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How to explain this mantra?
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beauty_cat
Posted 2005-06-22 7:29 PM (#26086)
Subject: How to explain this mantra?


My teacher asked me to write down the meaning of this mantra. "That is full this is full. The full comes out of the full. When the full is taken out of the full, the full nevertheless remains full."
Who knows it? Thank you.
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Thushara
Posted 2005-06-23 6:17 AM (#26103 - in reply to #26086)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?


This Truth was revealed to the Rishis. It expresses the wisdom of the universe underlying all aspects of creation from the tiniest atom to the mightiest galaxies: whatever comes out of the fullness that God is, is also fullness itself and doesn’t in anyway diminish the fullness of the whole. A baby coming to life is fullness itself, but the fullness of the baby doesn’t diminish the fullness of the mother. An apple tree is fullness itself, the apples that spring from it are fullness itself, as well as the seeds in the apple, and this doesn’t in anyway diminish the fullness that the tree is. All of creation is a manifestation of this Truth.

The word YOGA, which means “union”, is highly suggestive. It reminds us that the goal and purpose of life is to realize that we are Sampoorna: Fullness, Divinity itself, one with the supreme consciousness, Brahman. From ancient times this has been the experience of all the Rishis. All the Scriptures try to wake us up to this Truth. The expression of this experience is called Yoga and Vedanta . The purpose of Sampoorna Yoga is to bring this experience into the life of people of today.

So each individual is as full as the fullness, the pure consciousness he comes from. Yet as this pure consciousness functions through the limited equipment of body, mind, intellect and senses, human beings perceive themselves as finite and limited. Hence the confusion and madness in the world. In order to fill the inner void and find happiness, fullness and freedom, people spend their lives acquiring and hoarding. They feel that the more they can acquire and grab for themselves, the more secure they will be. Throughout history, many are the examples of those who had ultimate wealth, power and pleasures, but failed to find total fulfillment. Solomon, the emperors of China, the Egyptian pharaohs and so many others have had this experience. Even in the Scriptures there are examples of individuals, like Ravana , who had conquered these three worlds. Yet they remained unfulfilled because this kind of experience can only bring temporary happiness. In spite of those illustrious examples, most people think they will succeed where the others failed. They keep running in the wrong direction, striving to find fulfillment in objects, relationships, success and pleasure in the outer world. More is never enough. They don’t see that at the end of the rat race, the rat is still a rat…!

How to get out of this collective hypnosis? The Scriptures say: “By refining and harmonizing the equipment – body, senses, mind, intellect.” This powerful technology has been given to us to accelerate our evolution and uplift our consciousness by transforming our whole personality from the gross to the subtlest level. Through a process of constant refinement an ordinary human being can evolve into a divine being. That is why they say that being born as a human being is a very special privilege, a true blessing. The more the equipment through which the Self functions becomes transparent, the more it will reflect the original perfection. Perfection - fullness is not to be acquired. It is already there. All we have to do is to remove the veil that keeps us from experiencing it. This is the objective of yoga as outlined in the Scriptures. This is also the objective of Sampoorna Yoga.

Many people in the West have been mislead into believing that yoga is just doing postures, developing strength and flexibility, getting more power and being more attractive. This misunderstanding takes them in the opposite direction to what yoga is about. It leads to inflating the ego and increasing identification with the body, thus making the veil even thicker. But their mistake is not really surprising. From the time we are born, we are conditioned to identify with the body, the mind, the intellect, the world of names and forms, not realizing that the fruits we get are as illusory and fleeting as the mirage of an oasis in the desert. Becoming aware of this wrong programming is the first step. Willingness to get rid of it in order to evolve into something higher is the second step, and this will create a new movement in our consciousness and relationship with the world. Yearning and restlessness are bound to appear, but that stage is much higher than a state of dullness, blindness and delusion.
Whatever our human birth, and our yearning to understand the mysteries and mysticism of life, and the desire to develop our highest potential … all these blessings will not be enough. Help is needed. Until we meet our Guru there is no way to experience the ultimate fullness which is our true nature. That is why even the great incarnations had a Guru: Râma was instructed by Sage Vasistha, Arjuna was taught by Krishna , Jesus was initiated by John the Baptist… In the mundane life, we find it natural: someone who has an earnest desire to become a pianist, a dancer or a surgeon wants to study with a teacher experienced in that particular field and to imbibe his teachings. That person will serve as a reference and a model and the pupil will be willing to follow the discipline. How much more is a spiritual guide necessary on the inner journey when so many years of wrong conditioning have to be erased! The mere presence of the Guru creates an upward movement in consciousness. He knows how to guide the seeker around the pitfalls on the path. That is why all the Scriptures emphasize satsanga, the need to associate as often and as long as possible with enlightened beings, who are established in the experience of their fullness and divinity.
According to Shankaracharya, a great sage of the VIth century, human birth, the longing for liberation, and a Guru are the three rarest blessings in life.

Yoga is a journey, a big adventure. Competitors in the “America’s cup”, before they put to sea, have to know the laws that govern the seas, they have to get good charts and they have to be familiar with their ship. All this knowledge has been handed down to them by those who preceded them on this journey. Then they can weigh anchor for their lonely journey.


It is the same with yoga: you will be traveling alone, equipped with knowledge made available to you by the sages of the past and present. This knowledge will expose you to the visible and invisible laws that you will have to know and respect if you want a better chance to reach the goal. The Sages will provide you with the maps you need to give you the necessary landmarks about the creation of the universe, and the place of human beings and how they function within this universe. As for the ship, it is represented by the different systems or branches of yoga.



if you can read such a lot this is the meaning.. i m not telling this anyway
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beauty_cat
Posted 2005-06-24 8:52 AM (#26158 - in reply to #26086)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?


You are so great. Thank you very much.
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Bay Guy
Posted 2005-06-24 11:15 PM (#26182 - in reply to #26158)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
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Location: A Blue State
Thushara, I think that you lost me in all that. What does "full" mean?

And, okay, here is how stupid I really am: What is the difference between
an empty mind and a full one? I understand that Buddhists seek to have an
empty mind whilst Hindus seek to have a full one. Is this contentment
versus nihilism? I'm lost, I admit it....



Edited by Bay Guy 2005-06-24 11:18 PM
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susanchain
Posted 2005-06-25 3:41 AM (#26193 - in reply to #26086)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?


"That is * this is *. The * comes out of the *. When the * is taken out of the *, the * nevertheless remains *."

Take FULL away, and I find out that I can put every word in.
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belovedofthegod
Posted 2005-06-27 4:15 AM (#26263 - in reply to #26086)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?


Hi Bay Guy,

"And, okay, here is how stupid I really am: What is the difference between
an empty mind and a full one? I understand that Buddhists seek to have an
empty mind whilst Hindus seek to have a full one. Is this contentment
versus nihilism? I'm lost, I admit it...."

Thats not correct, both Hindus and Buddhists attempt to get the mind to cease to exist and thereby go beyond mind. The mind will always keep that which it values the most and the last thing that is kept is the ego (Asmita, "I am"-ness). For this reason, when one gets rid of the ego, at that point one is also getting rid of the mind. However, it is not nihilistic in that sense because it is not that when the mind goes, nothing is left. Instead when the mind goes, the Self shines forth (in Hinduism) or in Buddhism they say that "Wisdom" comes forth. This might be strange until one understands what mind is meant and how the beyond-mind acts and so on.

Regarding the original invocation from the Upanishads, actually no one knows what is actually meant, though there are two major theories. It is generally agreed that That means Brahman, the ground of all being. The "This" could either mean the Self, or it could mean the Universe. Both of these make some sense, but the Self one makes more sense in my opinion since the Universe isn't "full",

Regards.
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Thushara
Posted 2005-06-27 9:03 AM (#26267 - in reply to #26182)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra


BG., You are correct..

As Theravada Buddhist, we talk about empting our mind.. That means: ;

Our mind is full of likings (Asha) and bonds (Bandha) those are selfish feelings.
As an example ., we like to have a pay rise we like to have a house, comfort., etc., etc, those are endless.. we contact material world for the joy.
Bandha means we have bonds .”Bandha” happens due to “Asha”, we start loving people due to our own selfishness, we want to make them ours., we don’t like them leaving.. so on…
According to Buddhism., Asha is the reason for infinite loop of rebirth. So if we want to get out of it., we have to get out of Aha., and then we get out of our selfishness too.. That’s what we call empting our mind., Because as normal people our mind is full with those thoughts..

Beloved god, you are correct too.. When our mind is empty from those thoughts, we fulfill it with Wisdom. We understand the noble truth! We understand the suffering, the true nature of our lives., and the path to freedom. So by fulfilling our mind with Wisdom we can have endless happiness.. no rebirth…

In a nutshell that’s what Theravada Buddhism says.. and BG., I’m sorry., I cant explain the way you guys do it as I haven’t learnt this subject in English.. But I hope you can understand it..



BTW: jakiecat, I didnt write your reply., I was wondering what the hell is that Manthra .. so I googled it and pasted it here for you.. Even I havet read it fully





Edited by Thushara 2005-06-27 9:06 AM
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Bay Guy
Posted 2005-06-27 12:36 PM (#26279 - in reply to #26267)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
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Thanks, Thushara and Beloved. I think I have the sense of the Buddhist viewpoint now.

I'm still not completely certain of the "fullness" ascribed to yogis, beyond the sense that
it implies contentment with the current circumstance and thus a freedom from Sukha and
Duhkha...e.g., as in Yoga Sutras II-7, II-8.
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belovedofthegod
Posted 2005-06-28 4:42 AM (#26312 - in reply to #26086)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?


Hi BayGuy,

"I'm still not completely certain of the "fullness" ascribed to yogis, beyond the sense that
it implies contentment with the current circumstance and thus a freedom from Sukha and
Duhkha...e.g., as in Yoga Sutras II-7, II-8."

Fullness is a common wish in the Upanishads.

Sarvesham purnam bhavatu

May all have fullness.

It basically means fullfilled, it seems like a perfect description of liberation. Being completely fullfilled. The word Purnam can also be translated as Perfect or as Whole.

So sometimes you get: "That is Whole. This is Whole. From That comes This, yet the Whole remains unchanged"

This clearly more cosmological. And aslo: "That is Perfect. This is Perfect. From That comes This, yet the Perfection remains unchanged" is another way of understanding.

It is interesting that the same word can be translated as full and perfect,

Regards.
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Bay Guy
Posted 2005-06-28 9:35 PM (#26391 - in reply to #26312)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
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Location: A Blue State

Thanks, Beloved. Here's what I trip over...how does fullness relate to fulfillment?
Fulfillment implies desire that is fulfilled, which would imply that liberation comes
out of pursuing desire. Or does this all simply imply the absence of desire? Or contentment
with that which is?
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belovedofthegod
Posted 2005-06-29 5:15 AM (#26408 - in reply to #26086)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?


Hi BayGuy,

"Fulfillment implies desire that is fulfilled, which would imply that liberation comes
out of pursuing desire."

Fulfillment in this context means "satisfy". If one has a lot of desires fulfillment is not really possible simply because one cannot satisfy all these desires. On the other hand, enlightenment could be considered the fulfillment of the only existent desire, which is the desire for peace/hapiness. All other desires sooner of later have the purpose of hapiness, or a peace of some sort coming out of it. Even a "selfless desire" has this purpose; the fact that one chooses to carry out this selfless act means that one prefers it to the other act and from conscience point of view or whatever, is in actuality gaining more hapiness from the selfless act.

Another way of looking at it, is that fullness means one is full in everything one wants. So first reduce all desires to one (liberation or supreme hapiness) and then it is that, that is being fulfilled. Also consider that fulfillment is a state, so in a sense liberation is that state, complete fulfillment. One should not confuse the method of reaching fulfillment with the state of total fulfillment. Swami Annamalai described enlightenment as zero-gravity, there is nothing pulling you from any direction, no desires left to fulfill since everything has already been fulfilled.

In Vedanta it is recognized that one of the requisites for gaining liberation is a desire for liberation. I realize that in Zen and so on they try to say that even this desire one shouldn't have. However, the decision to take off this desire is still done for the sake of liberation, so I don't think such an argument is coherent.

Sorry, I keep liking to talk about the various positions on everything but there is another one. Some Tantrikas actually did hold that "liberation comes out of pursuing desire". Their point was that if one just fulfills every desire (especially the sexual ones), but without taking it too seriously (ie: being detached) one will not have to struggle with desires and yet is not attached to them and so will be liberated. I don't really find this very realistic, but there is an important aspect to this that has to be understood.

If you want to understand the practical application of this wisdom in a more practical form, I suggest reading these two very very short pages:

http://trikashaivism.org/usf/bgvdgita02.html
http://trikashaivism.org/usf/bgvdgita04.html

It is Swami Lakshmanjoo's exposition of Abhinavagupta's (a famous Shaiva Master) summary of the Bhagavadgita (which doesn't really agree with the Bhagavadgita, but is very valuable nonetheless). I think everyone should read it carefully, because it is very useful thing to understand. Please read both pages though, the first one without the second can be misleading and remember that this kind of principle is applied with some very basic common sense (ie: don't kill people),

Regards.
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belovedofthegod
Posted 2005-06-29 1:37 PM (#26431 - in reply to #26086)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?


Hi BayGuy,

I found something else that you might find helpful. This is the Ashtavakra Gita, Chapter 12 called Fulfillment. The text is an old non-sectarian radical non-dual text of the Vedantic tradition. One thing you have to understand is that this discourse was given to an advanced disciple who would have been meditating many years so it says at this point to give up meditation (other than sitting in one's own nature) and so on. From our point of view, this should not be taken too seriously at this time, but reading such texts over and over gives a non-intellectual understanding of the Advaita view (of course basic intellectual is also needed).

http://www.swcp.com/~robicks/gita12.htm

The last verses:

"Whoever fulfills this
Fulfills his own nature
And is indeed fulfilled."

Regards.
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Bay Guy
Posted 2005-06-30 10:22 PM (#26502 - in reply to #26431)
Subject: RE: How to explain this mantra?



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
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Thanks again, Beloved. That text is a gem. .... BG


My child,
Because you think you are the body,
For a long time you have been bound.

Know you are pure awareness.

With this knowledge as your sword
Cut through your chains.

And be happy!

For you are already free,
Without action or flaw,
Luminous and bright.


.......

What need is there
For striving or stillness?

What is freedom or bondage?

What are holy books or teachings?

What is the purpose of life?

Who is the disciple,
And who is the master?

For I have no bounds.

I am Shiva.

Nothing arises in me,
In whom nothing is single,
Nothing is double.

Nothing is,
Nothing is not.

What more is there to say?



Chidananda Roopa, Sivoham, Sivoham.

Om nama Sivaya........

Namaste.
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