19 4:37 PM (#27702 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


for people who have trouble digesting milk, i recommend raw milk instead of lactaid. here's a link: http://www.realmilk.com. that should explain the difference and how it can alleviate most symptoms of lactose intolerance.

also, not all rennet comes from cows. it is possible to get microbial and plant rennet. all of my cheese (raw cheese) is either rennet free or uses microbial rennet.
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easternsun
Posted 2005-07-19 11:14 PM (#27737 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


sorry i should have clarified - i have not eaten meat from an animal for over 15 years. i meant to say that i have stopped eating eggs and fish. i have milk issues because i would like to eliminate dairy from my diet too....life without cheese just sounds wrong

anyway, the cookies were fabulous and the sugar hangover is just about over.

i eat so healthy most of the time and then i have one of these days....cookies for dinner. i will try to remember this post when i have kids!
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tinyone
Posted 2005-07-19 11:53 PM (#27739 - in reply to #27737)
Subject: RE: confessions


Your post was awesome! I have had an entirely chocolate chip cookie meal before after being dairy free for 2 years. (Never did figure out what prompted it??)It was amazing but I did pay for it for a few days. I felt like I was dragging myself around. This was awhile ago and I have now introduced dairy back into my life in moderation.
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Posted 2005-07-20 7:53 AM (#27756 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


if you ate fish during those 15 years, you were eating meat. fish is meat, technically speaking. this would mean that you would be a 'semi vegetarian' to some people, but to me it's basicly restricted omnivore.

it's not a judgement, just a statement of fact. if you eat fish, it's not vegetarian. if you eat eggs or dairy, you are vegetarian (lacto-ovo vegetarian). If you don't eat eggs, then you're lacto vegetarian. if you don't eat dairy or eggs, then you're a strict vegetarian. if you don't eat anything from an animal, if you don't wear or use anything from an animal, then you are vegan.

it is important to understand and use these terms properly, but there is also some difficulty in doing so. in some regions of the world, vegetarianism includes fish--this is sometimes the case in india and definately the case in most of asia. it does make westerners a little bonkers, since fish is considered meat (and technically is an animal and is meat). but, what seems to make easterners bonkers about western vegetarians is the inclusion of eggs. of course, in the past, eggs used to be fertilized--and so that's an animal--but ghandi wrote a bit about unfertilized eggs, how they are similar to milk (though he didn't eat them himself, and was strict vegetarian for many years, then lacto-vegetarian).

i was vegan for a number of years, but due to cholesterol concerns (too low) i went back to consuming eggs and milk. i consume only raw milk and about a dozen eggs a week. that got my cholesterol levels back up to normal levels. i eat very few grains and sugars, as i have sugar sensitivities (can't handle too much), and for the msot part don't run well on complex carbs. I do eat sprouted whole grains, though, mostly in breads. Otherwise, my diet is pretty diverse in veggies, fruits, beans, spices, and what not.
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-07-20 10:08 PM (#27838 - in reply to #27737)
Subject: Milk - it does a body good:)



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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
easternsun - 2005-07-19 11:14 PM

sorry i should have clarified - i have not eaten meat from an animal for over 15 years. i meant to say that i have stopped eating eggs and fish. i have milk issues because i would like to eliminate dairy from my diet too....life without cheese just sounds wrong

anyway, the cookies were fabulous and the sugar hangover is just about over.

i eat so healthy most of the time and then i have one of these days....cookies for dinner. i will try to remember this post when i have kids!


Well that makes perfect sense now, Oh yes, those days where all I want for dinner are these little Chinese White Rabbit Milk Candies...I can eat the half the bag...especially when I'm on an X-file DVD binge weekend, Funny, they are made with milk mostly and I don't seem to get a sugar hangover....I get that when I spend a weekend in Atlanta at Eatzi's eating their Tiramasu and Southern Banana Pudding,

Regarding the Milk thing....Cheese is the worst for me and I love freshly grated Real Italian from the moutains of Italy Parmesan Cheese!!

Tonight I made a really nice dinner using dairy products. I made a nice Fetticine Alfredo with Shanghai Bok Choy.

You melt 3-4 Tablespoons of Ghee (clarified butter - 1/2 the fat of butter) in a very hot sauce pan (do not burn the ghee, if you do, throw it out and start all over), add 3-4 tablespoons of self-rising flour, on medium fire/heat make a rue (not real sure about how to explain the meaning of this...you just have to do it and then you know), but it turns a light beige color, without burning and is very smooth....then add the Lactaid Milk very slowly (the object is to add approx. 2 cups - I don't measure I just pour until it thickens and looks like 1-1/2 - 2 cups), then cook over medium to low heat until it is a thick gravy. Add sea salt and freshly ground pepper.

Meanwhile, boil some water and cook 1 bag of Egg Noodles until al dente'. Drain the water. Combine with sauce.

This recipe can also be used for Tuna and Chicken. Some people also like to add a beatened egg. If you add the egg, bake in the oven for 30 minutes on 350, or until thickened and egg is done. If you are adding Chicken or Tuna, make sure it is cooked or grilled. You can also add the freshly grated from the mountains of Italy Parmesan Cheese at this point as well or after the sauce if your doing vegetarian.

As for the Bok Choy, break apart the stalks and clean each one individually. I use baby bok choy so I don't have to slice it or cut it. In a wok or frying pan, add Dark Sesame Oil, get it hot, add finely chopped ginger and garlic for flavor, stir fry until light brown, add the bok choy and cook until desired doneness. Add sea salt at the end if you like.

This was my quick cooking dinner after doing Bikram and not wanting to spend all night in the kitchen. Talk about comfort food,

P.S. When you have kids....they will love this, mine adore this recipe. It was one of the first things ever taught to me in the kitchen over 20 years ago..I survived so many dinners from unexpected family and friends popping in and needing a quick something to feed them all.
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tinyone
Posted 2005-07-20 10:58 PM (#27842 - in reply to #27838)
Subject: RE: Milk - it does a body good:)


Sounds good.....do you cook with Lactaid often? I guess I have never thought of that as an option for me. I have been a soy milk person my entire life. I was even started on Soy formula. It sounds bizarre but milk makes me swell....mostly my hands and face.
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-07-21 8:13 AM (#27851 - in reply to #27842)
Subject: RE: Milk - it does a body good:)



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tinyone - 2005-07-20 10:58 PM

Sounds good.....do you cook with Lactaid often? I guess I have never thought of that as an option for me. I have been a soy milk person my entire life. I was even started on Soy formula. It sounds bizarre but milk makes me swell....mostly my hands and face.


Yes, I cook with Whole Lactaid Milk...often? probably not as I don't like to eat alot of milk products every day, however, when I do use Milk.....cooking milk or drinking warm milk is so much easier to digest than when cold. I find that staying away from White foods such as Breads and Rice helps me more than anything, therefore I can drink milk easily. Milk (cow) has so many benefits, it relieves dryness, constipation, it moistens the intenstines, etc. I eat a little bit of everything, mostly in moderation, I have my moments where I binge or eat things I should NOT for convenience..especially when I travel. At least I know and am aware of what I'm doing...If I was not aware, it could be worse. Soy Milk is great too. It's in my diet too, I also like to drink it warm or room temp. as it is really cooling to the body. If you really are having a hard time with Milk and want to drink it for the benefits, try Goat's Milk. Although the flavor is hard to get used to,
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jeansyoga
Posted 2005-07-21 8:38 AM (#27854 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


When I was vegan, I used to DREAM about cheese - literally. I dreamt of asiago cheese bagels and baked spaghetti. Once I dreamt that I was devouring a pizza and my brother came up to me and shouted "What are you doing! Your period is TOMORROW!" What's more disturbing, dreaming of cheese or that my brother would know when my period started!

I learned I could go without eggs and milk but that for me, life without cheese was not worth living. A little melted mozzarella once or twice a week is good for the soul!
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laurajhawk
Posted 2005-07-21 5:56 PM (#27892 - in reply to #27842)
Subject: RE: Milk - it does a body good:)


tinyone - 2005-07-20 8:58 PM

Sounds good.....do you cook with Lactaid often? I guess I have never thought of that as an option for me. I have been a soy milk person my entire life. I was even started on Soy formula. It sounds bizarre but milk makes me swell....mostly my hands and face.


tinyone, it sounds as if you're probably allergic to milk rather than lactose intolerant ... in this case I don't think Lactaid is an option for you. If you are lactose intolerant (as I am) you generally react to dairy products with cramps & bloating but not swelling like you describe.
-Laura
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tinyone
Posted 2005-07-21 6:44 PM (#27895 - in reply to #27892)
Subject: RE: Milk - it does a body good:)


You are absolutely right about the allergy.I have been told that since I was a baby. I always tried to avoid it completely but it was hard growing up and when I go out. So many things are made with some dairy. I do have medication that I take that treats the symptoms if I have them though. My boyfriend cracks me up...he always says, "did you take your puffy pills?" For two years my schedule and such was so organized and calculated that I was able to make or bring everything I ate myself. (this was awhile ago) Absolutely not a bit of dairy. I didn't even eat anything processed. I felt great and looked it too but alas I got older and busier and (i hate to say it) I don't have the time or the money to be that careful.
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tourist
Posted 2005-07-21 7:21 PM (#27903 - in reply to #27854)
Subject: RE: confessions



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Jean - cheese is just so darn good! I too, have given it up in the past and have gone back with no obvious problems. I knew someone years ago who was living in China in some faraway place who would bring an extra suitcase when they went to the "big city" and fill it with cheese to take home. I was relating that story recently to someone and she said she knew someone like that, too. But their airline lost their luggage. For a really long time. Like weeks maybe. In a really hot country...
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tinyone
Posted 2005-07-21 7:49 PM (#27905 - in reply to #27903)
Subject: RE: confessions


I love cheese too...just can't really have it very much. The last time that we were in Amsterdam, my boyfriend took a pic of me surrounded by rounds of cheese stacked up to the ceiling in one of the shops that we were in. Whenever I have a craving, we just look at the pic and laugh...I remember how overpowering the smell was and I seem to get over the craving.
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tourist
Posted 2005-07-21 10:15 PM (#27922 - in reply to #27905)
Subject: RE: confessions



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Yeah, you can try soy cheese. I have and it pretty much sucks But they are getting better at all that stuff - soy milk used to be crappy, too and now it is all we have at our house.
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Posted 2005-07-22 10:28 PM (#27984 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


for me, it was raw cheese that made all the difference.

pasturized milk products are often skimmed, then the enzymes are killed, and you're left with water, protien, and sugar (lactose). Most people are lactose intolerant, the amount of sugar often leads to a sugar spike, and the protien, therefore, isn't burned properly.

raw milk products are generally high in fat (cream removed, but whole milk) which means that per volumn, it has less sugar than pasturized milk and basicly the same amount of protien (protien chains are larger than sugar). The sugar that is present--lactose which is pretty much indigestable for most adults--is being broken down by the enzymatic structure of the milk which pasturization usually 'kills.' Therefore, when a person drinks raw milk, they're recieving all of the protien, the nutrient rich fats (which are also satisfying), and virtually none of the lactose because it's already being broken down by the enzymes in the milk, which aids the digestion of lactose in our stomaches.

Cheese made from raw milk and cream goes even one step farther. the various fungi and bacteria added to the raw milk and cream breaks down the lactose further, allowing more space for more protien, bringing the lactose content down to next to nothing (predigesting it for us), and still maintaining the (now relatively low compared to protien) fat context which is satisfying and nutrient rich.

When i consume 'regular' pasturized, homogenized, low-fat or non-fat dairy products, i get all of my lactose intolerance symptoms: bloating, gas, indigestion, and constipation. When i consume raw dairy (usually cheese, butter or ghee, yogurt, cream, and home-made ice cream), i do not have *any* of these symptoms.

I would recommend 'real' food to 'processed' food any day. the soy cheese is a heavily processed food with a number of additives and preservatives. many of these chemicals our body can't digest (such as soy protien isolate) and may actually inhibit nutrient absorption of other nutrients present in the meal.

it makes sense, then, if one is going to avoid cheese, that one avoid soy cheese also. when i was vegan, i avoided all dairy and all fake dairy--it's simply over-processed junk that isn't healthy.
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Posted 2005-07-22 10:32 PM (#27986 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


also, i want to point out for those who have allergies to milk, that many soy cheeses contain the dairy by-product/ingredient 'casein' which is one of the primary allergens of milk. therefore, even if the individual was avoiding dairy for the allergen reason, they would still have to avoid the soy cheeses for the same reason, seeing as casein is the prominent dairy-related allergen. per slice of cheese, an individual would recieve less casein from raw milk cheese than from soy cheese, thus decreasing the incidence of allergen from this particular dairy allergen.

also, if a person is truly allergic, it is obviously in their best interest to avoid dairy altogether. instead, avocado, nut butters, and similar 'fatty' plant foods may provide the necessary mouth feel and satisfaction, without the presence of allergens.
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tinyone
Posted 2005-07-23 3:08 AM (#27990 - in reply to #27986)
Subject: RE: confessions


You are right. During the 2 years of avoiding all dairy I did just that .... my doctors wanted to see what the effect would be if I had zero caesin, whey, anything...not even substitutes. I really wish I had the time, money, and discipline to do it again because it was the first time in my adult life that I didn't feel that I was consciously "watching my weight". I just sort of ended up at a lower but comfortable weight for me and didn't have to even think about it. Oh...I do like several kinds of nut butters but isn't it odd that I am also very allergic to avocado? I have never met anyone else that seems to be allergic to avocado. I am afraid nachos is a very boring meal at my house....no meat...no cheese...no guacamole...no sour cream...hahaha
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Posted 2005-07-23 5:47 PM (#28021 - in reply to #27629)
Subject: RE: confessions


i would say so! LOL

i was reading this interesting article, though, about a woman who went to an ayurvedic clinic in india for help with osteoperosis (assimilation problems) and they managed to rid her of her milk allergy too. actually, all of her allergies. it was fascinating.

anyway, a trip to india to be massaged every day for6 weeks might not be terrible, allergens or no.
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danceforlife
Posted 2005-08-17 5:02 PM (#30017 - in reply to #28021)
Subject: RE: confessions


I read that article too!

I bet it's true... I think so many illnesses and health problems are preventable or able to be healed so much more naturally than they usually are.

People put their nose in the air when the words "Natural Healing" are murmered and it just makes me cringe!

My roomate would rather take birthcontrol pills to "help" with cramps as opposed to researching in and taking more natural approaches. Cramps come from SOMEWHERE, why not go to the ROOT of the problem?
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