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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State |
I sometimes feel that studying the sutras in Sanskrit makes it harder for
me to absorb the concepts in them. For those of us know only a few
words of Sanskrit, and no grammar at all, why bother working with the
Sutras in anything other than our own language (e.g., English). For example,
one doesn't normal study the Christian Bible in Aramaic or Ancient Greek.
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| Dear BG:
There are people who study bible in other languages. In fact, the missionaries print them in different languages with the purpose of converting others.
The Sutras need to be studied in the language one can read and understand. However, the person who put them in that language, must know the correct Sanskrit Meaning. Otherwise, the idea can never be expressed correctly. For example, mind in English does NOT mean mana, chittam, buddhi, indriya, antahkarana in Sanskrit. So, when one explains that word mind during the Sutra study, they have to explain it well. I tried this during my speeches.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Then what is the purpose of chanting the Sutras in Sanskrit?
I enjoy doing it, but I'd memorize the meanings much faster
if I were to chant them in English, although I suppose that might
sound a little weird!
Sri mat Patanjali maha muniyeh namah:
Atta Patanjala yoga sutra....
etc etc |
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| Hi Neel,
I was looking at buying a translation of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and wasn't sure which one would be a good one, as you pointed out, alot depends on the person translating....I have just ordered The Heart of Yoga by TKV Desikachar, apparently there is a section in the book on the Sutras, I wonder if his translation is much different to others....BKS Iyengar's Light on the Sutras was another book I almost bought...have you any recommendations?
Thanks
Laura |
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| Dear BG:
Advantage of Chanting the Sutras - To memorize them. Advantage of Memorization - Contemplation and Reference when needed.
Dear Loli:
For recommendations: See the postings under the General meditation last thread.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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| BG.
I know allot of Bible people who take Hebrew and Greek just so they can read the bible in the native tongue for a better understanding. I m the guy who would just take their word for it. One time a couple a friends got into a disagreement of the word english word love and that the greeks had several words to descibe different flavors of love. I don't know it is all greek to me. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | kulkarnn - 2005-02-27 4:00 PM
Dear BG:
Advantage of Chanting the Sutras - To memorize them. Advantage of Memorization - Contemplation and Reference when needed.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
Dear Neel,
I agree that chanting helps memory. My problem is that I am memorizing a
language that I barely understand. Maybe the Sutras can be set into English
in a chantable meter....
BG |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Balen ---
I know yoga people who are learning Sanskrit just so they can study
the Sutras and the Bhagavad Gita.
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| Dear BG:
Let me correct myself. Chanting is for memorization of the sutra and also the understood meaning of it along with it. And, then use them for reference and contemplation. Now, the meaning of the Sutra must come from direct or indirect Sanskrit Source or Teacher. When you explain, it can be in any language.
To convert Sutras into English is NOT an easy task. But, that is not a bad idea. For example, my book Health and Yoga Aphorisms of SaeeTech, which is a classic of 21st Cetury, is available in 11 languages in Aphorism form. However, I had to spend many hours to explain the translator so that the meaning is same as I worte originally. Now, fyi, the original is in English. The last translation done is in Sanskrit, by the Scholar Dr. Deviprasad Kharavandikar and it is a Sanskrit Verse. I can sing it in a Classical Indian Tune.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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| Dear Sivaram:
kulkarn:
Are you refering to Patanjali re: God's Grace is must for Asamprajnata Samadhi? (the later is definitely a word from Patanjali)
No, and when I refer to him I’ll usually try to follow the practice of providing a citation and support. The Yoga Sutra is a terse outline, and difficult to understand without the commentaries provided by Vyasa and others, and one's own teachers. So I am going outside the text when I make the claim that God's grace is necessary, as this is the teaching in my tradition. I’ve read and heard this many times, although referring to Asamprajnata Samadhi may not be technically correct, and should perhaps be just Samadhi, without reference to that stage.
Vyasa’s (yes, obviously it’s not the same Vyasa as the author of the Mahabharata) commentary on Sutra 1:23
Or by special devotion to the Lord (to reach Samadhi)
says this: “As a result of the special devotion which is bhakti (love of God) the Lord bends down to him and rewards him according to what he has meditated on. If the yogin has meditated on it, the attainment of samadhi and its fruit is near at hand.”
Neel, what’s your feeling on this?
I like the modification you made from Asamprajnata to only Samadhi while refering to your Devotion topic. Yes, I like the above statekents related to Patanjali commentary. The sutra: ishwarapranidhaanaadvaa truely means that Asamprajnata samadhi which is in the previous sutra is Also (va) obtainable by Devotion to Ishwara.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Oh please do not change the Sutra's to English for chanting...I visited a Tibetan Buddhist Temple once where they did that...it didn't sound good and I didn't like it at all. The Tibetan Temple that I did visit regularly did not do that and we learned to chant in Tibetan and it had more power even if we didn't know the entire meaning. It takes time to learn it all and it doesn't matter. This is the same now when I chant Mantras and Sutras. I learn the Sanskrit meaning and chant in the proper way. The Sutras and Mantras just have so much more power in their original form and they have so much more meaning this way. The English Language words cannot describe them fully...trust me. It would be like diluting the Sanskrit Language...kinda like drinking a half glass of orange juice with a half glass of water. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I would also like to add to my post after more contemplating and speaking with Satyam. He explained to me in his very simple terms and I'm sure NeelBhai will have lots to add.... Satyam pointed out to me about Sanskrit (which was taught to him by his Mother as a child - his interpretation to me is in very simple terms on a simple level) that Sanskrit is the Universal Language - the orginal and all languages came from it. It is also the language that the God's used when they were on the Earth and when the earth was in a more pure form..i.e. Krishna, etc. By speaking in Sanskrit you are directly talking with God and when you speak the Sutras and Mantras in English, its like a process that takes too long - too much red tape and the meaning is not as clear...so by chanting in Sanskrit, even though you may not know the meaning today, next week or month or years...one day, that Mantra will give you your answer - you will know. He also mentioned that 2 lines of Sanskrit can make up 3-4 pages of meaning, which I think most everyone knows that. I thought that was interesting and was basically what I was trying to say too. But, if you want to change them to English, you have my blessing, it was just wierd when I went to that Temple and heard that, it just felt like chanting words and not much meaning was there and it wasn't strong like speaking in Sanskrit. Maybe this is because I've been in the temples where all they do is chant is Sanskrit, and I'm sometimes clueless about the meaning, but it is getting to the point where I sometimes understand too - naturally. Like I chanted the Navagraha Pooja the other day and like I didn't have a choice, you have to in order to do the pooja...and yes, I felt something and it was good - feels more comfortable than when I first started.
Edited by Cyndi 2005-02-28 7:54 PM
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| There is something special about Sanskrit in terms of its phoneticism, pronunciation, and relationn to vibrationns produced, no doubt. I have experienced this myself, so no doubt about it.
Now, about God's living on earth when it was pure, their talking in that language, etc are all Interpretations. I do not wish to open this can of worms, soory of Gods!!!
Sanskrit is NOT the Mother of all languages. I am hundred percent sure that Sanskrit and English come from one other language which existed before. I can not discuss this topic more here for lack of time. If you are interested, you can probably search on the Net.
Now, there is one thing I wish to point out, with advanced apologies if I misunderstood the original statements of Sister Cyndi:
When sister Cyndi talks about sutras and mantras for chanting, I think she is taling about tibetan sutras which are also mantras. Patanjali sutras are NOT really mantras, though I myself worship them like mantras. The Patanjali sutras are aphorisms, which mean lot of meaning in short space, same as what Sister Cyndi wrote.
I do feel that one should memorize Sanskrit Aphorisms if possible, but one must know the meaning of the words in Sanskrit. Otherwise, one may do that in whatever language, if the translation is accurate. However, this has a danger of diversion more and more with time when more translations in many a langugages take place.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | the post above is SPAM. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | kulkarnn - 2005-03-01 10:55 AM
I do feel that one should memorize Sanskrit Aphorisms if possible, but one must know the meaning of the words in Sanskrit. Otherwise, one may do that in whatever language, if the translation is accurate. However, this has a danger of diversion more and more with time when more translations in many a langugages take place.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
This has made me want to have a glossary of Sanskrit words found in the Yoga Sutras.
I think there may be one in Desikachar (I'll check later), but does anybody have a
recommendation on a glossary?
There's at least one Sanskrit dictionary available for download in pdf format, but that's
got far more words that needed to deal with the Sutras.
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| dear Bay Guy:
I have not read Desikachar. You may find one of Joseph Chappel or someone bby that last name. That has each word given. My translation will be complete when I finish my speeches in May. The first chapter is complete so far. At that time, I shall probably make a glossary of terms.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Can I have a copy of your glossary NeelBhai? Please, Please?? |
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| Cyndi - 2005-03-05 11:48 AM
Can I have a copy of your glossary NeelBhai? Please, Please??
CyndiBen:
Thanks for quoting kitaro. I bow down to him several times. My translation with glossary will be complete after a few months. You will see it on the www.authenticyoga.org. At present, if you wish to purchase the Patanjali Chapter 1 Speeches Video (7 hours total), it is available. 75 dollars inncluding mailing in USA.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Brother Neel,
Is this video tape or DVD? |
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| I have made this in a video CD which can be observed using
a) computer CD drive
b) computer DVD drive
c) commercial DVD player
I can also make this into a VHS tape someone wants so, but I shall charge 25 dollars to transfer all these 7 to VHS tape.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
You need to get this all onto your web site.
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| OK Brother BG, I shall do this tomorrow, Saturday.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Here's a site with the Sutras online.
http://www.bindu.freeserve.co.uk/yoga/yogasutra/overview.htm
It has Desikachar's translation as the main text, but it also gives
comparitive translations for each sutra (as on the following link)
http://www.bindu.freeserve.co.uk/yoga/yogasutra/ys2_comments.htm#sutra2.28
I've found this site very useful.
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| Hello Brother BG:
Now the entire Patajali Speeches are reccorded on Video CD. They are 17 hours. They can be purchased from me for 175 dollars including shipping.
Regards
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Yoga Sutra Study
