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| So, how's the whole inner peace thing going?
Great! Thank you for asking.
If you call other people lesser elements, then what have you understood?
I have understood your words and responded accordingly.
Does the intelligent, wise, thoughtful man speak these words?
Yes, actually. Bullies are, by their own admission, lesser elements. When one is so insecure in his or her beliefs that he or she must thwart free discussion of other ideas as a way of re-assuring oneself then one is a bully. One becomes a bully when one feels, well, lesser. Therefore, to call a bully a lesser element is only to agree with the bully's own self-assessment. Rush Limbaugh is a bully. As is Micheal Moore. As are some on this forum.
Does love speak thusly?
Does love mock those with whom it does not agree? Let me ask you, my friend, had I posted a bible passage would you have been so quick to mock? Wait, don't answer that. The question itself is not "with love" for it leaves you no choice but to answer in such a way as to show yourself as either a hypocrit or a liar.
Bite me.
Ah yes. Love and intelligence all rolled into two little words. Enjoy the eigth grade this year. Perhaps you will have an opportunity to work on your haiku skills.
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| i really will never understand this thread....i might have had a shot when it was still about something....now it has turned into some kind of pissing contest - and for what?
who are any of us to judge the value, merit or worth of an other posters words? if you have nothing nice to say, move on to the bikram forum - just kidding! really, what is up with the negative tone? is it necessary?
i dont get it...so why am I here
i just wanted to let elson know that it wasnt even close to haiku, 5-7-5 is the format for future reference.
Edited by easternsun 2005-08-16 7:56 AM
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| glittering insult
calls coldly, regretful gem
resounding, feeble
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| This is exactly the point, easternsun. The thread was about something... but... a few bullies decided that it wasn't worthy so they made it about them. This is so typical of the spiritual arrogance displayed by some. Because it wasn't the correct dogma it was quashed. And, as is always the case with bullies, as soon as they enter the game everyone else leaves. I think that in some strange way they think that this is because they have shown everyone the light with their grand wisdom. My private messages say differently. They say that most people just don't want to bother trying to have a discussion where they know that they will be ridiculed so they just let it go. So what are the options, really? Continue on topic while certain people ridicule you? Let it go? Or try to point out the bullying and hypocrisy and allow the thread to degenerate? Sure, it is probably better to let it go. But if we say nothing then nothing changes.
Edited by Tsaklis 2005-08-16 9:09 AM
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| Wow, easternsun :-).
Nice poem! Especially the ambiguity, which becomes clearer with each reading :-).
Yeah, the format of my nonHaiku was bogus, but it had the same feeling for me :-). Especially the "bite me" at the end, which is about all that can profitably be said to trolls. |
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| Brilliant, Eastern. How about this one?
Ancient form ungrasped
Meaning slips like mercury
Eastern Sun haiku
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| In reflecting on this thread I came to a realization. My ego got the best of me, and for that I owe someone an apology. I was quick to defend the words of Lao-Tzu; too quick. Had I taken a moment to consider this I would have realized that Lao-Tzu needs no help from me. He provided a much better response to certain posters than I ever could. So.... I humbly apologize for having stepped on his toes.
From the Tao Te Ching:
When the highest type of men hear Tao,
They diligently practice it.
When the average type of men hear Tao,
They half believe it.
When the lowest type of men hear Tao,
They laugh heartily at it.
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| Tsaklis :-)
I doubt that Lao-Tzu is aware of your apology, and making a mistake in strategy (defending what needs no defense) requires no apology. And certainly a strong defense of those you revere is a good thing. So there is no need to apologise to somebody for having stepped on Lao-Tzu's toes.
And apperently you misinterpreted our banter as scathing criticism. Whatever, it happens :-). I'm a smartass at times.
But if you regret the harsh and insulting tone of your reply to me & Bay Guy, and your integrity drives you to apologise for that, then I would like to have peace between us.
Not only because you are an obviously intelligent person (albeit a bit rash :-), but because you are a fellow human.
And by peace, I do not mean the absence of conflict or disagreement, but a covenant of civility and a continuing recognition of the other as a real human being, not just words on paper. In short, respect.
So then, shall we have peace?
Edited by elson 2005-08-17 5:03 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | elson - 2005-08-17 5:02 PM
And apperently you misinterpreted our banter as scathing criticism. Whatever, it happens :-). I'm a smartass at times.
But if you regret the harsh and insulting tone of your reply to me & Bay Guy, and your integrity drives you to apologise for that, then I would like to have peace between us.
Not only because you are an obviously intelligent person (albeit a bit rash :-), but because you are a fellow human.
And by peace, I do not mean the absence of conflict or disagreement, but a covenant of civility and a continuing recognition of the other as a real human being, not just words on paper. In short, respect.
So then, shall we have peace?
I agree with all of this...ideas prove their worth by their resiliency in the face of
questions -- or ridicule -- but there's no need for it to become personal. It's important
to think critically, but better to do so dispassionately.
I do apologize myself if my June 14-15th posts were hurtful to you...I stand firmly by
the basic ideas in them, but I regret some of phrasing.
So Tsaklis, an end to all this?
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| elson,
True it is that this should end, but I feel that clarity is needed on a number of fronts. Understanding, or lack thereof, is the sole point of communication. To that end I will offer what follows.
I doubt that Lao-Tzu is aware of your apology, and making a mistake in strategy (defending what needs no defense) requires no apology. And certainly a strong defense of those you revere is a good thing. So there is no need to apologise to somebody for having stepped on Lao-Tzu's toes.
There was no strategy. I fear you overestimate my emotional involvement here. I do not hold Lao-Tzu in higher regard than I do countless other thinkers of various faiths. It was not only Lao that I was defending. I was saddened by the idea that a small minority could effect de facto censorship by virtue of negativity. As for Lao, who knows?
And apperently you misinterpreted our banter as scathing criticism.
If there was misinterpretation I can assure you it was not just mine. Did I see it as scathing criticism? Of course not. You made no comment whatsoever on the ideas presented. You merely mocked, which I found disrespectful not only to Lao, but to those who were discussing the ideas in earnest. I certianly was not something I took to be a personal attack. It was, to me, simply bad behavior.
As for the rest, again, I fear you greatly overestimate my level of emotional investment in this discussion. I do regret having not made my last post my first response. Would that have changed anything? I cannot say.
Please understand that I have never seen you, or anyone else, as anything other than human. I hold absolutely no ill will toward either of you. I cannot fathom allowing posts on an internet forum to burden one's heart and spirit. I have never disparaged either of you in any way outside of responding directly to your posts here. Having said that, I honestly do not feel that I have said or done anything to you for which I should apologize. Every one of my posts to both you and bayguy was a direct response to a post of yours. I began this thread with the words "Let's try something a little less polarizing". That was my intent. You mention my integrity, but you seem to understand little of who I am or what that means to me. My integrity is what drove me to respond in the first place. Likewise, my integrity would not allow me to offer a false apology.
Civility should always be the order of the day, and in that regard we all failed. Peace is, by definition, a lack of conflict. That is not to say a lack of disagreement or a lack of diversity in ideas or discussion. I truly believe that, given the intellectual skills demonstrated by all of us, we are more than capable of discussing and disagreeing or agreeing on any topic without resorting to disrespect. Let us not seek a manufactured peace, my friends. Instead, let us be respectful of one another and embrace the natural peace that follows. It will be a much stronger peace indeed.
namaste... and I mean that in the truest sense of the word.
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| >> I cannot fathom allowing posts on an internet forum to burden one's heart and spirit.
Do you think that all posters are like this, or have you noticed that your posts seem to cause pain to some folks? |
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| I'm sorry, friend. It really is time to set this aside. Let it go, elson. |
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| I am aware that this is somewhat uncomfortable, and of course, you are free to click to a different thread as you choose. But the you of 20, 30, or 40 years from now will be happier if you spend some time considering these things. |
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| I honestly cannot tell if you truly believe anyone is buying this, or if you just need some sense of victory that the last word provides. You really shouldn't marry yourself to outcomes, my friend. Sometimes it can make you look silly. If someone feels as if they were harmed in some way as an "innocent bystander" of sorts, I would be more than happy to offer my apologies to them if it is so merited. At present I have not heard one single voice, save yours and bayguys, who felt my responses were anything but appropriate. So, my final thoughts on this thread are simple. If you truly want peace and respect, then behave in a peaceful and respectful manner. If all you really want is to feel as if you somehow "won" something, well, there is no victory or defeat to be found here. It is what it is. If the situation is such that on some level you need the last word you may have it. I'm not out to hurt you or deprive you of anything at all. Knock yourself out. |
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| Daffy thing duplicated my post. Anyway...
namaste
Edited by Tsaklis 2005-08-22 9:11 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | You know what?? After being on my wonderful vacation out in nature...completely embraced by the mountains, the air, the water...and then to return to read this....I swear this is the stupidest thread, it literally does not make any sense. It's like watching my son when he was 8 years old argue with the neighborhood kid on the other street. Come on you guys, get with the program, grow up, this is so immature and childish....and then you throw words such as Namaste` around???? Give me a break!!  |
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Lao-Tzu quote, your thoughts?
