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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Michael, I love the Village People song "YMCA". I grew up with that song and my kids like it too:~) I can just see myself doing Ardha Chandrasana with a twist, LOL!! Very funny. Wonder if it will get me to stretch more so I can look like a Japenese Ham Sandwich instead of a Burger that's sliding off the lettuce<VBG> Let us know when you get that studio started up. Take care |
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| Golly, some of the posters sound rather like Pat in drag :-). Not that drag is a bad thing, unless of course, it is dressing up as Pat..... ok, either you get it or you don't :-).
Pat does not represent either mainstream Christianity or what Xtns call fundamentalist. Truth is, few nonXtns understand what a fundamentalist is, because the media got started confusing "fundamentalist" with "jerk." Ah well, the media own the language.
I am a Xtn theologian of one of the olde-tyme schools, so I can speak pretty accurately about matters Xtn.
I know several Xtns (& myself) who practice various styles or forms of yoga. To the extent that it can be practiced aside from Budhism, asana has no more religious significance than running. Likewise, pranayama.
That which is called yama is understood in a different way by the Xtn, although there is certainly nothing wrong with truthfulness, nonstealing, noncoveting, and such. Concentration and meditation are wonderful things, but of course there are more & less beneficial things to concentrate & meditate on, in Budhism as well as in Xtniaty.
Samadhi makes a kind of sense to Xtn mystics, but this is difficult to explain.
There irreconcilable differences between Xtniaty and all other religions, and any attempt to shoehorn Jesus or His teachings into a Budhist (or any other religion) mold will fail miserably. What Xtns must avoid while practicing yoga is the worship of anything except the Father. Since worship is primarily a matter of intention (in yogic terms :-), not outward actions, this is not difficult to achieve.
So, the upshot of this long & rambling post is that (1) Pat is a nutcase, and (2) yes, Xtns can do asana & pranayama, but may decide to pass on other aspect of yoga.
Cheers...............Dale (aka Downdawg)
Edited by elson 2005-03-13 3:28 AM
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| Thanks elson for that sensible and well reasoned post. I'm gonna repost my original post from the meditation forum for those who might've missed the beginning of the discussion, and I wonder if you care to comment. My point was not to criticize anyone, but rather to emphasise the common ground, because the question comes up so frequently here in Singapore and also on the forum.
Also, can you please explain the meaning of fundamentalist, and perhaps evangelical? Would like to get the terms straight.
Thanks
Sivaram
sivaram 2005-02-23 12:04 PM
Many Christians have doubts about trying yoga because they've been told it's bad by thier mentors (pastors, ministers, preachers...). I believe it's mainly the fundamentalists and evangelicals that object the most. Some of what they say is true, at least in terms of the goals and methods, but often their understanding is incomplete. They would also most likely take the position that Christianity is the only route to divine salvation, and that any other kind of apparently religious practices are incompatible.
Well, okay, who is to argue with them, if that is what they think, fine. No one is saying that yoga is for everyone. It's not. Yoga is for those who feel attracted to it's philosophy, aims and methods. There is no question of trying to convert anyone.
However, it's also a mistake to say that yoga is incompatible with other religious contexts outside Hinduism. Usually the problem is that no distinction is made between the different paths of yoga:
Karma, Bhakti, Raja (includes meditation and Hatha) and Jnana yogas. In the context of this discussion, Bhakti or devotion is the most important, because Christian doctrine seems to insist that Jesus is the one and only correct object of worship and devotion, and any other is unacceptable. How unfortuate for all the teeming billions who never heard of Jesus or were born in non-Christian countries.
In yoga, devotion is an important aspect of the overall set of practices. However, one may hold as one's object of worship and devotion any one of the "faces of God" to which one feels most attracted, with which there is the most identification. Therefore if one wishes to project one's devotion toward Jesus, then that is perfectly acceptable. The Absolute, or Supreme, is known as Brahaman, and is understood to be the source of all, but unknowable until one reaches the highest stage in the progression of practice, which culminates in Jnana yoga, the path of philosophical inquiry.
Because we exist on a dulaistic plane, people require something to which they can attach and direct their mental and sense faculties, a divine symbol if you will, to lead the aspirant in the direction of the Absolute. This is the meaning and purpose of the various deities, who are not mistaken for the ultimate One, but are merely faces of God we can relate to, whose virtues we aspire to, whose qualities help us to attain the final goal. They are rather like archetypes, psychic companions and protectors on the spiritual journey.
Therefore one can practice yoga and remain Christian, perhaps in the truest sense. Personally, I feel that I never understood Christinity properly until I studied and trained in yoga. All religions have exoteric or outer and esoteric or inner meanings and traditions. Judaism and Christianity no less than Islam and Hinduism. The different aspects or paths are for people who are at differents stages of their personal spiritual development. As a previous poster mentioned, Christianity has it's own meditation and ascetic traditions. However, one can also practice Hatha yoga with Christ as one's Ishta Devata, and even use a favorite Christian phrase, prayer or saying as one's mantra if practicing japa meditation. Study a little more, look into the yamas and niyamas, and you'll see there are many similarities and much common ground between all the major religions and yoga.
Fundamentalists of all stripes tend to emphasise the differences and proclaim their paths as the exclusive right way, and the others as false. That is simply the nature of religion as a political program, not as a spiritual program, in a dualistic world.
Yoga says, "the paths are many but the truth is one." The bottom line is, do what you feel like doing, as long as it helps you move toward love, truth, wisdom and justice.
Remember there are no monolithic religious entities. Christians cannot all agree as to the difinitive interpretation of Jesus' teachings. Same for the other religions. Witness the many divisions and sects in the major world religions, and all the minor religions. Philosophy and religion are really in constant historical flux. It is only the mystical strands in all faiths which assert the common threads among them, and who seek to understand and aid each other, to build bridges, not walls.
Edited by sivaram 2005-03-13 6:42 AM
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| This statement does not appear in the Bible: " Be still and you will know that you are God"
Sorry, that's a zip, zilch, nada. It's not in the text.
As for judging, the Lord Jesus was talking about judging PEOPLE. He was not saying we should not judge certain ideas as false or ridiculous, or untrue. We as sinners are condemnable before God when we judge that any person cannot be saved, cannot find grace, is completely removed from the hope of mercy from God. Look at the text: the Lord is telling His listeners not to call a man a graceless wretch, or they will put themselves in danger of being treated as a graceless wretch. He's NOT saying that we shouldn't reject bad ideas as bad ideas. In point of fact, the Lord Jesus often rebuked his followers for swallowing very bad ideas without applying the Scripture to those ideas to measure their actual worth.
To give you the short answer, of course a Christian can practice yoga. A Christian practices yoga like any other person practices yoga. You pick up the mat and go to the yoga school and start practicing yoga: Downward dog, upward dog, plank pose, etc.
But a Christian cannot believe what some religions from India teach and remain a Christian. Christianity is defined as a belief in the trinity, exclusively. It's defined as a belief in the inherent sinfulness of man; thus biblical Christianity rejects the idea that enlightenment comes from within. The first successful "Christian" sect in modern history to depart from this doctrine were the Quakers and the Inner Light groups, but they rejected the authority of Scripture. They had to. Any group that makes the Bible a sole authority recognizes that the text is quite unified in depicting that man is inherently sinful and that enlightenment can come only from God.
Now you may not like this, and you may argue it, and certainly there are groups that use the name Christian but do not recognize the Bible as the sole authority in their religious practice. Fine.
But if you define Christianity as any religious group that academically and theologically studies that Bible as its authoritative Scripture of faith and practice, then yes they can go through the postures of yoga, but they would reject many of the religious ideas that come along in the luggage with some yoga teachers.
Jeri |
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| jeriwho - 2005-03-27 8:46 PM
But a Christian cannot believe what some religions from India teach and remain a Christian. Christianity is defined as a belief in the trinity, exclusively. It's defined as a belief in the inherent sinfulness of man; thus biblical Christianity rejects the idea that enlightenment comes from within.
Would this be a fundamentalist or evangelical POV?
Yoga also teaches that 'enlightenment' (Samadhi) comes through God's grace. Going within is but one avenue to that. There are others, including some that closely resemble Christian practices, but which are of course much older.
I think it's fair to say that Yoga views man as inherintly spiritual, but ignorant or blind to this, not as inherintly sinful. We're actually inherently pure, but mistaken in identifying with the limited, phenomenal world, & therefore subject to all it's imperfections, limitations, dissatisfactions, etc....
We're only condemned by our own actions and failures of recongnition, & must reap their inevitable results. We always have the choice to rise above.
But if you define Christianity as any religious group that academically and theologically studies that Bible as its authoritative Scripture of faith and practice, then yes they can go through the postures of yoga, but they would reject many of the religious ideas that come along in the luggage with some yoga teachers.
The definition of Christianaity is one of those sticky issues Christians have famously quarrelled over for the past 2005 years (give or take). Look it up on the net and you'll see literally hundreds of groups and sub-groups all differing on the subject. BTW, the poses are not yoga proper, but a common entry point.
Yoga proper refers to meditation (again, having many avenues), something Christians do also. Of course Christians can do asanas, but the question comes up more frequently in regards to meditation or general spirituality, which are the essence of yoga, not merely the baggage of some teachers as you put it. Yoga doesn't assert the exclusivity of God to any one path, but rather that all paths lead to the One (God), and Jesus is considered a suitable figure of devotion. Hence no contradiction.
It seems to me that the more you look at it, the less differences there really are, or in any event the fewer there really need to be. Understanding (and maybe even celebrating) the similarities between one's religion and others shouldn't be frowned upon. There's more common ground that many realize.
Edited by sivaram 2005-03-26 8:38 AM
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| >>>>It's defined as a belief in the inherent sinfulness of man; thus biblical Christianity rejects the idea that enlightenment comes from within.<<<<
>>Would this be a fundamentalist or evangelical POV?<<
It's the historic Protestant point of view, the Reformation point of view, the Pauline point of view, and the basis for the New Testament books of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, I&II Corinthians and probably all the others, though these make express reference to it.
When the Lord Jesus asked the doubters if it was more difficult to say "rise and walk" to a lame man or "Your sins are forgiven", He was alluding to the basic doctrine of man's sinfulness and innate inability to approach God. And His audience understood and agreed with this doctrine. They all held the viewpoint that man is born in sin, with a sinful nature. That's why they were stunned when He expressly said that He had the authority to forgive sins (because they assumed him to be merely a man and therefore a sinner) and then He proved His Godhood by saying to the lame man "Take up your bed and walk" and the lame man did so. The Lord Jesus expressly linked His power to heal with His authority and divine nature.
Any Christian sect that relies upon the Bible as the authoritative text holds this view. That includes Evangelicals but also any historic Protestant statement of faith. The Westminster Confession, for instance, expresses it very clearly.
Christian sects have quarreled over the definition of Christianity, but that doesn;t mean there is no definition. Obviously, the religion based on Christ has to go back to Christ.
But it's true: there are people who call themselves Christians who deny the godhood of Christ, the reality of the Resurrection, etc. I'm sure they would run after yoga just like they run after evey other fad that whispers "spirituality" to them.
But those Christians that define Christianity by what the Bible teaches would reject self enlightenment and any form of diety that is not expressly the trinity.
At the same time, there is nothing in assuming certain postures that pays homage to other gods or notions of self enlightenment. I use yoga to stretch my back and hamstrings. It's very effective. But my faith and all my expectations rest on Christ and Christ alone. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
 
Location: A Blue State | jeriwho - 2005-03-26 10:15 AM
>>>>It's defined as a belief in the inherent sinfulness of man; thus biblical Christianity rejects the idea that enlightenment comes from within.<<<<
>>Would this be a fundamentalist or evangelical POV?<<
It's the historic Protestant point of view, the Reformation point of view, the Pauline point of view, and the basis for the New Testament books of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, I&II Corinthians and probably all the others, though these make express reference to it.
Any Christian sect that relies upon the Bible as the authoritative text holds this view. That includes Evangelicals but also any historic Protestant statement of faith. The Westminster Confession, for instance, expresses it very clearly.
Christian sects have quarreled over the definition of Christianity, but that doesn;t mean there is no definition. Obviously, the religion based on Christ has to go back to Christ.
But it's true: there are people who call themselves Christians who deny the godhood of Christ, the reality of the Resurrection, etc. I'm sure they would run after yoga just like they run after evey other fad that whispers "spirituality" to them.
But those Christians that define Christianity by what the Bible teaches would reject self enlightenment and any form of diety that is not expressly the trinity.
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I don't like to argue about matters of faith, and I certainly respect your particular interpretation
of Christianity, which is shared among many other christians. But...I will note the following:
* There are a number of other Christian texts that did not make it into today's Bible.
These include accounts of the life of Jesus Christ that were written within 200 years of
his time on Earth. I'm not qualified to give a scholarly evaluation of those texts, but my
understanding is that they are of equal historical significance to other parts of the
New Testament. These documents include, but are not limited to, the Dead Sea Scrolls
and the so-called Gnostic Gospels.
* The texts that were included/excluded in today's Bible were more or less finalized
by various European bishops somewhere around 400 AD, long after the time of Christ.
These bishops chose not to include some of the above texts (which they had and which
were in use at the time) for various reasons that scholars have debated over the years.
* Some of the texts that were excluded include teachings attributed to Christ that do not
hinge on the notion of "original sin", to the best of my memory.
* And, here I will strain my memory a bit more, I believe that there are Christian
religions today that do not follow the notion of sin and salvation as outlined in the
above posts.
I really don't want to debate the correct interpretation of Christianity, which I believe is
a personal matter. I simply point these things out to show that there's a basis for people
to follow Christ's great teachings without accepting a strict bibical interpretation.
The bible as we use it today was written and actively filtered by men based upon their
particular interpretation of Christianity...to me, this implies that other interpretations are
possible.
Edited by Bay Guy 2005-03-26 11:32 AM
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| I repsect what you have to say, Bay Guy. I am also straining to recall, but I believe that any Eastern Christian sect would reject the totality of total depravity. But then, so would Roman Catholicism. I don't think their doctrine favors self enlightenment, so much as it emphasizes a significant role of the church and sacraments as a necessary part of spiritual growth.
In the 1500's, when the *the* church (ie, the papacy) was corrupt, it was challenged by a new scholarship. Religious scholars from all Romance language countries independently studied the Bible text for what it actually said. Jon Wycliffe had actually made his start in England in the late 1300's but was just about unknown in other countries, and Jon Hus had also created a sort of mini-Reformation in Bohemia (now Austria-Hungary) before Luther nailed his theses to the door in the 1500's. The major players, Martin Luther in Germany, John Calvin in France and Geneva, Ulrich Zwingli in Switzerland, and the Oxford Martyrs in England (William Tyndale and Matthew Coverdale; Hugh Latimer as well. These would be three of the best known men), studied out the text of the accepted Bible and they all reached pretty much the same conclusions about the bondage of the will, the depravity of man, justification by faith, the authority of the Bible, and the sovereign Grace of God.
Yes, they limited authoritative Scripture to just that text. As they became more acquainted with each other, they realized that they were in consensus on every major doctrine, and so they agreed that in spite of certain differences like mode of baptism, method of the Lord's supper, and system of church government infrastructure, they were in unity on the essentials of Christian faith. One result of their consensus was the Westminster Confession of Faith. But this group of Bible scholars formed the basis of historic Protestant belief. That's what I am referring to. Of course, many Evangelicals today trace their doctrine back to the Protestant consensus and even the Westminster Confession of Faith.
Christians who hold to these essentials would reject any religion of self-enlightenment or any religion that excludes or denies the trinity.
So if you ask, Can a Christian practice yoga, you have to define "Christian," and you have to define "yoga." Anybody, as far as I can see, can assume the postures with no alteration of their doctrinal beliefs. But if you include beliefs in self enlightenment with yoga or define yoga as a form of spiritual self enlightenment, then no, a Christian defined by the historic Protestant definition would not swallow it. We believe that every man is sinful and that he cannot be enlightened from within. We are completely dependent upon God, through the office of Christ our High Priest, to declare us justified before God and to act in us to sanctify us and cause us to grow in faith in Him. There is no other salvation, and there is no other Atonement.
However, I have no fear of what others believe that yoga does for them. I use yoga as a great means to stretch my back and hamstrings, and I rest my faith on Christ. So again, if you dfine yoga as a series of postures, it shouldn't violate anybody's conscience.
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Expert Yogi
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Location: A Blue State | jeriwho - 2005-03-26 2:31 PM
So if you ask, Can a Christian practice yoga, you have to define "Christian," and you have to define "yoga." Anybody, as far as I can see, can assume the postures with no alteration of their doctrinal beliefs. But if you include beliefs in self enlightenment with yoga or define yoga as a form of spiritual self enlightenment, then no, a Christian defined by the historic Protestant definition would not swallow it. We believe that every man is sinful and that he cannot be enlightened from within. We are completely dependent upon God, through the office of Christ our High Priest, to declare us justified before God and to act in us to sanctify us and cause us to grow in faith in Him. There is no other salvation, and there is no other Atonement.
Thanks, Jeri. That's an interesting line of thought. As long as you are describing the
structure of ideas as your particular set of beliefs (shared with other of your faith, of course),
there's nothing here to disagree with. As you noted somewhere in your previous posts,
other christians don't follow the bible quite so strictly, even if they have their roots
in protestant thought.
Devotion to god is one of the elements of conduct prescribed in the sutras (II-45, I think),
so I'm not sure that it is quite accurate to think of yoga as a path to "self" enlightenment.
In fact, as I think about that more, many people I know who pratice yoga seriously are doing
it as a path to union with god. Very different than the christian path (certainly as you have
defined it), but hardly something man does without god. |
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| Well, first I have to correct a previous statement. A reader wrote to remind me that Bohemia became part of the Czech Republic, not Austrio-Hungary, though it may have been a part of the Austrio Hungary empire for a while.
Next, your comment, Bay Guy, raises a question from me. Yoga itself, like the term "Christian" is a large and diverse group of beliefs, right? Isn't there significant diversity within "yoga"?
Jeri |
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| Dear Jeri:
I do not know whether you mind my intrusion. However, I want to give input: Yoga is NOT a system of belief. Yoga is a perfected science and can be tried out by any person of any belief/faith. Also, being a science it can not be violated or even avoided. That means, a person wishing to reach the Realization has to tread the path of Yoga, no matter what.
Now, there is a diversity in Yoga only in the means of practices. The diversity is most when the practice is at a gross level, when it goes subtler, the diversity reduces, then it reaches the bliss where the diversity is zero, then at the ego level there is NO diversity except assuming one id different from the God. In Samadhi, the entire diversity disappears.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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| kulkarnn - 2005-03-26 9:13 PM
That means, a person wishing to reach the Realization has to tread the path of Yoga, no matter what.
Hmm, well, we'll see.
--Jeri |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | jeriwho - 2005-03-26 8:11 PM
Next, your comment, Bay Guy, raises a question from me. Yoga itself, like the term "Christian" is a large and diverse group of beliefs, right? Isn't there significant diversity within "yoga"?
Jeri
I will defer to Brother Neel's answer to the question of diversity. He is wiser than I am, and I
find that what he wrote seems very accurate.
On Neel's statement about the necessity of treading the path of yoga, I find it interesting
to compare Christ's statements about how people should treat one another and conduct
themselves to the similar prescriptions in the Yoga Sutras. We had a substantial discussion
of this several months ago (someplace in the general meditation forum). To my eye, the
Yamas (of the Sutras) can be found in Red Letter text in the book of Luke and elsewhere
in the New Testament. On these fundamental issues, there is no difference.
Bay Guy
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| Bay Guy - 2005-03-26 10:02 PM
On Neel's statement about the necessity of treading the path of yoga, I find it interesting
to compare Christ's statements about how people should treat one another and conduct
themselves to the similar prescriptions in the Yoga Sutras.
It's been pointed out for centuries that the morality Christ taught is almost universal. It was certainly not at all new to Judaism. His teachings on caring for others, forgiving others, and trusting God are all found in abundance in the Old Testament and have their counterparts in most major religions. How to acquire the power to live that way and consistently practice such goodness is where the major religions may split off from each other. |
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| If you go back to the foundation of any organized faith in this world, you'll find the tenants are the same. Respect, honesty, patience, non-greediness, and doing the right thing (not the easy thing!).
I always wonder at the question of Christians Practicing yoga. Christ didn't refuse people of other faiths. In his time all there were were people of other faiths! He said that he is the way, but he didn't reject and condemn those that were NOT of his way. He offered patience, confidence that they would come to him in their own time. Ah well.
Happy Easter for those of you who practice Christianity!
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| Dear Jeri:
I am little confused at what you wrote in the previous post. I thought you restated exactly what Brother Bay Guy wrote. Let me copy if below. Now, my additio is this: Yes, that is exactly what Patanjali wrote. Now, Patanjali is distillation of Advaita Vedanta. See previous many posts regarding this. Now, as for time frame: Jesus Christ is around 0 A.D or 0 B.C. Patanjali is around 250 B.C. Buddha is 300 B.C. Mahabharata 3200 B.C. And, Vedas are more than 10000 years B.C. Neel Kulkarni www.authenticyoga.org
Bay Guy - 2005-03-26 10:02 PM
On Neel's statement about the necessity of treading the path of yoga, I find it interesting
to compare Christ's statements about how people should treat one another and conduct
themselves to the similar prescriptions in the Yoga Sutras.
Jeri: to above
It's been pointed out for centuries that the morality Christ taught is almost universal. It was certainly not at all new to Judaism. His teachings on caring for others, forgiving others, and trusting God are all found in abundance in the Old Testament and have their counterparts in most major religions. How to acquire the power to live that way and consistently practice such goodness is where the major religions may split off from each other.
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| Yes, Bay Guy and I were agreeing on the morality of Christ's teachings. I didn't mean to confuse you. Sorry. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Of course, we were also agreeing on the morality of Patanjali's sutras.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | YogaDancer wrote:
Happy Easter for those of you who practice Christianity!
and Cyndi is puzzled??
Why are you only wishing Happy Easter to just those who practice Christianity?? I'm Hindu.... I celebrated Easter too!! We had Nepalis friends over this weekend...we ate Easter Candy, celebrated Holi and they got Easter Baskets filled with Easter goodies. If Neelbhai was here I would have given him an Easter Basket filled with Mangoes So, Happy Easter YogaDancer. |
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| Although it certainly wasn't meant to be an inclusive well-wish, admitedly, my thoughts were for those Christian celebrating the elevation of Jesus.
That Hindus, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists would make a special celebration out of the day hadn't really crossed my consciouness.
I know lots of people who use any faith's holiday as a reason to eat like pigs, enjoying candy, and a reason to get together with family, watch the boob-tube (read: Easter and Thanksgiving and the Great Sportsman's Holiday, Super Bowl), etc., but as a holiday of faith? The odds present it as unlikely to someone not born into that faith. The holidays of a childhood are the last elements a convert lets go. Perhaps I should say it is the icons that are last released, such as the Easter Bunny, Santa's gift giving, etc?
So Cyndi? Happy Easter (or enjoy Easter icons) in your Hindu Home. I didn't intend to leave anyone out.
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| YogaDancer - 2005-03-28 8:16 AM
Although it certainly wasn't meant to be an inclusive well-wish, admitedly, my thoughts were for those Christian celebrating the elevation of Jesus.
Thank you! It was a great day to remember the Resurrection. Age and a certain propensity to obesity made me skip the chocolate bunnies (*sniff!*), but the singing at church was great, the sermon was great, and it was a day of good reflection on the sacrific and triumph that set me free and changed my life.
Best wishes,
Jeri |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | For the record. Actually, my celebrating Easter, Christmas or whatever has NOTHING to do with my reminents from my childhood as far as letting go from any kind of conversion. It has everything to do with the fact that I respect my children and my family who are not of my Hindu faith and I honor them - so does my Hindu husband and other Hindu friends that are a part of our lives. Even my Tibetan Monk friends and Tibetan friends do the same thing with their Buddhist faith. In fact, my guru teaches to keep my Christian upbringing in its proper perspective - which is what I do. If I did not celebrate my children's holiday's with them what kind of Mother would I be?? If I didn't honor my Father and his belief's what kind of child would I be?? So, instead of being indifferent to them and causing a possible upset in their world's, I choose to make them happy, which is really what being Christ-like is all about, right?? My Father respects the Hindu faith more because I don't try to impose my belief's on him, my children have more respect for me too. It's called setting and living an example which is more important as far as I'm concerned. There are so many factors at play here. Soo, if I were to be limiting to just my faith and belief's...THAT would definitely be closed minded and that I am not. I just wanted to clarify that with no hard feelings as your post about eating like pigs, enjoying candy and a family or friends gathering was rather insulting because I really can't see fault in that as celebrations are usually done in this manner. You haven't lived until you've celebrated a true Nepalis, Tibetan or Indian holiday celebration. My children, family and friends are lucky that they get to experience all of this with me and my Hindu family!! Talk about Diversity and broadening their spiritual knowledge!! |
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| Uh-huh.
Frankly, I could care less if someone were offended by my observation about eating like pigs. I'd tend to say it struck too close to home, if they did. The "normal" behavior for Americans, when faced with the opportunity to celebrate anything is to eat and/or drink themselves into a stupor. If there is any doubt about this, simply take a look at the grocery store sales and discounts on the "fixins" for holiday meals.
I find it interesting to note how personally you took my well-wish. I don't exclude anyone, but for those celebrating a pivotal event of their faith? Sure. I honor that before any other celebrant's reasons. So figure my wish is for your kids and in-laws if you would like. And for those celebrating with, enjoying the glow of faith.
But then, I know far too many Christians who don't really even know what Easter is. Before I assume there is that glow in your or any other family, I'd tend to want to observe their every-other-day honoring of their faith. Out of curiosity, that is. Not only is it interesting to observe hypocrisy, but also one who lives the tenants of their faith. Diversity is the greatest gift, and everywhere we look, if we open our eyes. Being human means diversity!
Dig my thorn out of your skin, though, Cyndi. Wasn't 'bout you!
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| Well I am definitely forum challenged since I thought I already posted a reply to this but it disappeared. If it comes up twice now please forgive me. Here goes again:
Jeri wrote: "We believe that every man is sinful and that he cannot be enlightened from within. We are completely dependent upon God, through the office of Christ our High Priest, to declare us justified before God and to act in us to sanctify us and cause us to grow in faith in Him."
To this I would like to respectfully suggest that logically, it seems that if God and Christ are the source of enlightenment, and Christ is now in us, then enlightenment surely does come from within.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Uh Huh back at ya Yoga Dancer. You know, frankly, the only thing that struck a *nerve* with me was how your comments could be so hateful, demeaning, insulting and downright judgemental about how Americans and other countries celebrate in their traditions. Seems to me that you are the one with the problem. There is nothing wrong with how Americans, or anyone else celebrates and to put a label on it as if it were bad or wrong, is IMO a stupid observation and a very closed minded one at that!!
The issues you have with the grocery stores and over consumption is not limited to holidays, it is an overall issue in general. So, to label everyone in that category because they want to celebrate is totally ridiculous and outrageous to say the least. Attacking it from your angle and perspective is not going to make a difference or a change for the better. I hope one day you can come down off your *do good throne* and *holier than thou* attitude and join the rest of us as we celebrate life and show people by demonstration and by being a good example. I find it funny that you have a problem with your country's own traditions - its mind boggling to me that you posted so harshly the way you did. Where is your compassion?? Where is your tolerance?? Don't worry, I can handle all your thorns, I really don't care what you think about me and what I do. Pettiness is something that I don't deal in. Have a wonderful day |
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Can Christians Practice Yoga?
