|
|
| ...Oh sh*t-reality:
Mankinds dilemma when dealing with God is that they want to make 'mortal' mind to understand. Who is willing to step out and just deal with it? Most folks aren't, because it's Oh sh*t -reality, like acaveyogi once so wisely said. Truth can't be put into words. So what the hell I'm doing here? Maybe there is still something I can try to explain about this thing. Stepping into the unknown without trying to understand it seems to have some nice side-effects. Sometimes it's a bit hard when you get deep into the unknown and mind fights back, but in the end you notice that somehow your reality changes in a positive way. You feel more balanced, feel more love and get cool realizations, but thing that makes these things happen can't be explained. The more you can let go of the need to understand the better the unknown can do it's work in you.
So in my reality there is Self-realization and then there's God-realization and they are two different things. Union with God has two directions:
1. You become God and kind of disappear into yourself. You know there's only God and I am That stuff.
2. God becomes you and you become a member of God's family. It's a Father/Mother and Child kind of thing.
The term God-realization is a bit misleading, because God is something that is totally beyond comprehension. Process of "God-realization" is an endless one, it's an infinite sized puzzle. It will take eternity to get all the pieces together. Definately you'll get many great realizations along the process but usually they become old news very fast. You just keep waking up more and more.
The folks that claim that there's an end to the process of Awakening are obviously lying. Their end can be real in case it's some real realization but it is just a one realization along the way. If you examine some of the leading spiritual teachers of today, for example Ken Wilber I think they are finally getting that the End was a hoax (or atleast that the puzzle is much bigger than people previously thought). But in my reality most of these leading 'masters' are still running 'Self stuff' (All is God and I Am that/Non-duality), which really is different from 'God stuff'(I Am all that is called creation and God is my Father and Creator). I used to be a hardcore non-dualist until Jesus opened my eyes and things have been very interesting since I reconnected to my master Jesus Christ.
OM YA HUNG |
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I don't understand your point??? Are you like confused about the concept of God and your Self or something?? What is Om Ya Hung?? I've never heard of that mantra...would you mind explaining it? Thanks |
|
| |
|
| For one rare moment in time I'm with Cyndi on this one! ( to Cyndi!) Quite confused about your post here - could you clarify? Namaste, Echo |
|
| |
|
|  My point was to bring the difference of Self-realization and God-realization into daylight, because almost everybody seem to think that they are one and the same thing. Sorry if it was confusing. Well you can't always succeed. What I'm talking about here comes from actual personal experience. I claim to be in a permanent samadhi with God and also claim that it's quite simple to achieve once the confusion about the subject gets cleared. I'm sorry if I created more confusion.
True God-realization stuff screws up the Yoga business. Union with God is a free gift, anybody taking money from his Yoga or meditation classes and claiming that he/she teaches God-realization is BS. You can't write books about God-realization, because this stuff is beyond words and pictures. God-realization is studied directly under God's guidance in the state of oneness with Him/Her/It. Oneness with God through Jesus Christ is very much achievable to all who seriously want it, because it's about grace. You just let God occupy your body, love His presence from the altar of your heart and Holy Spirit will teach you.
Om ya hung is a western mind yoga mantra. Om ya hung activates heart center, front energy and medulla.
OM MA HUNG (ma=grounding)
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bodhisattva,
Regardless of your opinions about the Yoga business and persons taking money etc. to realize God....it really should not matter. I like how Bikram says that if you practice Yoga, the spirituality will come later, naturally!! Everyone is on different levels of understanding. One person may need to go through the experience of a meditation class or a Yoga class, church, ashram, temple or wherever to receive the ESSENCE of GOD!! There is nothing wrong with that and what are you going to do?? Having that said, there are as many authentic teachers and guru's out there as there are phoney and fake ones. I think its part of the individual experience that an aspirant MUST go through in today's world..it is afterall our KARMA. You should study the ancient Tibetan Buddhist Bodhisattva Milarepa, he was a very interesting character and achieved his enlightenment in one lifetime.. Ashoka is another one.
Anyway, you really need to find a guru. I do not agree with your statement about allowing God to enter and occupy your body, then to let the holy spirit teach you. You need so much more than that. You must have guidance from someone who has walked the path before you. Every human being has Buddha nature and has God. How many people do you know that actually walk their talk and make claims about being a realized being or that are a true spiritual example to follow, without a teacher especially??? Not many. The idea is to focus on a Godward mind, practice it in all of your affairs and be that example. A true guru will put you on this type of path. When you do all this...there is no need to tell anyone about it or talk about it period...You don't need to justify anything!! You are simply an observer and are here to assist others by doing a service to others wherever that may be and in a personal way. It's not about your glory or feeding your ego, its about being a true Bodhisattva. Take care,
Cyndi |
|
| |
|
| I don't know. I don't think everyone needs an official guru. I can't tell you the weirdest moments the Universe (God for those who don't get offended) reveals wisdom to me. Especially with children. Children and working with disabled people are the best connection (for me) to the Divine.
While I really enjoy the Bikram workout I don't find it spiritual at all. And I don't expect it to be. Bikram has been useful for me to unravel the "less useful" layers I've held onto that were creating illness. Now, if the Dali Lama were teaching my Bikram class I'd probably melt into the Oneness of God on the spot. He just has that way about him. Actually, it's kind of unfair to expect a yoga teacher to be a guru. That's a lot of pressure. Sure, I've learned some interesting tidbits of philosophy.
Anyway, for what's it's worth... fifi |
|
| |
|
| Anyway, you really need to find a guru. I do not agree with your statement about allowing God to enter and occupy your body, then to let the holy spirit teach you. You need so much more than that. You must have guidance from someone who has walked the path before you. Every human being has Buddha nature and has God. How many people do you know that actually walk their talk and make claims about being a realized being or that are a true spiritual example to follow, without a teacher especially??? Not many.
The way you think is what keeps the power in the hands of traditions. Mysticism is that you study yoga without a living teacher, I studied yoga over ten years without a living teacher and my teacher studied yoga science for 30 years directly under God without a living teacher. Studying under a living teacher can make things happen a lot more faster that's for sure, but I think that studying yoga under Jesus has an same effect. I'm pretty sure that someday maybe not so far in the future, there are going to be a lot of masters saying what I now say. Basically there is nothing wrong with people making money with yoga, but the truth is that then it just can't be God-realization. I may sound arrogant with my claims, but traditions have never liked mystics very much. Mysticism is actually where it all started. Asana, pranyamas, mudras etc. were experienced spontaneously in meditation by mystics of old and then people just started to imitate them.
The idea is to focus on a Godward mind, practice it in all of your affairs and be that example. A true guru will put you on this type of path. When you do all this...there is no need to tell anyone about it or talk about it period...You don't need to justify anything!! You are simply an observer and are here to assist others by doing a service to others wherever that may be and in a personal way. It's not about your glory or feeding your ego, its about being a true Bodhisattva. Take care,
How are people going to know, if everybody keeps their mouths shut? I and my teacher have been spreading the gospel for a while now and we're getting a lot of Oh sh*t responses. So I understand your reaction and that's ok. I wish you love and blessings.
Om Heart's love Om
Edited by Bodhisattva 2005-06-17 10:09 PM
|
|
| |
|
|  More arrogant claims.
Union with God as Jesus taught:
Here's quote about how it's done from my teacher John "acaveyogi" Scott:
"The system of union with God that Jesus taught:
From a yoga science stand point the best meditation that there is and which will also give you the quickest results without creating instability, is to "Feel yourself occupied by Jesus and feel his crown of thorns on your head and feel his hands and feet as your hands and feet. Then in your minds eye reach out with both arms and give all of God's loved ones a loving hug." If a person does this meditation very much, the eye of heaven will wake up, the crown of life will wake up, the tree of life will wake up, and rivers of living water will flow from your belly. It is awesome to experience/become all these things at once. And with Jesus these things will take you into the Family of God and far beyond any place that todays yogis can take you no matter what their tradition or technique is. So if you really want to have a look at things, give that one a try. It is the system of union with God that Jesus taught. John "acaveyogi" Scott"
In case someone got interested here is more: http://www.livejournal.com/users/yogimystic/
Edited by Bodhisattva 2005-06-17 10:16 PM
|
|
| |
|
| Even yoga as a form of exercise can also be studied without a guru. There's a system called mountain tai chi, which is a perfect exercise system. The system itself teaches it's practitioner once you get how it's done. My teacher calls it dancing with chi in creation. I will post a link to the video clips of me doing it, when I get them online. Then if I give simple instructions everybody will be able to study it on their own. |
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bodhisattva,
I really appreciate your words about the guru concept, really I do. However, how did you learn Tai Chi?? Did you read a book? or did you learn from a Master?? I learned Tai Chi from a Master. There is no way I could of learned from any other place. Soooo,
It's the same with learning Yoga, or the same with anything...you need to have a guru of some kind. Then, you can practice and have the experience on your own..of course. Your teacher is there to teach you, but you have to have the experience on your own. So, when I talk about a guru this is what I'm talking about and this is my experience. Guru's come in all kinds of forms. Your parents are your first and foremost Guru's. When your on a spiritual path, that is another kind of guru. A Yoga teacher is another type of guru and then there is a point in your life where you may find one guru or your final guru.
Anyone who says they are doing it on their own is questionable. I too have had universal experiences and my own intuitive ones from what I thought was the divine...but, I was not 100% accurate with the experiences that I received until I learned from my guru how to accept this experience and use it properly. There are many things floating around the universe..even harmful things and information that appear to be good and are not. So, having a guru can help you distinguish between what is harmful and what is not. If you are doing it on your own, how will you know 100% for sure?? Are you going to accept this information based on your deluded, impure mind?? Not me..been there and done that before...its pretty freaky and scary when you learn the truth and have a true realization about the nature of phenomena and illusions.
This is getting interesting again.... |
|
| |
|
| Cyndi I totally agree. I think that it's possible to study yoga without a living guru, but it's always better to have a one. Life itself is a guru. As I'm discussing here with you Cyndi I'm actually learning from you and you are my guru. One thing about guru diciple relationship is that both parties learn from it. There are no power games in guru / diciple relationship. Luckily I have a living guru at the moment, but he has actually helped me to get to a point where he's not (that) necessary anymore.
About Mountain Tai Chi. Actually my teacher basically said that go and do it, without specific instructions, because the system itself is supposed to teach you. Well it did and I got it how it's done. In the case of complete beginner it's probably necessary to give a bit more accurate instructions, but you don't need expensive courses for it. I know how it can be taught step by step to the total beginner, but I won't post it in public because it's a martial art system and a very effective one. Mountain Tai Chi is where the set pattern Tai Chi came from. if someone is interested to know how to learn MTC step by step I can tell it for totally free, but I won't do it in public. I will post the link to the video clips. If you have experience with Tai Chi and Yoga you can get it from the clips.
|
|
| |
|
| Hey I forgot to mention this. There is a universal knowledge bank where all the information is stored. Intuitive mind is a part of it. Part of mysticism is that you seek knowledge directly from the intuitive mind/knowledge bank/source. This is how my teacher did it and how all mystics did/do it. At one point of my process I was deeply immersed in the practice of jnana yoga as a mystic. I was doing self-enquiry with a question who Am I basically 24/7 for couple of years? Result was that I got my question answered and mostly it was beyond words. My point is that this practice can be put into category of mysticism/seeking the knowledge directly from the source and that this thing works.
The things are quite simple and you can learn things fast under a living guru. Once you've learned how to do it, basically a living guru becomes unnecessary. One thing about a living guru is that just he's presence makes things happen faster. What lights up in me, lights up in you also (yoga science basics). When I teach yoga meditation, I tell student to just relax and I will show how the meditation is done. Teacher's function is to transmit his experience to the student.
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well, this came in from the Hindu Press Internation today. I thought it was kinda funny seeing as how we were sorda having this discusion....hope you enjoy this article.
SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO, June 15, 2005: Is religion gaining ground in America, or are people simply looking harder for answers? Religion and spirituality books are selling strongly, while the number of Americans not identified with religion is rising. It appears that more and more people are seeking God on their own rather than through established belief systems, says this article. The new book "God Without Religion: Questioning Centuries of Accepted Truths" by Sankara Saranam shows seekers how to develop a direct understanding of God, unhindered by dogma, creed or ritual. At last week's BookExpo America in New York City, religion titles dominated, continuing the growth trend that showed a 17 percent gain in religious book sales in 2004 to reach US$3.8 billion. On the other hand, according to a survey by the Institute for Jewish and Community Research in San Francisco, the number of Americans with no organized religious affiliation has doubled over the last d ecade. In fact 16 percent of the population--more than 47,000,000 Americans--has no religious affiliation, the article continues. Though not yet officially released, "God Without Religion," with a foreword by nonviolence activist Arun Gandhi, has already racked up significant sales on Amazon.com, on June, 7, hitting number 65 out of the site's top 100 religion and spirituality bestsellers.
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
 
Location: A Blue State | The US has always been a rather religious place, but lately there's been a new
stridency to the public discussion. A nice commentary on this ran in the
New York Times Book Review about a month ago. It all makes me quite
sad, in the sense that the current public discourse is all about rule and strictures
and making other folks do what certain people think god requires.
I am especially sickened by the mean spirited and hateful efforts to block
gay marriage. Some of us can remember when it was "shocking" for a black
person to marry a white person. Maybe you've heard the old arguments
about "Sons of Shem"...it all makes me very sad. At the root of this is
nothing other than bigotry -- pure, simple, and still very very ugly.
But to go to Bodhisattva's point, I guess that I can only understand the
connection of man to god in the sense of item 1. in the original message
of this thread. I've never been able to accept the idea of a harsh overseer
who would create and then d@mn mankind. If he were so powerful and so
compassionate, he would not set us up for failure in that way. I find the
notion contradictory, and so I reject it. Read the Book of Job and
think about it carefully....
Bay Guy, who is evidently going to and fro in the earth, and walking up
and down upon it.
|
|
| |
|
|
But to go to Bodhisattva's point, I guess that I can only understand the
connection of man to god in the sense of item 1. in the original message
of this thread. I've never been able to accept the idea of a harsh overseer
who would create and then d@mn mankind. If he were so powerful and so
compassionate, he would not set us up for failure in that way. I find the
notion contradictory, and so I reject it. Read the Book of Job and
think about it carefully....
Bay Guy, who is evidently going to and fro in the earth, and walking up
and down upon it.
Items 1. and 2. are both true. They are options, you know free will stuff. I spent some years immersed in jnana yoga practice and I had a look at option one, but eventually ended up following the option 2. Option 1. is appealing, but to me it's a wrong way to go. Like I said option 2. is a Oh Sh*t -reality. Option 2. is beyond comprehension so mind doesn't like it a bit.
Most of the todays spiritual folks think that option 1. is the right way, but if you take a look at the world, things are not going that well. We're living in the Kali Yuga, because mankind has side tracked from the option 2.
Bay Guy, God is totally beyond comprehension. You can't actually say that God is harsh overseer and you can't understand the way He/She/It works. In union with God even God disappears.
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Bodhisattva - 2005-06-17 10:16 AM
Bay Guy, God is totally beyond comprehension. You can't actually say that God is harsh overseer and you can't understand the way He/She/It works. In union with God even God disappears.
Well, let's suppose that god is totally incomprehensible, so that we should not attempt to
understand his nature or his purposes. We are nevertheless told that god has sent us
miscellaneous rules or practices by which we may "come to him" (things like the words
of Christ or the 10 rules of Moses). Now, if god wished to communicate with
us, then he would put things into terms that were comprehensible by us, and being god
one might imagine that he would be able to do in a convincing, consistent, and self-evident
way. As that has not happened (e.g., the bible is contradictory and open to many different
interpretations), I have to conclude that if god is there he is not interested in communicating
his will to man. That being the case, he apparently doesn't care that we follow his will...
it's a matter of interpretation whether he's setting us up for failure or whether he is in
fact indifferent to our actions.
I suppose one could say that it is arrogant for a mere human to ask a god to explain
himself, but I'm really thinking from a pragmatic standpoint. If he wanted us to understand
and follow his requirements, he would present them in manner that was clear and compelling
to all of us.
|
|
| |
|
| You are right and I understand you. I'm not claiming to know anything for sure, but I feel an impulse to communicate. I just speak from my experience and what is the reality of Bodhisattva. I must admit that I believe that I have a special God given mission and that is to spread the Gospel. Everybody has wisdom and everybody has a mission. I'm just sharing mine and I appreciate you taking notice of my ramblings.
My hope is that someone who reads my ramblings would benefit from it somehow. It's always up to you to decide which way to go. Even as I confidently claim to know something that I think will benefit the whole mankind I don't claim to possess the ultimate truth only pieces of it Talking about these things doesn't have as much value as putting things in practice. My guru says that "the proof is in the pudding" and I agree. I hope and even believe that someday I will be a living example of what I preach and that is what really counts in the end. ****! now we just have to sit down and wait what happens.
I have still a one thing I want to share with you and this is the thing that turned my life as a yogi upside down (in a positive sense). If it resonates with you even a bit I wish you give it a try. This message is from my guru John M. Scott:
"The system of union with God that Jesus taught:
From a yoga science stand point the best meditation that there is and which will also give you the quickest results without creating instability, is to "Feel yourself occupied by Jesus and feel his crown of thorns on your head and feel his hands and feet as your hands and feet. Then in your minds eye reach out with both arms and give all of God's loved ones a loving hug." If a person does this meditation very much, the eye of heaven will wake up, the crown of life will wake up, the tree of life will wake up, and rivers of living water will flow from your belly. It is awesome to experience/become all these things at once. And with Jesus these things will take you into the Family of God and far beyond any place that todays yogis can take you no matter what their tradition or technique is. So if you really want to have a look at things, give that one a try. It is the system of union with God that Jesus taught. acaveyogi"
In case you got interested in my ramblings here you can read some more:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/yogimystic/
God bless you.
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I've always thought of God as being this great (unexplainable to most humans) energy source that has no mind, no judgement...a place of nothingless, but yet this energy source has all the power a human needs to survive, thrive, grow out of humaness, etc. When we are in conflict with this energy source or out of touch with it, that is where our problems occur. Sometimes we recognize it in our daily lives, sometimes we take many lifetimes to recognize that it even exists. My observance of what is happening in the world today is that MOST people are in the stage of taking many lifetimes to discover God, Buddha nature or that great energy force's existance due to their attachment to this world and material things (well, some of the reasons that is). After all we are at a place in society where we have made ourselves so comfortable with our technology and every day life...Why should we need a God, right??? Unfortunately, for most of these people they are in for a rude awakening, that is when they do wake up...it may take another major event to make this happen... I thought 911 would have done something but it only pissed off GWB and instead of waking up, he made us out to be victims and now he can justify his bloody war. It's a terrible trick that this administration has done to humankind, to the world. I can't wait for the *real* truth to be revealed...and it is coming.
Anyway, this thread and the questions about God's existence has been around for thousands of years and will continue I suppose...as long as we always recognize that our real purpose of being here is to find our SELF'S...otherwise, human life would be a waste of precious time.
Edited by Cyndi 2005-06-19 11:02 AM
|
|
| |
|
| Anyway, this thread and the questions about God's existence has been around for thousands of years and will continue I suppose...as long as we always recognize that our real purpose of being here is to find our SELF'S...otherwise, human life would be a waste of precious time.
Your right Cyndi. What I claim is that you can find your SELF on your own or with God's help (what ever God is). With God's help the process seems to progress a lot faster.
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bodhisattva - 2005-06-19 11:06 AM
Your right Cyndi. What I claim is that you can find your SELF on your own or with God's help (what ever God is). With God's help the process seems to progress a lot faster.
BUT, I say this very carefully....that it is much easier, gentler and has more quality when you have an authentic Guru who has walked the steps ahead of you to help you discover this. Who the heck knows...but what IF, the steps have already been taken for ALL of us and that we ALL actually have a guru lurking and surrounding us...whether it be in the form of human flesh or spirit. BUT, to really and truly know a spiritual guru that you have never seen is very rare and caution should be taken due to so many faulty spirits if you will or spirits that have an *evil* intention to lead someone down a dangerous or wrong path. But, then who's to say that anything is wrong and that whatever path you are on, you will eventually be led back to the right one. Reminds me of my favorite Led Zepplen tune..."Stairway to Heaven"...long version from the "Song remains the Same", 
Edited by Cyndi 2005-06-19 1:26 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Seems that Led Zeppelin wrote "Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but, in the long run,
there's still time to change the road you're on".. I don't really like to find philosophy in
rock tunes (especially ones from drug addled Tolkeinites), but the statement is perfectly
accurate. 'nuf said.
Bodi, I appreciate very much your comments and circumspection in replying to my remarks
above. I hope that your path leads you on a good road. It's not a path that I can follow,
and, believe you me, I gave it a fair shot.
Cyndi, your description of god is pretty much what I can see of god. I bow to Siva every
day, in my asana practice, as I believe that yoga is from Siva and is Siva. When I practice,
I am reaching out to Siva, and for a few instants here and there, I am with Siva. I don't know
who Siva is beyond that, and I don't know that he wants me to do anything in particular.
Perhaps Siva is simply a state of mind, perhaps something more. The distinction is not
important, is it?
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bay Guy - 2005-06-19 10:38 PM
The distinction is not important, is it?
Nope, it is not. |
|
| |
Oneness with God is a...
