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| Hi yoga.com - my first post, forgive me if it's preaching but those world-leaders are really just looking after their own interests, as ever. Yoga is the global art, so here's a little humble theory. Doubtless this may just upset your ego (not intended), make a hurricane of love from from its butterfly wings or just miss the mark completely. No violence intended, of course.
Thoughts of a yogi:
Our World is a machine, governed by the Moon and powered by the Sun, Prana, the ultimate life-force.
Our bodies are machines, governed by the mind and powered by what we call the soul, the life-force of the individual.
Just as our World is made from the elements in earth, air and water in constant movement - so are the bodies of all living things. All living organisms - all plants and animals - are thus made from the World - and return to the World when they die: surely we all will.
Just as the Moon governs the cycles of tides, of weather, of reproduction - so the mind govern the habits, moods and desires of all creatures. The Moon is the time-keeper, its attachment to the World and its cycling nature is vital for the maintainance of life.
Solar energy powers the whole system, every plant and hence every animal is ultimately animated and given life by the Sun. As I sit here writing this - it is the Sun's energy which is driving me. As you read this, your consciousness too - your very life force, is powered by the same source.
This is a natural view of the nature of life which, whilst simplistic and doubtless open to debate in many aspects (not least - but hey, what about the rest of the solar system/ universe?) - still leads to certain basic conclusions which the reader may find interesting - it would appear that what we call a soul ie the life-force in every individual - is probably part of the Sun.
It would also appear that the influence of the Moon, which in pretty much every species of life apart from man is a vital maintaining factor - has in our species become thoroughly imbalanced. Humanity has developed the mind (the controlling factor) to such a degree that he lives in ignorance of his natural relationship and makes himself and the planet unhealthy in the process. We think way too much, we're control freaks, subject to all kinds of debilitating habits, and we don't seem to know how to live simply and be at peace with ourselves and others. If it is the case that the mind is closely related to the nature of the Moon, which would explain our deep-seated attachment to the body (the World), as well our egotistical, self-obsessed natures - we may perhaps improve our lot, as well the planet - by aiming to reduce the influence of our minds in everything except simple, healthy living patterns. Chitta-vrrti-nirhoda in other words - as a basic necessity for healthy living.
Indeed if we perhaps had the humility to look beyond our selfishness and see the unity in which we truly live, we might just save the world from the hellish outlook we're currently creating. It might just be that we could make a heaven of it after all - but to do that, we'd have to see the stupidity and decay inherent in our selfish, money-minded (moon-minded?), egotistical ways of living.
Om shanti to all. |
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| hellish outlook? What hellish outlook--just got done celebrating Independence Day: visited with friends, rode my Harley, drank a couple of Guinness at the pub...pretty darn nice sitting in the sun toasting the Forefathers. I didn't see a bit of hellishness. lordknows - 2005-07-04 11:37 AM ...we might just save the world from the hellish outlook we're currently creating. It might just be that we could make a heaven of it after all - but to do that, we'd have to see the stupidity and decay inherent in our selfish, money-minded (moon-minded?), egotistical ways of living. Om shanti to all. |
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| Om Namoh Shivai Bruce. Please forgive my directness, but you describe personal identifications and sense gratification, which are bhoga (enjoyment) - not yoga. This is what I was aiming at in the short essay: how our selfish pursuits (me,me,me... ) make us blind to a sense of the wholeness of life. This blindness is responsible for materialism and competition the world over - it makes for imbalanced, unhealthy individuals and an imbalanced, unhealthy planet. This is what I meant by the hellish outlook - since selfishness and competition are increasingly destructive factors in the world, not least environmentally. Yoga sadhana is doubtless the strongest medicine, the greatest healing process an individual can undertake - for themselves and the world. The quality of that sadhana is dependent on its continuity, its intensity, its purity and austerity - on how much the sadhak lives yoga and renounces bhoga. To live in transactional cycles of practising yoga (purifying onesself) and practising bhoga (corrupting onesself) is the maintainence of inner conflict which can only go on for so long before one of these wins out. But then why I am trying to summarize the Gita? Bruce - it's all there (in the Gita, as well as the Upanishads and in the teachings of all good teachers). Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. |
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| I'll ask you to suffer my directness as well Michael--rubbish--a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing. I agree the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita are epoch writings, as is the Bible, the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, and the State of Texas law allowing concealed handguns. Enjoying the good things this life offers Doesn't make me blind--I just don't see the horror all around and try to help when I do.
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| Peace again to you Bruce. Lots of it. From Michael - lordknows:-) |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | lordknows - 2005-07-04 12:37 PM
Our World is a machine, governed by the Moon and powered by the Sun, Prana, the ultimate life-force.
Just as the Moon governs the cycles of tides, of weather, of reproduction - so the mind govern the habits, moods and desires of all creatures. The Moon is the time-keeper, its attachment to the World and its cycling nature is vital for the maintainance of life.
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Hi Lordknows,
There's certainly good evidence that the Moon affects the tide, but I'm not so sure about its
effect on the weather or upon reproduction (unless you think that women's "moon cycles"
are actually affected by the Moon). I'm also a little uncertain that we can call the Moon a
"time keeper" in the context of our current calendar.
Could you elaborate a bit on this?
THX,
Bay Guy |
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| If kickin' back, enjoying some beer, hanging with friends, and riding your favorite ride is selfish and contributing to a "hellish outlook", then then **** me to hell "lordknows."
If life isn't about enjoying, then it's about nothing! It's highly offensive that you're assuming things about people as a whole. Do you realize that we're fighting two wars right now??? Do you realize that most everyone knows someone who's fighting??? It's Independence Day, and I'll do as I please, because I'm lucky to live in the country I do. I'm not going to give up drink and friends and my classic car for the moon.
If you're truly worried about going "beyond the G8" then maybe your time would be better spent in Afghanistan or Iraq than on a yoga forum. |
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| Om folks
I'll try to answer a few of the responses on one go, and then maybe I should leave it there - clearly I'm upsetting people and that wasn't the intention at all. Ahimsa, Satya etc.
Bay Guy, thanks for your comments. Scientists generally agree that if the moon disappeared then the earth itself would spin out of orbit, destroying all life in the process. Gravitationally then moon can be said to act as a governor on our planet. The moon's effect on the weather is more complex, but not too hard to understand. Were there no moon (and the earth managed to stay in orbit!), with no significant tides - the wind would drop, surely! Hence no weather. It may seem a bit too obvious but whilst scientists are plumbing the depths of nuclear physics, genetics and the like - do they ever stop to ask what forces have actually created (and are creating) evolution itself - is it such a leap to think that this may be the result of the ongoing interaction of earth, sun and moon. Well that's my simplistic science.
The spiritual interpretation is based on classical yoga theory, particularly the Upanishads -
where Sun is indeed Prana itself and the Moon is Rayi, or food - the entity responsible for cycles generating and maintaining all living things. What I've said here is not new. The perspective that our bodies may be directly related to the world - our souls, our fundamental living energy may be related to the sun - and that our minds may be related to the cycling moon - is nothing radical at all, indeed it can be found in many ancient traditions. Add to that the meaning of Ha-tha (sun -moon) may extend beyond ida and pingala into an understanding of life which sees the self, the individual as a microcosm of the macrocosm ie sun/ soul, world/ body, mind/ moon - then it may be what's been described is closer to yoga than it first appears.
To Bruce and to Jbeanbutterfly, and anyone else upset about the perspective given on worldy pleasures and/ or national identification I profoundly apologize for any offense I may have caused. Non-violence is the foundation of yoga, and I had no intention of upsetting anyone. As a human being living on planet earth with you I only pray we had no guns, no nationalities, no divisions, no conflicts whatsoever. My only contribution to this vision is to practise yoga living a sattvic life all day, every day - to give my life to it. Yoga is about the union of the jivatman with the paramatman, the little soul with with supersoul - or the self with God, whichever way you want to put it. Ultimately it's beyond words, it's about pure, humble practise and as I close I'll wish you all well with your own yoga practises. Om Shanti. Om is the sacred sound, the sound of Brahman. Shanti is all Peace.
further reading on yoga: http://www.ishwar.com/hinduism/ |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| Mike - the people here are actually pretty hard to offend. We also have a pretty decent yoga philosophy background (as a group). I think the reaction you got stemmed from the fact that you appeared out of the blue (to us) and started out with a gigantic lecture which seemed to assume we are clueless. It is a bit off-putting.
I think the problem is that people lurk on a board and feel like they "know" the members but the members have no idea who this new person is. Its like you are at a party and a stranger you can't see has been watching and listening all night and suddenly pops in and starts lecturing the whole group. 
As for earthly pleasures, most of us are clearly not evolved enough (sadly or happily!) to renounce those yet. I certainly understand and honour those who are, although I have found in my experience, most of those who are at that stage and fully living in it are happy to be there and to be very accepting of where I am on my path. I am quite content that it will be several more lifetimes before I can live on air and sunshine. Chocolate is good  |
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| Lordknows..., Are you trying to reach Samadhi?? or what? 
and your link is about Hinduism and not about Yoga
Edited by Thushara 2005-07-05 10:34 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well, I couldn't resist...especially after I stumbled across this over the holiday. No, I didn't celebrate Independence Day, I celebrated gratitude for the Native Americans that gave up their land, their culture and way of life, just so us Americans can *enjoy* ourselves. Lordknows, I understand where you were trying to go with your original post...I invite you to try this one on for size.......
Anyway, the following is from Sogyal Rinpoche's book, "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying".
"Sometimes I think that the greatest achievement of modern culture is its brilliant selling of samsara and its barren distractions. Modern society seems to me a celebration of all the things that lead away from the truth, make truth hard to live for, and discourage people from even believing that it exists. And to think that all this springs from a civilization that claims to adore life, but actually starves it of any real meaning; that endlessly speaks of making people "happy", but in fact blocks their way to the source of real joy.
This modern samsara feeds off an anxiety and depression that it fosters and trains us all in, and carefully nurtures with a consumer machine that needs to keep us greedy to keep going. Samsara is highly organized, versatile, and sophisticated; it assaults us from every angle with its propaganda, and creates an almost impregnable environment of addiction around us. The more we try to escape, the more we seem to fall into the traps it is so ingenious at setting for us. As the eighteenth-century Tibetan master Jikme` Lingpa said: "Mesmerized by the sheer variety of perceptions, beings wander endlessly astray in samsara's vicious cycle."
Obsessed, then, with false hopes, dreams, and ambitions, which promise happiness but lead only to misery, we are like people crawling through an endless desert, dying of thirst. And all that this samsara holds out to us to drink is a cup of salt water, designed to make us even thirstier.
Have a Happy belated 4th of July??????? Yea, right.
P.S. Thushara, you think this NOT about Yoga??? Hello??? Try again. |
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| Om again yogis:-)
Thanks for your views peoples -
tourist, thanks for your compassion: a lecture wasn't the intention - more a perspective from one who's spent more than his fair share of time pursuing selfish delights, who came to his senses and freely admits he owes his life to yoga sadhana. The article was offering a view to others who may be interested, again I say it wasn't meant to cause carnage. I take your points entirely about the nature of your message board, and have no issue whatsoever with either your or anyone else's particular measure of their own position. The piece made a general point which may, or may not be of use - that's all. If it points out the good, or the bad, both of which may be useful signposts - then it may serve its purpose:-)
thushara, I'm doing karma yoga - giving some time in the form of writing to perhaps assist others who may be interested. If I'm hurting or hindering anyone in their yoga - let me know and I'm happy to give up now. Meanwhile I'll give it my best shot. Tomorrow I should be digging someone else's garden :-)
The link is to hindu scriptures, which are the source material for all yoga philosophy and practise. Many people still think asana is all there is, that yoga is just physical culture and this is a great misunderstanding.
cyndi - this fits anyone with ears to hear. Thankyou. If I had any intention whatsoever it was to open and encourage deeper debate - yoga as developed by both the hindus and the buddhists has an extraordinary wealth of practical wisdom to teach all of us. For that matter so do the teachings and philosophies of the native americans and many other tribal, so-called 'primitive' peoples who lived so much more in harmony with the earth and each other than we do in our modern, 'developed' societies.
It might be that if readers are interested enough to go beyond their initial reactions to the kind of post I - and now you - have generously offfered - what is real and good in spirituality may come at least a little nearer through the veil of illusion which so painfully cloaks us all. Let's hope so anyway. Om Shanti, to everyone:-) |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Hope you stick around Lordknows. 
It just occured to me that posting a link to an article somehow doesn't give me that automatic feeling of being lectured nearly as much as a long, long, long post. Just a thought that may be helpful to others. |
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| lordknows - 2005-07-06 10:39 PM
thushara, I'm doing karma yoga - giving some time in the form of writing to perhaps assist others who may be interested. If I'm hurting or hindering anyone in their yoga - let me know and I'm happy to give up now. Meanwhile I'll give it my best shot. Tomorrow I should be digging someone else's garden :-)
The link is to hindu scriptures, which are the source material for all yoga philosophy and practise. Many people still think asana is all there is, that yoga is just physical culture and this is a great misunderstanding.
Shhhhhh Guys Guys Silent !!! Listen.,..
Im sure this is an interesting discussion., Can we move this to Phylosophy section of this forum
Thanks Godknows.. Yeah I know yoga includs 8 steps and Asana is ony one. You said you practice Karma Yoga. You practice only Karma yoga or you practice it witth physical posess?
Edited by Thushara 2005-07-05 11:52 PM
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| I agree with tourist-I hope you stick around lordknows. People on this forum are hard to offend and come from all over the world, different backgrounds etc.
Bayguy-I know you know the moon thing. I am very simplistic, but I do know about the full moon and the term lunatic-it is true! The ER's are busier, people are crazier and a bit meaner (especially when I was a flight attendant). My dad would swear by a full moon that he would be up all night delivering babies and POOF, he was!
Don't know a lot about the G8. Lived in Europe before the kingdoms united and have not kept up with the talks. I am a patriotic American whose ancestors helped the Native Americans etc,...
and I could go on.
For me, I love the forums and learn lots from them. Thanks lordknows for opening minds to a more universal spectrum. It took me a couple of times to understand what you were saying and I thank you for it.  |
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| Watching the news this morning and am saddened by the explosions in London. I hope and pray nothing else happens today.  |
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| My heart goes out to London and all who have friends and family there. You are in my thoughts and prayers! Security has already tightened up this morning here in NYC. |
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Beyond the G8
