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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | Thushara - 2005-06-15 11:36 PM
Poor Turtle 
Yes, I know.... |
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| The problem I'm facing with being vegetarian (besides living with meat eaters and eating at restaurants) is that I'm eating an ungodly amount of cheese. I feel like I eliminated all this unhealthy, saturated fat from my diet by cutting out meat but then I'm eating cheese which may be just as unhealthy. Any suggestions? |
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| Have you ever tried soy cheese? It tastes different, and melts kinda like Velveeta so it's a good alternative for things like mac & cheese (whole wheat mac, of course!). It's not bad in a calzone.
Why do you think you're eating so much cheese? Are you trying to get your protein there, or is it just the only veggie food you can find? When I first went veggie, I didn't know how to cook, and didn't know much about different foods (sheltered upbringing!) so I was eating frozen cheese pizzas by the ton. Sure it's veggie, but not very healthy! Also was rather constipating. So, I started buying cookbooks and experimenting, and learned how to cook. Now there are a lot more frozen veggie meals on the market, so it's a little bit easier than it used to be (if convenience or lack of cooking time/ability is the problem).
If you're using it for protein, consider more whole-grain sources and beans. Beans are great! Especially soybeans - they actually are the only legume that contains more protein than carbs. But other beans are great for you too, packing lots of nutrients & fiber as well as protein.
I find that nowadays, I sure enjoy my cheese as much as the next person (perhaps more), but I've scaled it back a lot. A little sprinkle of parmesan or romano really goes a long way. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| eeeewwww! Soy cheese is yucky  Although I admit it is approximate to processed cheese slices (what my family calls "plastic" cheese and still the best for real grilled cheeses) and I do like soy cream cheese.
One thing about the vegetarian issue. If you are substituting cheese for most of your protein, you might want to think about how much protein you ate before you switched. For example, if you used to just have toast or cereal for breakfast, you don't have to add cheese to that meal. I think the main thing with cheese is that it tastes good, the high sodium content is sooooo addictive and it is easy, easy, easy. My DH goes through far too much cheese just because it is there. He'll do the same with nuts if I keep them around so I have to hide mine sometimes...like a little squirrel! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Cheese is soooo constipating. I love it, but I don't eat it. I do however eat goat cheese, cream cheese and lite parmesan cheese, cottage cheese...all in very moderate amounts and with lots of veggies. Every Oriental person I've ever known that was in the medical field by way of Traditional Chinese Medicine does not each cheese. Course they have kids over here in America that love the traditional cheese and Pizza. It's interesting. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| China is not a big dairy consuming country as a rule, I think. It would be interesting to know all the historical, anthrolopological and geo/agricultural reasons why that is so. I feel that the health reasons behind the local customs usually have a lot to do with the general conditions in the area. I know that many hot countries believe it is unhealthy to drink very cold drinks when you are hot. Health? or just that it is convenient to believe that when the opportunity to do it is almost non-existent? Similarly, many of the cultures that are primarily vegetarian simply could not support the livestock necessary to feed their populations serious amounts of meat. I am sure Inuit people do not have rules about drinking cold water and being vegetarian above the Arctic Circle would be - well, let's say unhealthy at best! |
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| so many misconceptions about saturated fat. first, saturated fat isn't unhealthy. in fact, saturated fat--in the right quantities--is healthy for you. the body doesn't store dietary saturated fat, either. saturated fat is converted into energy. the second use for saturated fat is in cell membrane maintenance and construction. unsaturated fat is used to maintain the electrical (neurological) processes of the body as well as cell membrane construction, and is only secondarily used as a form of energy if all of these processes (electrical and membrane).
the real issue of saturated fat isn't dietary saturated fat from meat, dairy, and eggs, but rather how the body converts starches (from whole food sources) and refined sugars (white sugar, flour, etc) into fat and saturated fat--which is stored in the body or floats in the blood stream as the 'sticky fat' (sticky, saturated fat) which is part of the process of clogging arteries (which actually starts with an injury to the arteries because of free radicals, then the body trying to repair the artery, thereby making it thicker, and then the saturated fat becomes problematic). So, the real issue of saturated fat isn't what one takes in from the diet--whether that's from plant or animal sources (because there are plant sources of saturated fat, for example olive oil, hemp oil, palm kernel oil, coconut oil, etc--all of which people consider healthy) but rather the refined sugars and excess starches that your body *turns into* saturated fat and stores throughout the body and in the blood stream!
(btw, you can learn more about fats in the book Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill by Udo Erasmus, PhD--a biochemist who emphasizes on lipid research; and in Know Your Fats by Mary Enig, PhD--who is also a biochemist who emphasizes on lipid research). If you want to know how cholesterol works--and how dietary cholesterol likely isn't a problem for 70% or more of the affluent world population, let me know. 
Now, to the issue of cheese.
I do not eat much cheese--perhaps 2-3 servings a day. I do eat 'a lot' of eggs--according to some sources--usually 2-4 a day. But, for the most part, it isn't necessary to consume a lot of cheese to be vegetarian. There are plenty of healthy foods with more than enough protien and fat to be satisfying and to meet your nutritional requirements. If you need help with a menu or meal plan, please let me know.
the reason why cheese in the US particularly is so very constipating is because of how it is made. If you ran a little personal experiment you'll begin to learn why. If you purchase traditionally made cheese--made from raw milk/cream, appropriately processed and aged--you'll likely discover that these are not as constipating, in fact, are not at all constipating. Most american cheese are, in my experience, entirely fake cheeses. It begins with the pasturization and homogenization process. Then, it's often 'quick fermented' rather than aged--which means that the various bacteria and fungi don't have the opportunity to break down the lactose (the reactive or constipating element) which is how cheese is made. Cheese has very little lactose in it's final product--which is why it is the most easily digestable form of dairy product for adults. Also, many american cheeses are 'low fat' or 'nonfat'--which is a skimmed product. A cheese that is stripped of it's fat is predominently lactose and some protien (casein, among others). This higher sugar, less fermented, low protien, highly processed, and in many cases preservative and chemical saturated cheese-like product is certainly going to cause constipation.
if you do choose to consume dairy products, i would highly suggest, again, raw dairy products. You want products that are full fat (as the fat carries the nutrients) and have not been pasturized. Organic Valley carries a number of traditional, raw cheeses. If you can't get raw cheeses in your area, there is a back door--imported cheeses. I buy most of my cheese that isn't local from danish sources. Look for labels that say "whole cream" or with the first ingredient being 'cream' as this usually indicates that the product is raw or unpasturized. often, the second ingredient will be pasturized whole milk--but the enzymatic structure from the cream and the fermentation process via bacteria and fungi will consume most if not all of the lactose before the cheese is finished.
it may also be helpful to note that cheese goes in phases: soft-hard-soft. The first kind of soft cheese--for example, cream cheese and ricotta--is a cheese that is less aged and thereby less fermented. This means the lactose content will be higher than the other two kinds of cheese, and may be more 'constipation inducing' than the other forms. Yet, because it is higher in fat than most pasturized, processed, american cheeses, it is less likely to cause constipation (or causes less severe constipation) than american cheeses. The second kind of cheese--hard cheeses--are often those that are longer fermented. Hard cheeses include frim cheeses that you can slice, that aren't necessarily squishy to the touch or easily melt in your hand or mouth. they also include really hard cheeses such as parmisano and bleu cheese. These cheeses have far less lactose than the soft cheeses and if they are raw/unpasturized and heavy in cream, then they'll less likely and in many cases completely unlikely to cause constipation. The third kind of cheese is the last 'soft' kind, which can be called 'smelly' cheeses. These are the cheeses that are really aged and often very soft because of the process. these are the cheeses that most americans turn a nose at, while the french go bananas for them. These have little to no lactose, as the fermentation process has reached it's completion, meaning that no sugar is left for the bacteria or fungi (or both) to consume. Therefore, these cheeses likely won't cause any problem with lactose intolerance.
It may be a good idea, when consuming cheese, to look at the ways that cheese producing societies consume cheese. In india, for example, cheese is consumed in soft-cheese forms--such as 'cottage cheese' and 'cheese balls' which are made in the pan from the whole milk and a bit of lemon juice. Paneer is an example. Obviously, these do not have long to ferment--a day at most--and will be high in lactose. I've noticed that indian portion sizes of dairy are not great. Cream is used in sauces, but when i have/make/recieve paneer, it's generally in spinach and it's 90% spinach and 10% cheese. I think this ratio is important to note.
In france, noteably the cheese capitol, a whole meal may be wine, bread, and cheese. Yet, the amount of bread and cheese consumed is a much smaller portion than an american mac-n-cheese--no? also, they have a cheese course to their larger meals. This is the first time that cheese is introduced in that meal. Although they use creams in their sauces--and butters--most of their coursed-out meals tend to be meat, veggies, and cheese comes last, so the servings are small. in fact, all of the servings are small. the ratios almost resemble those of the indian meals above.
It is also important to note italy, which is famous for it's cuisine--no? they, too, traditionally use very little cheese. pasta is often a side dish to a meat dish and a vegetable dish--both of which may be drenched in olive oil. Cheese is used as a condiment--again in very small portions. Many meals that we think of as 'traditional italian' today are actually american inventions--pizza, for example in it's current american construct is actually a simple flat bread in italy, with a few 'goodies' baked in, usually a bit of cheese, some tomato slices, sardines, olives, rosemary, etc. fettuccini alfredo is likely an american invention, as are stuffed shells in a variety of forms. In truth, amazingly, italians eat very little pasta and bread! and very rarely do they eat cheese at this great level. While they have a wide variety of cheeses, like with france and india--these prized foods are not eaten in the portions that americans consume.
it may also be important to note how this plays a part in one's budget. My husband and i tend to buy very expensive cheese. First, we seek out local raw cheese makers. THis often is much more expensive than a bag of shredded kraft. it's a small amount--certainly only a few ozes--which we eat over the course of a week. we generally have two or three kinds of cheeses on hand--and i often buy traditional, imported cheeses from denmark, italy, and france. I make sure that all of them are raw in origin too.
i used to have a great deal of lactose intolerance, but once i started eating cheese in the right portions (which isn't much at all), and eating cheese that was traditionally made from whole, raw ingredients, i discovered that i had little to no constipation at all. Now, i'm only constipated when i eat commercial cheese--when out to dinner. THis is because they're not using the cheese that i use, and often have too great a quantity in the food.
If you have any other questions or concerns. . .please don't hesitate to ask. Also, i have various source materials, if you are interested. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Actually Tourist, Chinese people do drink milk...but they drink in the daytime. There are some rules, if you will, about why the Chinese and other cultures don't drink cold drinks on hot days or cold drinks period. Using this analogy, from Bob Flaw's "The Tao of healthy eating", it is simple and crucial to understand that the digestive process, according to Chinese medicine, consists of first creating a 100 degree soup in the stomach, remembering that body temperature is 98.6 degrees F. Whatever facilitates the creation of such a 100 degree soup in the stomach benefits digestion and whatever impedes or impairs the creation of a 100 degree soup in the stomach impedes or impairs digestion. This is basically true even from a western medical perspective. Most of the insights and principals of Chinese dietary theory and therapy are logical extensions of this commonsense and irrefutable truth.
Anyway, highly nutritious foods, such as dairy products, meats, nuts, eggs, oils, and fats are strongly capable of supplementing the body's yin fluids and substances. However, in excess, they generate a superabundance of body fluids which become pathologic dampness. Although to some this may appear a paradox, it has to do with healthy yin in excess becoming evil or pathological yin or dampness, phlegm, and turbidity.
It is also easy to see that certain combinations are even worse than their individual constituents. Ice cream is a dietary distaster. It is too sweet, too creamy, and too cold. Ice cream is a very, very dampening food. Pizza is a combination of tomato sauce, cheese and wheat. All of these foods tend to be dampening and this effect is made even worse if greasy additions, such as pepperoni and sausage, are added. Tomato sauce bears a few more words. It is the condensed nutritive substances of a number of tomatoes. Therefore it can be especially dampening. In the same way, drinking fruit juices can be very dampening. Fruit and vegetable juices are another relatively modern addition to the human diet. Prior to the advent of refrigeration, juices would turn into wine or vinegar within days. Therefore, when they were available in traditional societies, they were an infrequent treat. Now we have access to tropical fruits and juices thanks to refrigeration and interstate and intercontinental transportation. However, we should bear in mind that we would not eat 4-6 oranges in a single sitting nor every day. When we drink a glass of orange juice, tomato juice, apple juice, or carrot juice, that is exactly what we are doing. We are drinking the nutritive essence of not one but a number of fruits or vegetables. This over-nutrition typically results in the formation of pathogenic dampness and phlegm. This is the main culprit of why small babies and toddlers have running noses....they literally damage their spleens with dampness causing foods that their bodies cannot handle. |
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| regarding those baby diets. . .i've been researching this a lot, mostly reflecting on the advent of extreme allergies and it's relationship to food introduction.
according to a great deal of my research (which started at weston a price and moved on from there), traditionally a baby's diet was entirely human breast milk for the first 4 months of it's life--usually nursing on cue. human breast milk has the highest fat content of all mammalian milks, and thereby the lowest sugar content per volumn. with this breast milk comes a number of growth hormones, vitamins and minerals, and antibodies to help fend off disease.
but the importance of this nursing doesn't end with the breast milk itself. In fact, there has been a great deal of information out there regarding the emotional an dother aspects of nursing--but what i find particularly intreguing in relationship to infant health, is head position while eating. When being fed by way of a bottle, the head position is generally down and back, as opposed to the poised, upward position of th ehead while nursing. This position means a lot. Recognizing that the mouth, nose, throat, and ears are all connected tubes, liquid moving into the head at a downward position is gonig to find it's way into the ears and nose of the infant. The ear canals have their own natural bacterial flora, which is establishing itself during infancy. If the milk or other liquid finds it's way into this warm, dark space where bacteria are growing, this provides the necessary sugars for bacterial overpopulation--therefore bacterial infections! Nursing tends to decrease the amount of ear infections that infants suffer. Some exclusively breast fed infants have avoided infant and early childhood ear infections altogether!
After the first four months, infants are traditionally fed high fat, high protien, and low or no-carbohydrate foods. In most traditional societies, this is either in the form of a meat based broth, milk or yogurt from another animal, or egg yolks (as the whites tend to be allergen producing because of the nature of the protiens). Of course, the predominence of the infant's diet is still breastmilk, as nursing on cue is still practiced (and likely will be practiced anywhere from 3-6 years depending upon the self-weaning age of the child. The WHO recommends at least 2 years of nursing for all children, and more for children in developing nations who have limited access to fresh water sources and nutrient-rich food sources). As the child ages, month-to-month, food introduction follows an interesting pattern. It begins with the high fat foods (milk, meat broths ot shredded/dissolved meats, and egg yolks). Then, it moves into the earily digestable fruits and vegetables. Then, it will begin to move into the grain family. Often, the child is well over 2 years old before the process of eating grains is introduced (traditionally).
Compare this to the modern child's diet. Many children are not given breast milk--and are in fact separated from their mother's immediately after birth to be kept in other rooms of the hospital and for various inspections and immunizations. It is within the first few moments past birth that the infant has the greatest awareness and desire for it's mother, and it is most likely to learn how to nurse properly within these first few minutes to hours (if continually held, this provides emotional security and this then supports the nursing process as an aspect of emotional and physical nurturing). Often, if a child cannot learn to nurse--which takes practice after the child has been removed from the mother--then the child is bottle fed. This of course changes the head position--which has those health effects mentioned above--and also may change the nutrient structure of what the child is consuming.
some infants display a strinking reaction to all milk--an allergic reation. I wondered where this may have come from--why would a baby from it's own mother be allergic to it's own, natural food? it simply didn't make sense. Until i learned about collostrum. This is the 'pre milk' sort of substance that is first introduced into the baby's system in that first nursing. Many women are not able to nurse within the first hour of birth--the time when collostrum is most present. Often, they are resting in a hospital bed while the baby is in a nursery somewhere else. the introduction of collostrum 'kick starts' the baby's digestive system, enabling it to recieve whole human milk--it's most perfect food. Without this 'kick start,' many children develop allegies to milk because it was so sharply introduced into their systems.
the substitute, then, for many children is soy formula. made of a slurry of processed soy beans, corn oil, and sugar (often in the disasterous form of high fructose corn syrup), the child is then introduced to the grain family immediately. At about 4 months, many children--milk-fed, human milk-fed or soy fed--are given a grain-based, fortified cereal. This is often made of wheat. So, you haev a child on grains (soy--as a bean, is related to grains; corn oil and corn syrp--both grains; and then wheat-based cereal). Then, later they are given baby food that may be meat and grains, veggies, and fruits (often overprocessed and also fortified and sometimes with added preservatives). Often, western children are weaned from breastmilk at 6 months, if not less. It's rare for a child to recieve human breast milk post 9 months to 1 year of age in our society.
It is no wonder to me that a child who is not introduced to foods in proper order will gain allergies to them. I know many children for whom gluten is a serious allergy, nuts are a serious allergy (because of the soy, as well as other additives that are made from nuts and put into foods, including seasonings), milk is a serious allergy. I believe that it may be a matter of improper food introduction during digestion that causes this problem.
I have noticed of children who are nursed until natural weaning (without aid of bottles) and are introduced to food in a structured, traditional manner (and the model that i researched most was the chinese model, because they have the most information), are less likely to become sick (such as the runny noses and colds that you mention) and were less likely to develop allergies to common foods, even very healthy foods (such as human breastmilk--which we were made to eat!). Most of the children whom i know or know of who have been raised in this fashion--with attention to their dietary needs and food introduction, have had few, if any childhood illnesses--including things such as chicken pox! Some theorize this may be because the mother's antibodies provide the best vaccination for the disease, and the structured, healthy diet of whole foods in a normal progression of introduction helps build a strong body and immune system in the child.
in a related note, there have been a number of testimonials and other research coming out of ayurvedic hospitals in india where people who have struggled with life long digestive disorder and food sensitivities and allergies have been completely healed (cured) through a process of fasting, then whole fresh foods (freshly cooked/perpared; including raw milk products), with specialized herbs, with ayurvedic massage and yoga and meditation. one woman, who had not had milk since that first attempt at infancy, was able to return home on a whole foods, vegetarian diet and consume raw milk and cheese, as well as many grains (such as rice) that she had had sensitivities too. Essentially, the ayruvedic doctors were able to undo her problem through a good fast (which included a lot of intestinal cleansing via massage, etc), then reset her system by following a specific order of food introduction! Amazing!
it's something that i find so very fascinating. particularly since, eventually, i want to have children--so i think it's good to know. Right now, we're planning on at least 7 years of stay at home mom work. 3-4 years between children. it's likely, though, that i'll homeschool. so, i guess my 20-some-odd classes a week won't be maintained then. |
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| Yo Zoe!
Right on, on the nursing issue. Both my monkeys nursed until year one. Never had ear infections, but also no family history of ear infections either. You'll be happy to know that most moms I have met are nursing their babies now. At least out west. In fact, the doctors and hospitals are encouraging it again. It is now, in my environment, a very small minority that bottle feed exclusively. I have friend out east who say the east coast is a little slower on the change over.
It is also interesting to watch your child manage his/her own diet. By that I mean, you introduce recommended foods (over and over in some cases) and they either eat it or they don't. I have observed that mine tend to "power up" on whatever their body needs at the time. One day only spinach, the next only grains, etc. They will also overwhelm your plate at the table if they are ready to eat something that you have not offered them. For example, as I have mentioned before, my older son hates meat, we don't really expect him to eat it, so we didn't really introduce the baby to it. Then one night my husband had a steak and the baby stole his bone from his plate and was in ecstasy slurping up the greasy meat juice.
The children I see around me with "food allergies" usually have a neurotic parent who can't breast feed or their parent has had a family history of severe allergies. Children do go through a period of getting used to foods. Berries are notorious for cause an allergic rash or face flush if given too early in life. It is a big issue in parenting right now. Doctors recommend the safest diet, which may not make sense to some people. Plus, (a whole different topic) I find that my generation can be kind of lost with mothering. We rely on research instead of instinct. And, many of us don't have a close extended family to help us through with the wisdom of mothering. My own mother, for example, openly admits that she has "been there, done that" and leaves me to my own devices.
My point got all bungled up, I guess I was just relating my two cents.
Also, is Farmer's Cheese considered raw cheese? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bob Flaws wrote an excellent book called "Keeping Children Healthy". It is not that complicated and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the human body system. I used this book with my daughter and have recommended it to several people - especially Asians that are here in America...as they are totally confused with our American culture of eating and why their children are so screwed up! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Farmer's cheese is not really raw cheese unless you get it straight from the farmer and it has been minimally (sp?) processed. I sometimes eat "Pot cheese" which comes straight from the diary...it actually is much heavier than Horizon's Organic Cottage Cheese and is harder for me to digest. It really all depends on how the dairy farmer makes it, and how much rennet from the cow they put in it. Some of the organic dairy farmers use a vegetable rennet which is much easier to handle and is considered to be vegetarian. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Don't get me started on baby diets, nursing and all the darn juice! I am in 100% agreement with everything written so far and yes, the most neurotic parents have the sickest kids, by far. as a former La Leche League leader and lactation consultant, I am appalled by the decline in breastfeeding. In the early 80's it was on the upswing and then went zooming down again. Can't we do anything on this continent without violent action/reaction?   Now with dealing with babies in a child care setting, I get the chance to be equally appalled by the food chldren are given. I mean, the above mentioned neurotic parent has her kid on horrendously expensive and wretched smelling (and I am sure, tasting) formula because of "milk and soy allergy" but gives the poor kid processed blueberry "dessert" with corn starch and sugar on a daily basis because blueberries are trendy as antioxidants.  They may be great antioxidants but you don't feed a child under one year berries folks! And maybe get rid of the $%#@ corn starch and sugar and that nasty ear infection will clear up a bit.... Oh dear, I got myself on a roll..... time to stop! |
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| bigmomma:
in my area, there are a lot of people who are very strange to me. people who have one baby and 9 strollers. people who have two drivers and 4 cars. you know what i mean?
anyway, a lot of these mothers are really, really odd to me. having a baby was a process of getting another commodity. First, we have fertility treatments (even if not necessary). Then, we have a pain-free hospital birth (where they give you epidural drugs before you're in heavy labor) or we have an elected ceasarean. Then, we have a nanny or 3 (i know one woman who has 3 children and 5 nannies). Babies are fed formula from a bottle by the nanny. i find it to be a really strange way to raise a child.
then, there's the other kind of mom in our area--the hippy, crunchy, granola mom. These moms tend to be very neurotic. They're just neurotic in a different way. They're extremely alternative with their kids. They believe in their theory of raising a child--and for that reason won't even let their children 'hang out' with children who are raised differenty. I know a woman who lives in an old house in a new neighborhood (common in this area is for a farm to die--the farmhouse stays, and then new McMansions are built all around the house). The neighboring children are the same age as hers, but go to public schools (she sends hers to waldorff). Her children don't watch TV, etc. She wll not allow her children to play with the other children in the neighborhood because she doesn't want them 'harmed or tainted' by those other 'ideologies.'
now, i have no problem with kids having no tv or waldorf education or whatever else. i'm really inspired by waldorf myself. but, i find the exclusivity to be really weird--sheltered i guess. it's a bit much for my tastes. And each sets of these moms have one thing in common: they believe in only one right way, and there way is the right way. Either you consume to high-heaven or your alternative to high-heaven. It's kinda strange.
and then they come to yoga class. it's no wonder i'm confused. i'm so not an extremist (even though i am zealous!).
And cyndi's right about farmer's cheese. If you're looking for raw cheese (which usually uses microbial or vegetable rennet), then you'll need to read the labels. First, simply look for the term 'raw cheese' and this usually indicates that it is raw. In the US, you may be able to find Organic Valley, which is a good company. Second, if you cannot find raw cheese, look to getting international cheeses. Look for ingredients that say "whole" or 'Unpasturized' (rare) and sometimes "raw," you may also look for 'whole cream.' these elements usually indicate that they are made with whole, raw milk and cream.
I'm an avid label reader. and, if something isn't on the label (such as the type of rennet), then i call the farm or company and ask what kind of rennet they use. For european cheeses, msot of them now use microbial rennet (mad cow disease fears, etc), but if the cheese is in a process that takes over 100 years (and some do) then the cheese today was made from the cow stomach of yester-year. So, i don't eat a whole lot of over 25 year old cheeses myself. In fact, most are 5 years or less. I tend to prefer these soft-hard and hard cheeses to soft and soft-old cheeses.
Cyndi:
thanks for that book recommendation! I'm definately going to pick it up. Right now, i'm reading Parenting from the Inside Out which my aunt recommended. she's a psychologist and this is one of her favorite works on the subject.
Tourist:
i don't know why no one listens to me on the vegetarian board or in my life. i mean, i'll mention the league (There's a great book from the league about modern birthing practices, when they're appropriate and when they're not--somehting like GOod Birth, Healthy Birth or something?), i'll mention a book or research, and people *freak* like i'm trying to force them into something.
perhaps this goes to the issue that cyndi mentioned in the 'other' vegetarianism thread--about people being judgemental and people feeling judged. I'm just offering information and ideas--i don't care about much else. i just want people to have information and make the best decision for themselves.
if a parent says to me, 'my child was diagnosed with ADD/ADHD,' i'll say 'i'm so sorry to hear that. have you read or heard of this research about nutritional treatments? biofeedback? and other therapies? i also have a friend who runs a support group for parents who use these alternative treatments for their children with ADD/ADHD--would you like her phone number? i know that she'd be happy to discuss all of these various issues with you, regardless of what you decide is the best choice for your child.' Usually, all i get is bristles: "i think we're using ritilin' and everything gets chilly.
i wasn't judging anyone, i just wanted to provide a resource for her--and alternatives to explore--in case ritilin wasn't the right answer. And even if it was, a support group of other parents who are helping their children manage ADD/ADHD can certainly be helpful, at least i would think so.
So, i find that to talk about reproductive issues--even fertility awareness method in lieu of chemical birth control (which as more problems than people even know!)--and baby care, people just freak out! it's so crazy to me. i really don't understand it at all.
ah well. maybe i'm juts too eager. |
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| For the record, the majority of the world is lactose intolerant. I am to a certain degree. Asians, Africans, and anyone who isn't of Northern European ancestry....all of these groups are typically lactose intolerant. I learned this in an anthropology class. The majority of the world loses their production of lactase (the enzyme that digest lactose) after the first year of life. There are evolutionary reasons for this. This is why Asians don't usually consume dairy. Cheese, however, loses it's lactose in the cheesemaking process. I can eat it. Lots of it.
I've gotten really lazy in the food department. Cheese is quick and easy and that's why I scarf so much of it down. It's not really about protein. We get enough protein from plant sources. Most Americans think they need much more protein than they actually do. You can be a vegan and still bodybuild.
Soy cheese is horrid. I'm going to just try to expand my food horizons a bit more.
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| One more thing, if you can get Cabot's brand cheese it has NO animal rennet. This makes it completely vegetarian. Tree Of Life also has wonderful organic cheeses with no animal rennet. |
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| Soy cheese is terrible, and low fat cheese not much better.(two things that should never be low fat: cheese and peanut butter) I don't bother. i use a little nutritional yeast mixed into salsa, pasta sauce or into a little silken tofu and blended upif I want the flavor. but If I was offered a nice peice of soft brie and some merlot...
I haven't had milk in so long the smell turns my stomach. that I find strange.
I don't have kids, but I can imagine it must be hard with the sheer volume of information thrown at you...feed them this, don't feed them that, etc.
I like to "live close to the earth" I recycle, reuse, eat organic, unproccessed, vegetarian foods,volunteer within the community and and generally try to leave the least amount of impact I can.I feel better physically and I have a clear conscience because I do what I can to reduce animal suffering and pollution. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| zoebird - I have all but given up on giving information to people. Around yoga issues, if the person knows I teach and they ask me something, I usually answer in the broadest way. "Does yoga help arthritis?" "Oh yes, I have many students who have been helped by practicing yoga." "Really?" "Uh-huh." And it usually ends there. If they ask more, I'll tell more. If they don't know I teach/practice, I do a lot of "hmmmm...ok" Often someone else will pop in and say I do yoga so that gives a way to bring it into the conversation, but otherwise, not so much. Saves time. Save the "chilly" moments  One of the things I have learned with age is to keep quiet  |
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| Thanks all for the cheese tips.
As for the spectrum of mothers. One thing in common ----it's all about them. The baby as the fashion accessory or the baby as the statement for social change. These parents don't realize that by age 10, their precious little darlings are going to start to see their hypocrisy, avoid their parents like the plague and spend the rest of their teenage years hating the philosophies that were drilled into them (i.e. money and status are everything, you must suffer and be different to make a difference). Same thing for the parents with kids diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. Most of the time, they just want to have the kid fixed (who probably only needs time with them and a trip to the park now and then) without having to feel at fault or having to add anything extra to their day. The, "make the pain go away, but please don't make me have to change" mentality.
Tourist, you are right about the silence. Works great in counseling. People like to come up with their own ideas. They will ask you if they are truly interested, but still don't expect them to change. I hate whiners. Probably why I'm staying at home now instead of sitting in the counseling office listening to the same 3 problems day after day.
Jaded, I know . . . |
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hi zoe bird!
i would really like to do a vulcan mind meld with you. you are a walking encyclopedia of great information! i WISH i could retain half of what i read. thanks for sharing so much.
zoebird - 2005-08-05 1:42 AM
I'm an avid label reader. and, if something isn't on the label (such as the type of rennet), then i call the farm or company and ask what kind of rennet they use. For european cheeses, msot of them now use microbial rennet (mad cow disease fears, etc), but if the cheese is in a process that takes over 100 years (and some do) then the cheese today was made from the cow stomach of yester-year. So, i don't eat a whole lot of over 25 year old cheeses myself. In fact, most are 5 years or less. I tend to prefer these soft-hard and hard cheeses to soft and soft-old cheeses.
A little more info on label reading:
Some companies will specifically list `rennet' or `rennin' while others might just say `enzymes.' Other terms to look out for include `chymosin' and `rennase.' For those that list `enzymes,'these are most likely animal enzymes. Even some cottage cheese and sour cream products contain rennet. If a company is using microbial enzymes, it will probably state specifically `vegetable enzymes' or `vegetable rennet.'
Have you seen a Nutritional Yeast Cookbook? Years ago I would have laughed if someone told me that one day I would be making a cheese substitute from N.Y., but hey, it tastes pretty good!
The New Farm Vegetarian Cookbook has an excellent recipe for nutritional yeast cheese and also a vegan cream cheese.
NUTRITIONAL YEAST "CHEESE"from The New Farm Vegetarian Cookbook
1/2 cup nutritional yeast flakes*1/2 cup flour 1/2 tsp salt 1/2 tsp garlic powder 2 cups water 1/4 cup margarine 1 tsp wet mustard
Mix dry ingredients in saucepan. Whisk in water.Cook over medium heat, whisking, until it thickens and bubbles. Cook 30 seconds, then remove from heat,whip in margarine and mustard. It will thicken as it cools, but will thin when heated, or when water is added.Makes 3 cups.
Note: If you'd like to lower the fat content of this recipe,use a tablespoon of margarine. This works just as well. It can also be prepared without using any margarine at all.
Variation: For a richer stretchier sauce that's good on pizza,substitute for the flour: 1/4 cup cornstarch and 2 Tbsp Flour. Instead of margarine, whip in 1/2 cup of oil after it cooks, and add as much as 1 cup of water at the end, or as needed to make a thick, smooth sauce that pours easily. Pour it on pizza and for the last few minutes of baking, put pizza under broiler for a few minutes to form a stretchy, golden brown speckled skin.
Nutritional Yeast comes in both flakes and powdered form. Theinformation and recipes included here pertain to nutritional yeast flakes. They have a yellow or gold color, and make a tasty topping for vegetables, salads and popcorn, and can be used to make many delicious gravies, casseroles and sauces.
MACARONI AND "CHEESE" CASSEROLE from The New Farm Vegetarian Cookbook
Cook 3-1/2 cups elbow macaroni. In a saucepan,melt 1/2 cup margarine over low heat. Beat in 1/2 cup flour with a wire whisk and continue to beat over a medium flame until the mixture(called a roux) is smooth and bubbly. Whip in 3-1/2 cups boiling water, 1-1/2 tsp. salt, 2 Tbsp.soy sauce, 1-1/2 tsp. garlic powder, and a pinch of turmeric, beating well. The sauce should cook until it thickens and bubbles. Then whip in 1/4 cup oil and 1 cup nutritional yeast flakes.
Mix part of the sauce with the noodles and put in casserole dish, and pour a generous amount of sauce on top. Sprinkle top with paprika, and bake for 15 minutes in a 350 degree oven. Put in broiler for a few minutes until "cheese" sauce gets stretchy and crisp. Serves 5.
Although this is a good substitute and I am trying to limit my dairy (NO RAW AVAILABLE HERE!) every once in awhile I splash out on some beautiful imported cheese. Total luxury and a treat I just love! Yum, now i want cheese!
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Forum Administrator
| zoebird - 2005-08-04 9:01 AM
In france, noteably the cheese capitol, a whole meal may be wine, bread, and cheese. Yet, the amount of bread and cheese consumed is a much smaller portion than an american mac-n-cheese--no? also, they have a cheese course to their larger meals. This is the first time that cheese is introduced in that meal. Although they use creams in their sauces--and butters--most of their coursed-out meals tend to be meat, veggies, and cheese comes last, so the servings are small. in fact, all of the servings are small. the ratios almost resemble those of the indian meals above.
This is the crux of the issue. I am French. I drink wine every day, eat FATTY cheeses quite often, and eat as much bread or cow as I want and I am too tired from my day job to work out at night. You would be amazed at how little I weigh. Why? It's all about moderation, and not feeling compelled to wipe your plate clean AT the dinner table.
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| Miabella:
i think that what you learned in your athropology class is essentially wrong--since it gives an age, age 1. most babies in traditional societies wean between ages 3 and 4, which would mean that they would have 2 or 3 years of lactose intolerance when consuming breast milk. it simply doesn't make sense.
but, it does make sense that certain populations would have a greater or lesser tolerance for lactose based on their uses of these products. it is interesting to note that of agrarian societies in africa (who eat mostly vegetables, fruits, nuts, fish, and game), that they have less tolerance for milk. Yet the nomadic societies (who eat blood, milk, and meat, with a few tubers now and again) have no lactose intolerance. Of course, these people are often consuming raw milk that still has it's own enzymatic structure.
tourist:
i agree, in general. usually, i keep my mouth shut--at least i'm learning to. i've done that about vegetarianism for years. usually i only get called 'judgemental' when i'm out to eat with other yogins--one or two who don't know me--and while they're having the local brew and a streak, i order the hummus and salad with an iced tea. then i get the 'you're judging us' lecture/accusation, even though all i did was order hummus. Obviously, if i had a big problem with people eating meat (or eating meat around me), i wouldn't be married or go outside anywhere! LOL
so, sometimes i just get a big projection!
easternsun:
i made a number of recipes with NY, but i never found them to be satisfying. they always tasted weird to me. My favorite NY recipe though is 'french toast.' You take almond or other nut milk (vanilla flavor is nice, even if you make it home-made), and then add pie spices and nutritional yeast. dip the bread and then cook it on a hot skillet. i would always serve it with a fresh-made blueberry reduction (the basic of my cobbler mix) which was so nice. i haven't made that in a zillion years.
i do have a crazy garbage brain, admittedly.
bigmomma:
status is a weird thing. seeking status is beyond me. i tend to value people for their talents, not their ideologies or their stuff. ah well.
piel:
portion size is everything--as is movement. according to a lot of the research that i've read, people in european cities tend to walk more than americans (even in american cities) because of the layout of the city. in NYC, for example, people often walk 5 miles a day (thats what, nearly 8-10 K?). in european cities, people tend to walk nearly double that--because they have shorter work days and pretty much walk everywhere. So, it's portion control and just living movement--as opposed to working out--that most europeans do.
while i was in denmark (only 18 days), my husband and i walked an average of 12-14 miles a day (15 or more Km per day). I ate 3 meals: small breakfast (usually juice and pastry); lunch (beautiful salads, bread, cheese); snack--ice cream!; and dinner--again beautiful vegetarian fair that was veggies, cheese, bread. I actually *lost* 4 lbs on that trip. LOL i thought i was surely over eating, etc, because of how much i was walking. I was surprized when i got home to learn that i had lost weight! LOL
it's really quite an amazing lifestyle. it makes looking at NYC worthwhile. of course, i can't afford to live there. . .but ah well. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Piel - 2005-08-05 6:52 AM
This is the crux of the issue. I am French. I drink wine every day, eat FATTY cheeses quite often, and eat as much bread or cow as I want and I am too tired from my day job to work out at night. You would be amazed at how little I weigh. Why? It's all about moderation, and not feeling compelled to wipe your plate clean AT the dinner table.
You know what Piel, that makes more sense than anything. Really, this vegetarian thing and analysing food and all that just drives me insane sometimes. Sure, I study the TCM aspects of food and the medical benefits, but...the best time in my life, when I was at the best weight and felt really free and good about myself was when I didn't worry about it (too much), and when I ate small moderate amounts of good healthy food...that included cheese, meat and wine. In the south especially, people ate HUGE amounts of food on their plates(as in more than 1 plate of food), most still do and that is why 65% or maybe more, Americans - Humans are fat!!! It's not about the food as much as the amount they are eating and they sit around and do nothing to burn it off. I lost more weight and maintained a perfect body weight when I was a Secretary in an office, eating Chef's Salad's, drinking wine during a 3-hr lunch, typing and running around the office delivering mail, and sometimes even forgetting to eat lunch that day, I'd make it up at dinner.
Anyway, we all know that every BODY is different and has different needs based on constitution, but the above principals are still the same. When you work hard, burn calories, you eat to replace what you burned, no more. Today we have a food smorgasboard on every corner - it blasts us and we don't have any control and we certainly don't make the correct food choices and/or combinations.
Thanks Peil for reminding me of that. |
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| Zoebird:
I'm not sure whether the professor actually stated age one. I know that after people end their breastfeeding phase the production of lactase wanes considerably.
I also know that anthropological studies have proven that most of the world is unable to consume lactose successfully. Some African nations have kept milk in their diet. Some European nations, also. Evolution has allowed these peoples to keep some level of lactase in their digestive systems.
It's odd that we are consuming milk from another species. If my cat had kittens would I have a burning urge to nurse from her to drink her milk? I don't think so. Then why is it acceptable that we are drinking milk from other mammals? It doesn't matter if it's raw or not, we're not supposed to be drinking it. |
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| miabella:
the research that i have done on my own--athropologically and otherwise--demostrates that humans can consume the dairy products of another animal throughout their lives, even though i agree that the ability to convert or digest lactose in adulthood (or after weaning) decreases considerably. This is why most dairy products AFTER milk are actually various forms of milk products--meaning cheese, yogurts, kefirs, and the products that are predominently fat such as butter and cream. It isn't 'just a few' cultures that use these products--but many cultures across every contentent. this is also evident through anthropological research.
like any study, anthropology is up for debate or discussion on the interpretation of the information. Since i have read and seen and studied many aspects of human nutrition and various diets through the world (with emphasis on traditional diets), it is striking to me that many communities, on every contentent, consume some form of dairy product. This seems to indicate that it is both healthy and 'natural' (for lack of a better term) for humans to consume these products.
Cats, if given the opportunity, will consume dairy products. Animals, whenever given the opportunity in my experience, will consume dairy products. It doesn't seem that we're all that special as compared to the animal kingdom. Whether or not other animals wish to give their milk to other species is up for debate. But, there is also a great deal of testimonial evidence of some mothers of one species feeding the babies of other species with her milk--dogs feeding kittens, cats feeding rabbits, and even wolves feeding human infants (romulus and remus, for whatever it's worth! LOL).
these products are 'raw' meaning non-pasturized, not refering to them being straight milk. the fact of them being raw is particularly important because ti is what makes the lactose more digestable for weaned animals. the enzymatic structure continues to break down the lactose. the use of bacteria and fungus further breaks down the lactose--making the resulting product completely digestable.
there are lots of historical and anthropological theories with which i disagree. and yet, there are many with which i agree. i'm simply in another argument than you or your professor--one that other students and other professors hold. no big deal. that's science, that's social science, that's humanities. that's life.
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Why be a Vegetarian?
